Dura Ace 9100 - 53\39 to 53\36 conversion - Success!

daniel_b

UPDATE - Posted the outcome on page 2

Morning all,

I am about to take delivery of a bike with a 53\39 setup.
It does have a 11-30 on the rear, but personally I would prefer an 11-28 for less gaps.

A google would suggest that it is not recommended, but has been carried out by multiple people, with seemingly no bad effects.

Secondly, I am also tempted to replace with an absolute black 36T chainring, any idea if that would cause no\more issues?

I'm not wanting to discuss the merits\snake oil aspect of them, merely whether it might cause any issues, over and above a round 36 - would shifting quality be decreased, as in it's not paired with it's bigger brother?

Thanks

Dan

Vino'sGhost

you answered your own question, its not recommended but seems to work ok. can you not get the shop to stick a 52/36 on and save you the cost hassle and possible chain drop issues?

daniel_b

Vino'sGhost wrote:

you answered your own question, its not recommended but seems to work ok. can you not get the shop to stick a 52/36 on and save you the cost hassle and possible chain drop issues?

That's a good call - I will ask the question!

I fully expect them to ask me where to go in a polite manner, but worth a crack.

mamil314

Mind the BCD

daniel_b

mamil314 wrote:

Mind the BCD

Ta, had spotted they are 110, and 4 bolt critically!

daniel_b

Yeh they can't swap it, but could fit one (Standard 9100 36T) for me, before sending, and bung the 39 in the box.

Might just do that, so I don't have to start by removing cranksets, never feels quite right with a brand new bike for some reason, and this from someone who has built up more than one bike.

daniel_b

Ok, so they are not prepared to either swap the crankset (Understandable) and as Shimano won't approve it, they also won't fit a 36 for me.

My winter bike is a 50\34 with 11-32, though the gaps do annoy me a bit I must admit - lowest gear = 1.06 gear ratio
My CR1 has a 52\36 with an 11\28, and that is a pretty good combo for most circumstances - lowest gear = 1.29 gear ratio

So this will be a 53\39 with 11-30 - lowest gear = 1.30 gear ratio - so very little difference to my CR1.

So I have 4 options as I see it.

Stick with it as it is, and see how it goes (Downside is I then have a used chainset so less saleable)
Replace the 39 with a 36 (Seems this should work) for £35 for a 9100 inner.
Buy an 11-32 (1.22 gear ratio) (or even 34 (1.15 gear ratio)) cassette for circa £45 (Seems the RD will take it with some prudent winding in of the B screw)

Out of those, I'm most inclined, I think, to try it stock, and then as the value is reduced anyway, to pop a 36 on, and see how it goes.

I'm thinking if I do that, it will also give me the option of swapping to an 11-28 (I would love a 12-28 really) which would give me the same lowest gear as my CR1, and also mean a lot less nasty gaps.

EDIT: EEK, they do make a 9100 12-28!
Shame they allegedly creak
How frustrating they do not make a 12-28 Ultegra 8000 one.
I have Shimano wheels, so no campag alternatives - could look at SRAM I guess.

shirley_basso

Just use a 105 or ultegra one.

Or buy a 36T inner ring and do it yourself.

daniel_b

Shirley Basso wrote:

Just use a 105 or ultegra one.

Or buy a 36T inner ring and do it yourself.

I'd deffo go Ultegra I think, it's around a 3rd of the price.
And I would fit the 36 myself no worries.

Perhaps I should take the cassette off as soon as it arrives, and can then sell it for an amount that would cover a new cassette, and the 36T ring - guess I could also sell the unused 39 then as well.

cld531c

Might be worth waiting til it arrives, spec on mine as ordered was 52/36 - it actually came with a 50/34 but I didnt realise for a bit as Im used to 53/39 and just assumed that was why is felt weird!
Plan to swap my 34 for a 36 when I can be bothered

daniel_b

cld531c wrote:

Might be worth waiting til it arrives, spec on mine as ordered was 52/36 - it actually came with a 50/34 but I didnt realise for a bit as Im used to 53/39 and just assumed that was why is felt weird!
Plan to swap my 34 for a 36 when I can be bothered

LOL, that is weird!

The reviews read of it, frustratingly state 52\36, but they clearly deemed to change it, and the shop have confirmed it does have the 53\39.

I think it would be ok with the 30T on the rear, but I'd rather have a tighter rear cassette than that, especially on such a nice bike, I think it would detract a bit.

cld531c

Daniel B wrote:

cld531c wrote:

Might be worth waiting til it arrives, spec on mine as ordered was 52/36 - it actually came with a 50/34 but I didnt realise for a bit as Im used to 53/39 and just assumed that was why is felt weird!
Plan to swap my 34 for a 36 when I can be bothered

LOL, that is weird!

The reviews read of it, frustratingly state 52\36, but they clearly deemed to change it, and the shop have confirmed it does have the 53\39.

I think it would be ok with the 30T on the rear, but I'd rather have a tighter rear cassette than that, especially on such a nice bike, I think it would detract a bit.

Agree, just a shame that you will have to start spending extra! What bike is it BTW???

Vino'sGhost

what kind of shop wont supply chainrings in the size you want?

A crap one thats for sure. just buy the chainrings and change them yourself. Ebay the 53/39 buy from a different shop in future

daniel_b

OK, so have ordered Ultegra R8000 11-28 cassette, and 9100 36T inner ring for £84 from Evans.

The stock dura ace cassette seems to go for £160 odd online, so should end up in profit as it were!

I don't want to jinx it quite yet (I've been burned before), as I won't have it until the beginning of next month.

In defence, they are not a dedicated bike shop perse, and I hear what you are saying, but.....
It's a fairly special bike
It's in short supply (Especially in a 54) - looks like it is a lot more popular that last years model
This place had one for sale in the (hopefully) right size for 33% off, which was a good chunk less than anywhere else.

The other place I was waiting for, had an ex demo version apparently coming up for sale this week just gone, and I subscribed to be alerted when it was ready, but seems like they struck a deal with someone, or an employee wanted it, as no e-mail ever came through, and it is no longer available - glad I did not hedge everything on that bike!

StillGoing

I think you'll find changing up on the front a bit hit and miss, or certainly not as smooth as Shimano normally is, as you've gone from a tooth gap of 14 to one of 17. The maximum recommended gap between teeth is 16.

daniel_b

philthy3 wrote:

I think you'll find changing up on the front a bit hit and miss, or certainly not as smooth as Shimano normally is, as you've gone from a tooth gap of 14 to one of 17. The maximum recommended gap between teeth is 16.

It is entirely possible I concur, I have 16T gaps on my other two bikes, 50\34 and 52\36, and presumably if any groupset can handle it with the least issue, it should be the dura ace!

I'll report back with an outcome anyway, might be useful to someone in the future.

I don't tend to shift cogs at the front that much tbh, and I'm prepared to take a bit more care about it when I do.

Evan's have already despatched, so just need to wait for the bike next month now.

StillGoing

Daniel B wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

I think you'll find changing up on the front a bit hit and miss, or certainly not as smooth as Shimano normally is, as you've gone from a tooth gap of 14 to one of 17. The maximum recommended gap between teeth is 16.

It is entirely possible I concur, I have 16T gaps on my other two bikes, 50\34 and 52\36, and presumably if any groupset can handle it with the least issue, it should be the dura ace!

I'll report back with an outcome anyway, might be useful to someone in the future.

I don't tend to shift cogs at the front that much tbh, and I'm prepared to take a bit more care about it when I do.

Evan's have already despatched, so just need to wait for the bike next month now.

You're not going to a gap of 16, you're going to a gap of 17.

daniel_b

Yes I know, that's what the 'it' referred to, as in outside the optimum, but if anything can handle that non optimum situation, it's likely to be dura ace.

There are multiple threads about running that combo.
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/horse-for-the-courses-shimano-53-36-for-criteriums-and-a-hill-climb-45139/

StillGoing

Daniel B wrote:

Yes I know, that's what the 'it' referred to, as in outside the optimum, but if anything can handle that non optimum situation, it's likely to be dura ace.

There are multiple threads about running that combo.
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/horse-for-the-courses-shimano-53-36-for-criteriums-and-a-hill-climb-45139/

I see. I'd be more inclined to lean the other way and believe that Dura Ace is likely to be the most sensitive to changes outside of the norm. But good luck with that.

daniel_b

philthy3 wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

Yes I know, that's what the 'it' referred to, as in outside the optimum, but if anything can handle that non optimum situation, it's likely to be dura ace.

There are multiple threads about running that combo.
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/horse-for-the-courses-shimano-53-36-for-criteriums-and-a-hill-climb-45139/

I see. I'd be more inclined to lean the other way and believe that Dura Ace is likely to be the most sensitive to changes outside of the norm. But good luck with that.

Thankyou very much, I will be sure to report back, for the benefit of others

daniel_b

So, it's been a long time coming, but the inaugral ride happened this Monday just gone.

Bl00dy hell it's fast, and also surprisingly comfortable, especially in the drops, which was a pleasant surprise.

So onto the shifting - I was a tad nervous, shifting between the 53 and the 36, but am delighted to report it shifted seamlessly, even better than the shift on my ultegra 6800 running 52\36, so REALLY pleased with that result.

The 11-28 Ultegra cassette on the rear was also perfectly up to the job, with no annoying gaps - although I did have a little bit of derailleur rub in the final two gears, so just needs a minor tweak I expect - will get it up on the workstand at some point and have a go.

cossyrush

I’m running 53/36 front rings with 11-30 with Di2 and it works well. The 11-30 means I can stay in the big ring longer.
It’s Ultegra not Dura-ace, but I ‘don’t think’ that’s makes a difference.
Depending on the inner ring you might need to file a curve on one of the flanges to get it to fit.
I’m also using a SS rear mech, the chain is maybe a little long for 36/11, but I’m never down there anyway.

gillo-1970

Hiya, I'm about tio do the same, and swap the 39 DA for a new 36, with a 53 big dog. Is it still all working okay? Anybody else? What about a small oval with this, anybody? Cheers!

itboffin

Ooo I like the idea of a 53/36

daniel_b

Gillo-1970 wrote:

Hiya, I'm about tio do the same, and swap the 39 DA for a new 36, with a 53 big dog. Is it still all working okay? Anybody else? What about a small oval with this, anybody? Cheers!

I'd say go for it mate, zero problems, shifts as well, if not better than my really well setup Ultegra 6800 FD, and that's a 52\36.

Checking on Strava, I have covered 331 miles, and I'll be adding on a further 70 miles this week, and riding 112 odd miles next weekend, so should clear 500.

I haven't lubed the chain once (WIll do before next weekend) and it's a KMC chain, not the original Dura Ace one, which I sold with the wheels and cassette.

In theory an oval should be fine, but not sure I would want to risk it.

I do have an oval 36 which I bought an age ago to fit to my CR1, thought it might assist with climbing, will get around to fitting it at some point, in fact will do so when I need to change the BB, which will likely be this winter.

P.S Loving the 'big dog' reference, whether it be intentional or a typo ;-)

itboffin wrote:

Ooo I like the idea of a 53/36

do it, do it, do it 8)