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105 vs Ultegra braking

gbsahne001gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
edited July 2018 in The workshop
Going from disc brakes to callipers, I'm finding the 105 callipers a little lacklustre (even with Swiss blue pads), would Ultegra callipers provide better braking or would it be a waste of money?
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  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    Waste of money. 105 rim calipers are very similar to Ultegra, main difference is weight I believe.
  • milemuncher1milemuncher1 Posts: 1,472
    There are a lot of variables, but If everything else is kept the same, and it’s a 5800 calliper versus a 6800
    calliper, there isn’t much in it.
  • gbsahne001gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
    Thanks, that's more or less what I thought.
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  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,430
    Make sure you have good, compressionless cable outers and good routing.
  • figbatfigbat Posts: 680
    You may find more benefit from setting them up than changing them. Toe angle, alignment with the rim, clearance from the rim etc. And cable quality/condition.
    Cube Reaction GTC Pro 29 for the lumpy stuff
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  • gbsahne001gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
    figbat wrote:
    You may find more benefit from setting them up than changing them. Toe angle Check, alignment with the rim Check, clearance from the rim Check etc. And cable quality/condition.

    Cables are OK, as is routing, but they are the OEM cables that came with the bike; inner & outers.

    Would changing these make a significant difference? I can't really it making that much of a difference.
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  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    It can make a fair sized difference, yup. If there is less friction on the cable run then it'll feel easier to squeeze the brakes. If the outer is uncompressible, then less of your squeeze is wasted compressing the outer....

    To be clear though, your 105 brake calipers, they are the current 5800 model and are being used with 11 speed 105 levers?

    Mixing and matching can give poor results. One of my bikes I'm using 5800 levers with some old 105 calipers (9 speed vintage) and the pull ratios have changed so although the brakes come on quickly I have to squeeze really hard to get effective braking.
  • gbsahne001gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
    TimothyW wrote:
    It can make a fair sized difference, yup. If there is less friction on the cable run then it'll feel easier to squeeze the brakes. If the outer is uncompressible, then less of your squeeze is wasted compressing the outer....

    To be clear though, your 105 brake calipers, they are the current 5800 model and are being used with 11 speed 105 levers?

    Mixing and matching can give poor results. One of my bikes I'm using 5800 levers with some old 105 calipers (9 speed vintage) and the pull ratios have changed so although the brakes come on quickly I have to squeeze really hard to get effective braking.

    No, the brakes are matched as part of the OEM spec; 5700 levers and calipers I believe.
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  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    Right. Well, you might notice an improvement moving to current generation brake calipers (5800/6800/r7000/r8000).

    They are of somewhat more substantial construction (so probably heavier) but most anecdotes point to improved performance (and I haven't found them wanting).

    Brake pull ratios are only slightly changed between 5700 and 5800 and I think Shimano regard them as compatible.
  • gbsahne001gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
    Went with a pair of R8000, which with the replacement front mech brought it into discount (BC) territory on CRC.

    A great improvement on the original 5700 callipers, so thanks for the input
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  • straasstraas Posts: 338
    I've got 105 on my commuter and ultegra on the weekend bike.

    I notice quite a substantial difference between the two to be honest, much more confidence downhill with the ultegra.
    FCN: 6
  • greenamex2greenamex2 Posts: 272
    Partially relevant/possibly of interest -

    I swapped out Tektro calipers (R540) for Dura-Ace R9100 (basically identical to Ultegra R8000 but with a titanium mounting bolt, got them discounted).

    The difference is -

    Dura-Ace - You slow down and have lots of feedback/control
    Tektro - You can watch the caliper flexing while to try to slow down to take you mind off what you are about to hit. They got a bit better with Swissstop BXP's but mostly just flexed more.

    There is a little debate on whether the calipers are compatible with the Tiagra 4600 levers...but the braking is so much better it is a fairly moot point.
  • fwgxfwgx Posts: 114
    I have 105 5800 calipers with Swisstop BXP's and they are fantastic - mostly down to the BXP's being awesome, but they're also better than the 5700's I had on the old bike..
    Felt Z75 (2015)
  • greenamex2greenamex2 Posts: 272
    fwgx wrote:
    I have 105 5800 calipers with Swisstop BXP's and they are fantastic - mostly down to the BXP's being awesome, but they're also better than the 5700's I had on the old bike..

    Now tempted to swap the pads over this weekend!
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