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Le Tour - bonus seconds?

larkimlarkim Posts: 2,263
edited July 2018 in Pro race
Wikipedia tells me that there are new bonus seconds "given to the first three riders to cross a specific kilometre of the race, determined in advance. It will affect the general classification, but not the points."

Are these the items marked "B" on the stage profiles online? I presume "to cross a specific kilometre" is just a clumsy way of saying "past a specific point".
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  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,895
    Yeah, it's the point marked by a yellow B. 3,2 and 1 seconds for the first three. I'm not entirely sure of the point of it.
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  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,263
    Seems insufficient seconds to make it interesting for the GC guys, though I suppose in a close race could accumulate to "something" for those teams / riders that are switched on.

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  • takethehighroadtakethehighroad Posts: 5,426
    It's only for the first 9 (flattish) stages.

    I would imagine the idea is to change the MJ around in the first week, but in reality will just result in Sagan getting and keeping it through bonuses.

    It does add a new dynamic, as it's so close to the finish, and shows the organisers are at least thinking of ways to make the race interesting
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  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,263
    Sagan's MJ time might be erased by the TTT though - in which case 3s here or there won't matter quite so much.
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  • Lanterne_RogueLanterne_Rogue Posts: 2,018
    You're all thinking about the impact on entirely the wrong end of the race.

    What it'll really do is catch out Lanterne Rouge competitors who've been smart enough to sneak out into the break (so they can justifiably soft pedal after they've been caught) but not smart enough to remember it's not supposed to be a race. Watch out for a load of sneaky shoves, pushes and convenient wheel changes to ensure their competitors soak up the bonus seconds.
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  • You're all thinking about the impact on entirely the wrong end of the race.

    What it'll really do is catch out Lanterne Rouge competitors who've been smart enough to sneak out into the break (so they can justifiably soft pedal after they've been caught) but not smart enough to remember it's not supposed to be a race. Watch out for a load of sneaky shoves, pushes and convenient wheel changes to ensure their competitors soak up the bonus seconds.

    lots of very mis timed sprints - just like a 2/3 race finishing on a rise
  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,320
    You're all thinking about the impact on entirely the wrong end of the race.

    What it'll really do is catch out Lanterne Rouge competitors who've been smart enough to sneak out into the break (so they can justifiably soft pedal after they've been caught) but not smart enough to remember it's not supposed to be a race. Watch out for a load of sneaky shoves, pushes and convenient wheel changes to ensure their competitors soak up the bonus seconds.


    Hahah that would make the early parts of a long stage much more enjoyable. (Possibly more than the end)
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,263
    So, are they working to add interest? Not really.

    Other things that come to mind:-
    - when did split day stages get dropped? Hadn't been aware of them until I read Kimmage's book, with split days or TT / short stage in the same day being reasonably common. Should they make a return?
    - why bother with pave? Isn't pave riding a bit like getting footballers to play a 10 minute section with a heavy leather cased ball - yes, that's what used to be par for the course, but roads / footballs have moved on?
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  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 9,465
    1. Riders absolutely hate split stages, which is why they were dropped.

    2. Riding pave is still a skill in road racing, we have an entire spring classics season based around it.
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  • mattsawmattsaw Posts: 907
    larkim wrote:
    So, are they working to add interest? Not really.

    Stage 17 may be interesting

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/raci ... -17-381929
    The 2018 Tour de France will put a unique spin on the start of the 17th stage, one of the shortest ever 65 kilometres, that is bound to add an extra layer of difficulty to what should be a stressful day. It will place riders in grids according to their rankings at the start and eliminate the neutral zone.

    The “special feature” appears in the Tour’s rulebook just for stage 17. The stage travels through the Pyrenees, staring in Bagnères-de-Luchon, covering the Col de Peyresourde and the Val Louron-Azet before finishing up the Col du Portet.

    “At kilometre zero, riders shall be positioned in the same order as the general classification after the previous stage,” reads article 17.

    “They shall be distributed into five different groups. The first 20 riders in the general classification shall be included in the first group in offset rows with the wearer of the yellow jersey in first place. Riders shall then position themselves freely in the other groups corresponding to their places in the general classification.”

    The stage is the shortest road stage in the last 30 years so positioning at the start could be crucial for the stage win and overall fight with Paris less than a week away

    I suspect the teams will find some way of neutralizing any uncontrolled chaos though.
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  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,263
    1. Riders absolutely hate split stages, which is why they were dropped.

    2. Riding pave is still a skill in road racing, we have an entire spring classics season based around it.
    Riders hating it surely isn't a good enough reason ;-)

    I get that riding pave is a skill, but is it really still there across the classics and in the Tour this year for any reason other than heritage? Once upon a time all roads were pave (more or less)? I know this is heresy, btw.
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  • joey54321joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    larkim wrote:
    1. Riders absolutely hate split stages, which is why they were dropped.

    2. Riding pave is still a skill in road racing, we have an entire spring classics season based around it.
    Riders hating it surely isn't a good enough reason ;-)

    I get that riding pave is a skill, but is it really still there across the classics and in the Tour this year for any reason other than heritage? Once upon a time all roads were pave (more or less)? I know this is heresy, btw.

    Some riders don't like TTs much either, guess we should get rid of them.

    Oh, and Cav is always saying how hard the mountains are, they should probably be out too. They're so last year.

    There have been talks about how stressful sprints are so we should probably ensure the riders don't need to sprint either. Lets just always get them all a medal and the same time.
  • ShutupJensShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    larkim wrote:
    1. Riders absolutely hate split stages, which is why they were dropped.

    2. Riding pave is still a skill in road racing, we have an entire spring classics season based around it.
    Riders hating it surely isn't a good enough reason ;-)

    I get that riding pave is a skill, but is it really still there across the classics and in the Tour this year for any reason other than heritage? Once upon a time all roads were pave (more or less)? I know this is heresy, btw.

    It's not just cos of heritage obviously.. It's there because millions of fans love it
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 9,465
    Re split stages:

    Some riders hate TTs, some hate climbing, some hate descending, some hate rain, some hate heat, some hate sprint stages, some hate rolling stages. All, universally, hate split stages, and anyone that says otherwise has to fight Hinault.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,895
    larkim wrote:
    Other things that come to mind:-
    - when did split day stages get dropped? Hadn't been aware of them until I read Kimmage's book, with split days or TT / short stage in the same day being reasonably common. Should they make a return?
    1991 was the last time. They would typically have a short flat stage and a team time trial on the same day. That format still exists in the Settimana Coppi e Bartali race (won by Diego Rosa this year)

    The last time they had two regular stages on the same day was 1978. In 1971 and 1976 they even had three stages on a single day.
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