help, I need an advise please!!!
sisleybarnes1
Posts: 13
Hello everybody my name is Sisley! I am organizing a biking competition among my friends in a downhill forest where cell phone connection might be bad. I will need to track them and stay in touch just in case smth goes wrong. What do you recommend?
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sisleybarnes1 wrote:Hello everybody my name is Sisley! I am organizing a biking competition among my friends in a downhill forest where cell phone connection might be bad. I will need to track them and stay in touch just in case smth goes wrong. What do you recommend?
Satellite phones.0 -
What sort of distance? Walkie talkies may be an option.0
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Whistles0
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I would recommend checking the legal requirements around this as you could be heading into a very costly position.0
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duplicated0
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steve_sordy wrote:If phones and walkie-talkies are out of the question, then mark the route with high vis hazard tape and have plenty of marshals. That way, you won't lose anyone and if anyone gets hurt the marshals can get straight onto them.
Alternatively, if you are going in a group together, then you need to establish some rules.
No helmet, no race!
Everyone has to know the route, or it has to be marked.
Someone has to be responsible for headcounts at regular intervals, or to count people past certain marker points.
If someone goes missing, you have to go look for them. Send at least two people, one to stay with them if they are injured and one to go for extra help.
No rider just goes home without telling the others.
Consider what you are going to do if someone gets knocked unconscious or cannot move because of broken bones. How are you going to summon help? Think about it now! It might be you that gets injured, so discuss this with the others.0 -
steve_sordy wrote:steve_sordy wrote:If phones and walkie-talkies are out of the question, then mark the route with high vis hazard tape and have plenty of marshals. That way, you won't lose anyone and if anyone gets hurt the marshals can get straight onto them.
Alternatively, if you are going in a group together, then you need to establish some rules.
No helmet, no race!
Everyone has to know the route, or it has to be marked.
Someone has to be responsible for headcounts at regular intervals, or to count people past certain marker points.
If someone goes missing, you have to go look for them. Send at least two people, one to stay with them if they are injured and one to go for extra help.
No rider just goes home without telling the others.
Consider what you are going to do if someone gets knocked unconscious or cannot move because of broken bones. How are you going to summon help? Think about it now! It might be you that gets injured, so discuss this with the others.0 -
If I were to do a risk assessment for this little project I would suggest you don't do it.
You will need a well marked route, marshalls, first aid trained people and VERY reliable communications, possibly a PMR network or something similar. You would also need an effective way to remove any casualties from the forest and have access to medical facilities/hospital. If you want to track them but cell phone and GPS isn't very good, then you'll struggle without using some sort of expensive satellite technology.
These may be friends but if someone gets hurt then you may find yourself on the wrong end of a legal bill.
You will need to put a lot of thought into this to make sure it is worth the effort."Ride, crash, replace"0 -
Milemuncher1 wrote:sisleybarnes1 wrote:Hello everybody my name is Sisley! I am organizing a biking competition among my friends in a downhill forest where cell phone connection might be bad. I will need to track them and stay in touch just in case smth goes wrong. What do you recommend?
Satellite phones.
As far as I know they are two expensive, not an option for me, but thanks!0 -
One of the problems Sisley is that as long as its just you and your mates hooning about in the woods, any accident is down to the individuals concerned. No blame is attached to anyone else.
But once you "organise a biking competition", you open yourself up to being held to blame for doing something, and even for not doing something. You might think your mates would never do that, and even if they did you could just apologise or ignore them. But if life-changing injuries happen (and they can), in which case the law gets involved, the authorities, the landowner, the parents looking for compensation for the ruined life of their little darling. "Someone must be to blame, someone must pay".
Since about 2012, I have organised two Forum Rides per year at Sherwood Pines (a UK trail centre). I quickly had to get better at organising them. In the beginning it was just whoever turned up and off we went! But as people got lost or came a cropper, I had to recognise that some riders were strangers to the trails and the group as a whole was of mixed ability. I started by telling people a lot more about what they were facing, what equipment they needed etc. Then I had to introduce each feature that I thought might cause problems. (Boring for the good riders, but essential for the others). Then I had to introduce frequent headcounts because people got properly lost long before we noticed they were missing.
On one particularly painful and embarrassing occasion, I had to persuade someone not to come because he had just been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. He was in the early stages of learning to deal with it and he was collapsing all over the place. I had huge sympathy for the guy, in fact I rode with him on several occasions, but I did not want him to attend and disrupt the day for everybody else. I believe I was correct, but I could have handled it better at the time, in fact I now know how to. But I missed my chance and that guy is no longer speaking to me, which I regret.
Like you, I am not doing this for money, nor tips, nor favours. It is just for fun and I expect those attending to view it the same way. But I do have that nagging worm at the back of my mind that someone I have never met before hurts themself and might decide to sue me!
In the hope that you may find it helpful, follow this link to my last Forum Ride. In particular you need to read the bits where I describe what we will be doing and how those attending can help themselves and each other from getting lost or hurt. At the time I was still developing the trail, so as each new feature cropped up I described it for those likely to attend. I wanted potential riders to include or to exclude themselves from the ride, based upon the information I provided.
viewtopic.php?f=10014&t=130921900 -
As you called it a cell phone and not a mobile phone I presume you are on the opposite side of the pond to the rest of us.
The rules may be quite a bit different.Now where's that "Get Out of Crash Free Card"0 -
robertpb wrote:As you called it a cell phone and not a mobile phone I presume you are on the opposite side of the pond to the rest of us.
The rules may be quite a bit different.
Yep! From what I understand, the yanks are even more likely to sue at the drop of a hat.
Best get everyone to sign a waiver beforehand. Something like they are doing this dangerous sport at their own risk and the responsibility for this activity and any subsequent accidents are 100% accepted by them and that they will not claim on the organiser.
I am not legally qualified!0 -
And if anyone turns up to watch - you're responsible for them too...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-nor ... s-443587750 -
BillyCool wrote:If I were to do a risk assessment for this little project I would suggest you don't do it.
You will need a well marked route, marshalls, first aid trained people and VERY reliable communications, possibly a PMR network or something similar. You would also need an effective way to remove any casualties from the forest and have access to medical facilities/hospital. If you want to track them but cell phone and GPS isn't very good, then you'll struggle without using some sort of expensive satellite technology.
These may be friends but if someone gets hurt then you may find yourself on the wrong end of a legal bill.
You will need to put a lot of thought into this to make sure it is worth the effort.
I'm still thinking about your words, thank you, yeah I've thought about all of it, but didn't think that even my friends can sue me if something goes wrong...0 -
sisleybarnes1 wrote:BillyCool wrote:If I were to do a risk assessment for this little project I would suggest you don't do it.
You will need a well marked route, marshalls, first aid trained people and VERY reliable communications, possibly a PMR network or something similar. You would also need an effective way to remove any casualties from the forest and have access to medical facilities/hospital. If you want to track them but cell phone and GPS isn't very good, then you'll struggle without using some sort of expensive satellite technology.
These may be friends but if someone gets hurt then you may find yourself on the wrong end of a legal bill.
You will need to put a lot of thought into this to make sure it is worth the effort.
I'm still thinking about your words, thank you, yeah I've thought about all of it, but didn't think that even my friends can sue me if something goes wrong...
Family of friends will if someone is seriously hurt or dies. Or a friend of a friend turns up who you don't know.
I'm not so bothered about the litigation, but what do you have in place to reduce/mitigate injury/accident? What system(s) you have in place to communicate if someone is hurt and how do you get them medical support (will it be on-site?). What on-site support do you have. Do you have an emergency RV for ambulance/helicopter?
I know it all sounds very dramatic, but as soon as you `organise` something, everyone will look to you to have all of the solutions. The whole point of risk assessing sometihng is "what if", reducung that risk, in the hope that it never happens.
I'm not saying don't do it, but be fully aware of what *could* happen. I've yet to see any organised DH MTB event where people don't fall off and damage themselves. It's part and parcel of the sport and should be expected and planned for.
Where are you based anyway?"Ride, crash, replace"0
