Red 20 to Dura Ace 9100???

pma73

Hi guys,

I've been contemplating upgrading my SRAM Red 20 speed groupset to a 22 speed groupset on my best bike for a while. I can now get a full Dura Ace 9100 groupset for £899 from CRC with my British Cycling discount.

My question is, would you???

Thanks in advance for any comments or advice.

First.Aspect

I'd check you can use your current wheels before deciding.

And could you be going Di2/eTap?

redvision

Is it worth it? The differences would be negligible as both are top groupsets. Unless you don't like the sram then i would save your cash.

cougie

You'd not notice£900 worth of benefit.

StillGoing

The only way I'd change is by going electronic. If you want 11 speed, just change your SRAM shifters for Force 22 or Red 22 and an 11 speed cassette, the derailleurs don't need changing as they just do what the shifters tell them with SRAM. I certainly wouldn't go from SRAM mechanical to Shimano mechanical.

vinnymarsden

Having had the DA9100 I concur with a lot of the posts here.
It’s a great groupset but so is the Red.
Unless you are changing to electric I would buy some new wheels personally, but that’s me.
Your cash... your choice, just hope you are happy when you have took the plunge.

svetty

If the SRAM has seen a lot of miles you will readily appreciate how tight and smooth a new unworn gruppo feels. That's a good price for the DA so......

Matthewfalle

As above - Red is so much snappier and nicer and more comfortable than DA: I'd just invest in some new shifters, cassette and chain, new cables inners and outers.

Spend the balance on drugs and ho's.

I have DA on the crit bike, Red on N1 and Red is soooo much nicer.

You'll regret changing across.

No need to go electronic with that level of groupset either. Save the cash, spend on the above d & h.

mfin

Is the Red 10 aeroglide mech different from the Red 22 one? The Red one has 22 written on it, the jockey wheels could be a bit different, not sure about anything else.

mfin

Also, OP, are you running the old Red 10 speed or the later Aeroglide Red 10 speed? If it's the former, the ergonomics of the later ones (which are the same as Red 22) are much better, much nicer on the hoods.

If it's the old stuff, I can see some good reason for going to 22 based on the shifter design. The last reason I would move is to have one more gear though, it makes naff all difference.

I have Aeroglide Red 10 on one bike, and couldn't care less that it isn't Red 22 (I have 11 speed on another bike and never wish this one was 11 speed too). I did however move from the old Red 10 levers to the Aeroglide 10 and it was worth it for sure.

I wouldn't bother with Dura Ace but then again some people like putting fishing tackle on their bikes, the ergonomics and aesthetics are shite. If shimano designed a car they'd probably have the steering be done by twisting the handbrake. Some prat came up with that stupid system of theirs years ago, it's daft.

StillGoing

With SRAM 10 speed, there is no need to buy a complete groupset to upgrade to 11 speed. Just change the shifters and cassette. The amount of people that splash out in the belief they have the change the derailleurs too amazes me.

Matthewfalle

philthy3 wrote:

With SRAM 10 speed, there is no need to buy a complete groupset to upgrade to 11 speed. Just change the shifters and cassette. The amount of people that splash out in the belief they have the change the derailleurs too amazes me.

Well, if people don't know then it's not really amazing that they do it.

norvernrob

I’ve just changed from Red 20 to eTap. I’m still not even sure if it was worth it, although eTap is great. I know if I’d changed to another mechanical groupset it would have been a massive waste of cash as the Red worked flawlessly. Plus I’ve got Shimano on another bike (105 though not DA) and I just find double tap a better system.

paul64

mfin wrote:

I wouldn't bother with Dura Ace but then again some people like putting fishing tackle on their bikes, the ergonomics and aesthetics are shite. If shimano designed a car they'd probably have the steering be done by twisting the handbrake. Some prat came up with that stupid system of theirs years ago, it's daft.

Wow, you could make a similar analogy for any of the brands if you don't like them. Don't you think the ergonomics, aesthetics and shifting design is a personal/emotive choice at the end of the day? There are advocates and dissenters for Shimano, SRAM and Campag and none of them are right or wrong.

I know riders who enjoy their bikes more if they use equipment they like and riders who really don't care, don't follow innovations and just enjoy riding, generally off the front of others on the road! So, my thoughts to the OP is if you are the former then don't take any of our opinions and go and try some DA for yourself and if you are the latter then maximise what you have.

shirley_basso

I think shimano aesthetics and ergonomics are fantastic.

paul64

Yes me too Shirley. I have had SRAM Rival on one bike for about 8 years and whilst the right lever upshift (smaller cogs) is fantastic I have tolerated the downshift (larger cogs) which I like less, however I have never adapted to the left lever upshifting - truly appalling no matter how careful the cable tension to make it as easy as possible, overall I can't stand the agricultural / crude / vulgar mechanicals of SRAM and over time it is my least favourite hood shape for comfort. Hence I did not explore Red despite temptation.

In contrast my old shape Campag Record are superb and I get it why there were advocates for this or 9-=speed Dura Ace (I have had the privilege of owning and using both and still can't pick a favourite). These and my current shape Veloce both suit me really well particularly for riding on the hoods with thumb shifting and unmatched light braking with the lever shape.

And in contrast again (having mentioned 9 speed DA) I could not ask for better than the DA9000 on one bike and agree with you, shifting is so smooth and precise no matter how tired or beaten up from the ride I am.

And for clarity, the OP should take all of this with a pinch of salt as I mentioned before!

StillGoing

Matthewfalle wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

With SRAM 10 speed, there is no need to buy a complete groupset to upgrade to 11 speed. Just change the shifters and cassette. The amount of people that splash out in the belief they have the change the derailleurs too amazes me.

Well, if people don't know then it's not really amazing that they do it.

Its amazing that despite the information being widely out there, people are still ignorant of it.

paul64 wrote:

Yes me too Shirley. I have had SRAM Rival on one bike for about 8 years and whilst the right lever upshift (smaller cogs) is fantastic I have tolerated the downshift (larger cogs) which I like less, however I have never adapted to the left lever upshifting - truly appalling no matter how careful the cable tension to make it as easy as possible, overall I can't stand the agricultural / crude / vulgar mechanicals of SRAM and over time it is my least favourite hood shape for comfort. Hence I did not explore Red despite temptation.

In contrast my old shape Campag Record are superb and I get it why there were advocates for this or 9-=speed Dura Ace (I have had the privilege of owning and using both and still can't pick a favourite). These and my current shape Veloce both suit me really well particularly for riding on the hoods with thumb shifting and unmatched light braking with the lever shape.

And in contrast again (having mentioned 9 speed DA) I could not ask for better than the DA9000 on one bike and agree with you, shifting is so smooth and precise no matter how tired or beaten up from the ride I am.

And for clarity, the OP should take all of this with a pinch of salt as I mentioned before!

I'll agree in part. Having small hands, SRAM hoods were a good fit for me and I can't get to like having the brake lever do the shifting. SRAM front shifting is however clunky and not a patch on Shimano for smoothness, but the rear shifting is arguably better with SRAM. The newer generation of Shimano Ultegra and Dura Ace hoods are a much better fit and far more comfortable. As far as mechanical installation goes, Shimano is a breeze compared to installing the gear inners to SRAM shifters.

pma73

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the time taken to respond to my trivia.

So, after some thought, I've gone down the etap route, it seemed daft to update to another mechanical groupset. eBay £800 purchase as got me new, shifters, rear and front mech, cable, dongle and charger. Hopefully they will arrive as that's a bargain offer to accept.

I'll be keeping my 10 speed red chainset as it's pretty mint, and adding an 11 speed cassette and chain 'pretty sure I can keep the 10 speed chainset, that's what I've read anyway'. Would there be any issues going with an Ultegra cassette and chain with etap? I'm pretty sure it's OK and just a daft question. Please guide me if I'm talking nonsense...

Cheers guys.

mfin

paul64 wrote:

mfin wrote:

I wouldn't bother with Dura Ace but then again some people like putting fishing tackle on their bikes, the ergonomics and aesthetics are shite. If shimano designed a car they'd probably have the steering be done by twisting the handbrake. Some prat came up with that stupid system of theirs years ago, it's daft.

...Don't you think the ergonomics, aesthetics and shifting design is a personal/emotive choice at the end of the day?

Ummmm. No.

I think a blind person could like shimano but even they'd be frustrated with the ergonomics.

Saying that, the single best thing about D12 is it stopping the need for the stupid moving the brake lever for downshifts of their mechanical ergonomically compromised shite. That's been the ergonomics almost sorted (their choice of crappy mouse button feel is crap though, perhaps they wanted to make sure something about it was still at least a bit rubbish).

cougie

mfin wrote:

I wouldn't bother with Dura Ace but then again some people like putting fishing tackle on their bikes, the ergonomics and aesthetics are shite. If shimano designed a car they'd probably have the steering be done by twisting the handbrake. Some prat came up with that stupid system of theirs years ago, it's daft.

Shimano gave Campag a kick up the bum back in the 80s. Campag was an absolute pain. Special spanners and tools needed for everything. Shimano came along and it was Allen key for everything.

Without them Campag would still be dawdling in the glory days of the 60s.

Give me Shimano or Sram over Campag - those levers aren't my cup of tea.

vinnymarsden

To the OP...
I had Etap and ran Shimano cassettes and chains with no problems whatsoever.
I would recommend keeping the Red crankset as you say... when I fitted Etap I used Praxis rings.... nightmare!
Constantly throwing the chain off the big ring, it’s a common problem with Etap allegedly, but I bought a red crankset .... problem totally cured...
I got rid of ETap because as I approach 60 I cannot for the life in me remember to charge the batteries, which is a more frequent need with it, so went back to Di2... I know I will get to the bottom of a big hill and lose battery stuck on the big one but at least it won’t be as often as it was with Etap, which I will add was purely user causation, NOT the equipment!
Enjoy the Etap, it’s a marvellous bit of tech

pma73

Thanks Vinny. Appreciate your experienced comments.

Next time I'll be wary not to post a question that will ignite a SRAM v Shimano with a side of Campy battle.

Cheers.

StillGoing

pma73 wrote:

Thanks Vinny. Appreciate your experienced comments.

Next time I'll be wary not to post a question that will ignite a SRAM v Shimano with a side of Campy battle.

Cheers.

And we all know who started that as usual.