Who's still commuting on rim brakes?

njee20

Also never touched the RS805 discs on mine, not even changed the pads. They got a bit screachy in the Alps once, but I was thoroughly enjoying how much I could outbreak my companions on rim brakes (which vindicated the decision to take that bike!), and the extra power was awesome.

For commuting rim brakes never felt inferior, but discs are better.

dinyull

Commute on discs.

Went from rim, to mechanical disc and recently to hydro discs. Mechanical were much better (than 105 5800 with koolstop salmon) in the wet, but a royal pain in the ar$e to keep maintained/ setup.

Hydro's are on another level completely though and wouldn't go back for commuting/ wet weather.

My only "incident" with a car was when someone pulled out on me when it was drizzling. Slowed enough with rim brakes to avoid being badly injured, but no doubt in my mind that with Hydro's I wouldn't have even hit the car.

veronese68

prawny wrote:

My HyRds have been faultless so far to be honest, If I could afford a nice racey light bike with discs I wouldn't hesitate. But it seems that disc brake bikes under a grand are either heavy, or relaxed adventure types which hasn't worked out as well as I'd hoped.

What about buying a racier disc frame and swapping components from your current Hack. You'd get to keep the HyRds and haven't you just changed the chainset on it.

essex-commuter

Rim brakes on my light commuter, discs on the heavier Winter bike. When I go back to the light bike after riding my Winter bike I crap myself when I first hit the brakes, they are worlds apart.

roger_merriman

essex-commuter wrote:

Rim brakes on my light commuter, discs on the heavier Winter bike. When I go back to the light bike after riding my Winter bike I crap myself when I first hit the brakes, they are worlds apart.

They are, though worth noting that Disks them selfs differ greatly.

I have 3 bikes all on disks one cable two Hydro, they differ in feel/power the new gravel bike has Tektro cable disks and is a fair bit less powerful than the Tektro Hydro's on the old Commute MTB, both of which feel positively weak compared to the MTB with Shimano hydro's with admittedly bigger rotors.

last bike I had with Rim brakes was fairly terrifying weak, but some of the others where good, unless it rained heavily where they couldn't clear the rim quick enough.

prawny

Veronese68 wrote:

What about buying a racier disc frame and swapping components from your current Hack. You'd get to keep the HyRds and haven't you just changed the chainset on it.

I've thought about it, and it's an option, but I'm thinking of keeping mine as a spare/cx/deep winter bike. Also, my HyRds are post mount so I'd probably need (want) to change them to flat mounts on a new bike, then I'm knocking on to the cost of a full bike.

essex-commuter

roger merriman wrote:

essex-commuter wrote:

Rim brakes on my light commuter, discs on the heavier Winter bike. When I go back to the light bike after riding my Winter bike I crap myself when I first hit the brakes, they are worlds apart.

They are, though worth noting that Disks them selfs differ greatly.

I have 3 bikes all on disks one cable two Hydro, they differ in feel/power the new gravel bike has Tektro cable disks and is a fair bit less powerful than the Tektro Hydro's on the old Commute MTB, both of which feel positively weak compared to the MTB with Shimano hydro's with admittedly bigger rotors.

last bike I had with Rim brakes was fairly terrifying weak, but some of the others where good, unless it rained heavily where they couldn't clear the rim quick enough.

It was my 'light' commuter that got smashed up in my accident yesterday (see another post). The bike was only 6 months old and hence on original pads. Soon as they wore down I was going to replace them with Salmon Koolstops as I find they make a big difference, well they have on previous bikes I've owned.

prawny

By the sounds of it, no amount of braking power would have helped there, it was a similar story when I got hit last year, lit up like a christmas tree and got smacked up the arse by a car coming onto a roundabout without seeing me.

Luckily, it was a couple of TINKs in the car and they just bank transferred me £700 for a new bike. Which was nice.

essex-commuter

prawny wrote:

By the sounds of it, no amount of braking power would have helped there, it was a similar story when I got hit last year, lit up like a christmas tree and got smacked up the ars* by a car coming onto a roundabout without seeing me.

Luckily, it was a couple of TINKs in the car and they just bank transferred me £700 for a new bike. Which was nice.

Too true. If she had been indicating I might have stood a chance because I always cover the brakes to be on the safe side.

But she wasn't. Probably looking at phone, talking to Daughter on back seat who she had just picked up from school, or trying to control the dog that was bouncing about everywhere yapping.

pastryboy

Can't justify a grand on a new bike just for discs. I have used them for a bit and miles better than the long reach calipers I have. But not that much over ultegra rim brakes on my best bike.

secretsam

Me
1980s steelie = no choice

But: winter bike has hydro discs, wonderful. Sadly the carbon summer bike doesn't, which is a shame ss it's a joy to ride.

Total convert. In the dry, no difference. In the wet...night and day.

veronese68

prawny wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

What about buying a racier disc frame and swapping components from your current Hack. You'd get to keep the HyRds and haven't you just changed the chainset on it.

I've thought about it, and it's an option, but I'm thinking of keeping mine as a spare/cx/deep winter bike. Also, my HyRds are post mount so I'd probably need (want) to change them to flat mounts on a new bike, then I'm knocking on to the cost of a full bike.

If it helps the decision making process you can fit post mount brakes to a flat mount frame using adaptors, but cannot fit flat mount brakes to a post mount frame.

tgotb

One other factor, of course, is that there are only 2 different types of pad for caliper brakes (plus a handful more for canti/V brakes) so you can be pretty confident that your LBS will have replacement pads in your hour of need.

There are already a gazillion different models of disk brake pad, and that's only going to increase as each manufacturer develops their brakes in a slightly different way, to make them lighter and/or more aero; your LBS is going to find it hard to justify holding stock of every single model. Combine this with the fact that hydraulic brakes stop working very quickly once the pads wear out, and you're all going to have to start paying a lot more attention to brake wear, and/or buying spare sets of pads in advance...

jds_1981

TGOTB wrote:

Combine this with the fact that hydraulic brakes stop working very quickly once the pads wear out, and you're all going to have to start paying a lot more attention to brake wear, and/or buying spare sets of pads in advance...

Braking performance still works even when metal on metal

I tend to carry a spadre pair of pads with me, lots of models will fit in to a puncture repair kit box alongside a spare quicklink.

tgotb

jds_1981 wrote:

Braking performance still works even when metal on metal

It does, but there comes a point when the piston runs out of range, and at that point they stop working very quickly

jds_1981 wrote:

I tend to carry a spadre pair of pads with me, lots of models will fit in to a puncture repair kit box alongside a spare quicklink.

It's not you I'm talking about; there are people on this forum who have to chuck their bike in a taxi just because they broke their chain. There are even people who take their bike to a bike shop when they get a puncture. They're the ones who are going to get caught out when their pads wear out and the LBS takes 3 days to get in a set of replacements, only to find that they don't fit because they're for a 5903 model, and the brake on the bike is a 5904...

prawny

TGOTB wrote:

the fact that hydraulic brakes stop working very quickly once the pads wear out, and you're all going to have to start paying a lot more attention to brake wear, and/or buying spare sets of pads in advance...

This nearly got me when I moved to the HyRds, I'd forgotten to check them, and it was through Jan/feb so they were pretty much down to the metal, the first warning was a severe lack of breaking power. It was an interesting ride home.

njee20

Yes, if you're a mechanically inept oaf then rim brakes may be better. If you have a modicum of common sense then it's not an issue. They don't go from "working" to "not working" instantly, you'd get quite a bit of notice, much like with rim brakes really.

I'm yet to change my pads after about 3,000 miles.

It's all just the same points as presented on mountain bikes 20 years ago!

awavey

hyd disc may have a different feel as the pad wears out, but on mechanical Ive had it several times where Ive started off feeling comfortable with stopping power starting off and mid ride pulled the brake lever and nothing happened as youve just worn enough of the material off the pad so it makes no contact with the disc anymore, till you turn the adjustment screw a half turn...though you cant do that till you actually manage to stop first :shock:

as for rim brake blocks being simple, I dont agree thats true anymore either you can get slide in pads and full pads, which are different widths so even if LBS advises they will fit, they do but you have to setup the whole spacing/cabling for them from scratch. and despite what are seemingly a well known brand (Avid) of rim brakes, no LBS or even Halfords (I know but its a Boardman right youd expect them to know which bits fit) has ever been able to tell me which blocks I should use as a replacement.

its like Avid made these brakes about 2010, and then decided to adopt a totally different way of doing things,numbering parts and decided backward compatibility wasnt necessary anymore

as I said Ive had rim brakes when setup properly I almost somersaulted over the handlebars when Ive pulled the brake lever, admittedly not the wet, but they can be setup to do the job properly.

tgotb

awavey wrote:

hyd disc may have a different feel as the pad wears out, but on mechanical Ive had it several times where Ive started off feeling comfortable with stopping power starting off and mid ride pulled the brake lever and nothing happened as youve just worn enough of the material off the pad so it makes no contact with the disc anymore, till you turn the adjustment screw a half turn...though you cant do that till you actually manage to stop first :shock:

The issue with many hydraulic brakes is that they do the adjustment for you automagically, so you can become completely oblivious to pad wear (unless you check it, which you obviously should). At some point you will reach the limit of this automagic adjustment. Depending on your setup (factors will include reservoir volume and the amount of fluid in your system), one of two things will happen:
1. You run out of pad material and end up pushing the metal pad backing against the disk. As jds already commented, this will still enable you to slow down.
2. You run out of piston range. If this happens braking performance will fall off very rapidly, and in some circumstances can go from great braking to no braking over the course of a single ride. This is particularly an issue for systems with very small reservoirs (eg Parabox).

You can avoid this by checking your pads regularly. The issue is that we're human, and many people forget. With a caliper system you'll probably notice the pads getting thin just by seeing them; with a cable disk system you'll notice because you have to adjust the cable/calipers. With a hydraulic system there's nothing to prompt you, so you have to be a bit more diligent about checking pad wear.

Cars have the same problem, which is why they have built-in warning systems (either a warning light or something built into the pad that makes a squealing noise). Bikes don't, so you have to check.

veronese68

TGOTB wrote:

2. You run out of piston range. If this happens braking performance will fall off very rapidly, and in some circumstances can go from great braking to no braking over the course of a single ride. This is particularly an issue for systems with very small reservoirs (eg Parabox).

Makes mental note to check brake pads again. I usually check them when I'm cleaning the bike, my bike is filthy at the moment.

tgotb

Veronese68 wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

2. You run out of piston range. If this happens braking performance will fall off very rapidly, and in some circumstances can go from great braking to no braking over the course of a single ride. This is particularly an issue for systems with very small reservoirs (eg Parabox).

Makes mental note to check brake pads again. I usually check them when I'm cleaning the bike, my bike is filthy at the moment.

:-)
If you ever need some in an emergency, I normally carry a decent stock.

There's also:
3. Pads go from brand new to worn out over the course of a single ride. The answer to this is not to use soft (ie organic) pads in wet conditions at locations known to have abrasive mud. If you do kill your brake pads in a race and have a pit bike with fresh pads available, changing bikes while the old one is still rideable costs you less time than persevering with no brakes, crashing, and then having to run half a lap to get to your fresh bike... :roll:

greg66_tri_v2.0

Rim brakes on carbon tubulars year round. If it rains I ride conservatively.

Not dead yet.

milemuncher1

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Rim brakes on carbon tubulars year round. If it rains I ride conservatively.

Not dead yet.

Good answer.

milemuncher1

TGOTB wrote:

awavey wrote:

hyd disc may have a different feel as the pad wears out, but on mechanical Ive had it several times where Ive started off feeling comfortable with stopping power starting off and mid ride pulled the brake lever and nothing happened as youve just worn enough of the material off the pad so it makes no contact with the disc anymore, till you turn the adjustment screw a half turn...though you cant do that till you actually manage to stop first :shock:

The issue with many hydraulic brakes is that they do the adjustment for you automagically, so you can become completely oblivious to pad wear (unless you check it, which you obviously should). At some point you will reach the limit of this automagic adjustment. Depending on your setup (factors will include reservoir volume and the amount of fluid in your system), one of two things will happen:
1. You run out of pad material and end up pushing the metal pad backing against the disk. As jds already commented, this will still enable you to slow down.
2. You run out of piston range. If this happens braking performance will fall off very rapidly, and in some circumstances can go from great braking to no braking over the course of a single ride. This is particularly an issue for systems with very small reservoirs (eg Parabox).

You can avoid this by checking your pads regularly. The issue is that we're human, and many people forget. With a caliper system you'll probably notice the pads getting thin just by seeing them; with a cable disk system you'll notice because you have to adjust the cable/calipers. With a hydraulic system there's nothing to prompt you, so you have to be a bit more diligent about checking pad wear.

Cars have the same problem, which is why they have built-in warning systems (either a warning light or something built into the pad that makes a squealing noise). Bikes don't, so you have to check.

I’ve only got one bike with hydraulic disc brakes, and you’re right. They automatically adjust, all the while, the pad material is wearing out, then you’ll grab the brakes, and find out that metal on metal isn’t going to give you sufficient friction. That can be scary if your coming down a steep descent into a corner :shock:

meanredspider

Milemuncher1 wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

awavey wrote:

hyd disc may have a different feel as the pad wears out, but on mechanical Ive had it several times where Ive started off feeling comfortable with stopping power starting off and mid ride pulled the brake lever and nothing happened as youve just worn enough of the material off the pad so it makes no contact with the disc anymore, till you turn the adjustment screw a half turn...though you cant do that till you actually manage to stop first :shock:

The issue with many hydraulic brakes is that they do the adjustment for you automagically, so you can become completely oblivious to pad wear (unless you check it, which you obviously should). At some point you will reach the limit of this automagic adjustment. Depending on your setup (factors will include reservoir volume and the amount of fluid in your system), one of two things will happen:
1. You run out of pad material and end up pushing the metal pad backing against the disk. As jds already commented, this will still enable you to slow down.
2. You run out of piston range. If this happens braking performance will fall off very rapidly, and in some circumstances can go from great braking to no braking over the course of a single ride. This is particularly an issue for systems with very small reservoirs (eg Parabox).

You can avoid this by checking your pads regularly. The issue is that we're human, and many people forget. With a caliper system you'll probably notice the pads getting thin just by seeing them; with a cable disk system you'll notice because you have to adjust the cable/calipers. With a hydraulic system there's nothing to prompt you, so you have to be a bit more diligent about checking pad wear.

Cars have the same problem, which is why they have built-in warning systems (either a warning light or something built into the pad that makes a squealing noise). Bikes don't, so you have to check.

I’ve only got one bike with hydraulic disc brakes, and you’re right. They automatically adjust, all the while, the pad material is wearing out, then you’ll grab the brakes, and find out that metal on metal isn’t going to give you sufficient friction. That can be scary if your coming down a steep descent into a corner :shock:

That’s why you have front and rear brakes...and you’ll hear grinding long before you’re completely out of pad material.

In the meantime carry a “massive” pair of spare pads if you’re the type of person that can’t remember to check your pads... takes 2 minutes to change (unlike car brake pads...).

Lot of nonsense.

CitizenLee

I haven't had a non disc bike since the 90s, and there's absolutely nothing that could convince me to go back to rim brakes.

You get what you pay for though, and cheap disc brakes do tend to under perform or need lots of tinkering. However, if you spend a little more then they are basically just fit and forget until you need new pads. They're so easy to bleed at home too, as long as you stick to a brand that uses mineral oil. For commuting/road use you're not going to need the stopping power of brakes that use DOT fluid anyway (Hope etc). You can also do a "ghetto" bleed to stop the levers feeling squishy, just zip-tie the levers closed and leave over night... should feel a lot better come morning.

As for shops not being able to stock all the different pads for all the different models, eBay and Superstar Components have you covered there. Plus a lot of newer brakes are backwards compatible with older pads. If you know you go through lots of pads just stock up, like you would with any other easily perishable part... and obviously use the right type of pads for your riding conditions.