Talk to me about the Scott Foil please! After opinions, feedback etc

daniel_b
daniel_b Posts: 11,507
edited June 2018 in Road buying advice
Morning all,

after some advice, personal experience, and or opinions really.

I had a bad back a few years back, but am mostly over that, and due to a lot of training over the last 18 months, am now comfortable with a decent drop from saddle to bars.
I can handle centuries on the CR1, and am thinking that fulfills the role of comfy distance bike, so could indulge in something aero and potentially faster for shorter blasts.

With that in mind, I am considering selling my Di2 Synapse (Still have an alloy one), and am looking at the Scott Foil RC.

I'm a little confused (Yet to study the geometry) as found one website that suggested it had a fairly short reach for an aero bike, and so was good and comfortable for long rides, but then found another site that said the Addict had a long top tube, and that the Foil shared it's geometry.

I will in due course however compare and contract the CR1 SL 2012 geometry with that of the Foil.

Any owners out there have a recentish model (Think they revised the design in 2016?) and care to comment.

I do have a short upper torso verus long legs, so my ideal setup tends to be a 25mm setback seatpost, 545 top tube, 90mm stem and short reach compact bars.
I noticed the 54 Foil has a 550 TT, so seemingly nothing insurmountable.

Two options I am considering, is either buy a complete bike, nicely specced with Dura Ace, and sell the wheels - the reason I am thinking this way is that I see the 2017 model was on sale at some point (Anyone know when?) at Rutland cycles for £3000, which was a 40% discount I think.

Alternatively, like I did with the CR1, I could go frame (Although this one come with seatpost\headset\stem and bars) and use my current wheels, and then buy a groupset - possibly on the cycle 2 work scheme.
If I went that route, I could potentially land a frame for 1800\2000, and then get either a full Dura ace groupset for circa £600 through the c2w sheme OR go for an ETAP partial setup for the same cost, and buy the additional cassette, crankset, brakes to finish it off.
SRAM Red seem quite pricey in that respect - any reason not to opt for Ultegra or dura ace?

Anyone talk me out of this train of thought - totally bonkers?

Additionally, anyone care to speculate when the prices might start coming down, as there is no way I am spending 5-6K on one.

I've never really kept an eye on when the prices start coming down - presumably July into September as the next years models land?

Oh and if any eagle eyed individuals stunble upon a deal, big or small, on either the complete bike, or frameset in a 54, I would be highly appreciative of a reply on here on a pm :D

Thanks in advance

Dan
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 18

Comments

  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    Get an Aeroad :D
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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  • The pre-2017 Scott Foil puts you in a slightly different position on the bike, slightly more forward than other bikes. Complete opposite to the Aeroad which is long and low. As you've noted, the 2017 onwards is a different design. You could almost ride a 52 with your dimensions using a 110mm stem
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • Where are you seeing Foil HMX models for £1800?
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,507
    I did consider a Canyon, but they don't do a lot for me for whatever reason.

    This just does (especially if it had cosmic carbon exaliths fitted):
    scott-foil-rc-road-bike-2018-p329262-473938_image.jpg
    And for something like this, it needs to be heart over head for me.
    Full pro version with deep rims for comparison:
    20180112-7725-clevitch-untitled-1516178467552-1cn9bpthmm3ch-630-80.jpg

    Interesting on the positioning and size, will do some more research. Trouble is I have a long inseam and short torso, so wonder if the drop would be too much on a 52.

    Nowhere currently has the 2018 frame for that much pippi, but can see last years one around for £2100, so am hypothesising that it's a possibility for next year.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,507
    So comparing size 54 geometry, there are only seemingly a few minor differences, and one more notable one:

    Foil\CR1
    Head tube angle - 72.5\73.0
    Head tube length - 150\156
    Top tube - 550\545
    Wheelbase - 987\981
    Seat tube angle - 73.6\74.0
    Reach - 388.9\383.0
    Stack - 547.5\565 (This seems to be the biggest difference.

    I currently run my CR1 with all of the spacers bar one under the stem, but do plan to change that, at least for a test period.

    The above does not fill me with fear.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,507
    On further thought, would I be correct in thinking that the Foil would come with no spacers, as the stem 'has' to be as low as possible for the aero to have any impact?

    In which case, that could be a fair amount of difference in drop for me to accommodate.

    Thanks
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • poptart242
    poptart242 Posts: 531
    Daniel B wrote:
    I did consider a Canyon, but they don't do a lot for me for whatever reason.

    This just does (especially if it had cosmic carbon exaliths fitted):
    scott-foil-rc-road-bike-2018-p329262-473938_image.jpg
    And for something like this, it needs to be heart over head for me.
    Full pro version with deep rims for comparison:
    20180112-7725-clevitch-untitled-1516178467552-1cn9bpthmm3ch-630-80.jpg

    Interesting on the positioning and size, will do some more research. Trouble is I have a long inseam and short torso, so wonder if the drop would be too much on a 52.

    Nowhere currently has the 2018 frame for that much pippi, but can see last years one around for £2100, so am hypothesising that it's a possibility for next year.

    I have this frame, in a 52 - happy to send pics of my set up! I have short legs, long torso at 5'9" and I ride the 52 with a 120mm stem and pretty much as low as I can go on the steerer (I think I have 5mm of spacers).

    Plus points:
    - Great frame - sharp handling, very stiff, not uncomfortable, neat cable routing via the downtube, direct mount brakes are powerful
    - The rear brake is in a stupid, awful, silly position, and it will rub unless you buy the Stiffest Wheels In The World
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,507
    Poptart242 wrote:
    Daniel B wrote:
    I did consider a Canyon, but they don't do a lot for me for whatever reason.

    This just does (especially if it had cosmic carbon exaliths fitted):
    And for something like this, it needs to be heart over head for me.
    Full pro version with deep rims for comparison:

    Interesting on the positioning and size, will do some more research. Trouble is I have a long inseam and short torso, so wonder if the drop would be too much on a 52.

    Nowhere currently has the 2018 frame for that much pippi, but can see last years one around for £2100, so am hypothesising that it's a possibility for next year.

    I have this frame, in a 52 - happy to send pics of my set up! I have short legs, long torso at 5'9" and I ride the 52 with a 120mm stem and pretty much as low as I can go on the steerer (I think I have 5mm of spacers).

    Plus points:
    - Great frame - sharp handling, very stiff, not uncomfortable, neat cable routing via the downtube, direct mount brakes are powerful
    - The rear brake is in a stupid, awful, silly position, and it will rub unless you buy the Stiffest Wheels In The World

    Hi PT,

    thanks for that - would be intrigued to see - a Google shows that they all come with an amount of specifically shaped spacers.
    Do you have the RC model then, in the first pic?
    Did you stick with the stock wheels?

    Do you know what your genuine inseam is?
    As we are the opposite proportion wise (I'm 1" taller but with a 34" inside leg) I'd certainly be intrigued to see what kind of setup you have - I suspect I would need spacers on a 54.
    I'm also widening my scope to the Foil 10, all be it, not quite as pretty looking as the RC, and obviously not the top end frame.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    Daniel B wrote:
    So comparing size 54 geometry, there are only seemingly a few minor differences, and one more notable one:

    Foil\CR1
    Head tube angle - 72.5\73.0
    Head tube length - 150\156
    Top tube - 550\545
    Wheelbase - 987\981
    Seat tube angle - 73.6\74.0
    Reach - 388.9\383.0
    Stack - 547.5\565 (This seems to be the biggest difference.

    I currently run my CR1 with all of the spacers bar one under the stem, but do plan to change that, at least for a test period.

    The above does not fill me with fear.

    If you are on a 90mm stem with the CR1, then reach is also going to be a factor. If your inside leg is circa 34 inches then I would guess your saddle height is around about 75+cm from the bottom bracket. You are probably looking at least 4cm of spacers - with that you are probably still going to have a fair drop.
    I am assuming that you run your synapse(s) (a 54 cm) with your stem close to slammed - if not then maybe you should not consider the foil.

    The only aero bike I can think of where the geometry suits you is the Colnago concept - which is very nice but also expensive.
  • mamil314
    mamil314 Posts: 1,103
    Foil Disc to avoid dodgy rear brake. Or Madone.
  • warrior4life
    warrior4life Posts: 925
    Daniel B wrote:
    On further thought, would I be correct in thinking that the Foil would come with no spacers, as the stem 'has' to be as low as possible for the aero to have any impact?

    In which case, that could be a fair amount of difference in drop for me to accommodate.

    Thanks

    Thr Foil comes with lots of spacers just like any other bike but having them underneath the stem defeats the object really. An aero bike is supposed to be aero and aggresive. If you're riding with 30mm of spacers under the stem it generally shows you're riding the wrong bike. As a bike fitter I used to size people up and recommend a more comfortable bike but they'd ignore it as they wanted something that looked better.
    We'd end up messing around with the position to make an aggresive bike fit and they always look terrible. It sounds like an endurance bike may be more suited, I'm not sure if there are any aero bikes with a less aggresive position out there.

    I've ridden the original Foil and the new one, both are great bikes, the original was a little lighter and the new one a bit stiffer but blindfolded I find it hard to tell any difference.
    The direct mount rear brake is great, it has more power than a standard caliper and weighs less. I worked in a Scott dealers and never saw one cistomer complaint about the brake.
    As far as big brand aero bikes go its as good as anything out there. They're all very level, I'd go with the one I like the look of.
    I owned the original Foil and I had the new one for two weeks in Lanzarote. A lot of guys who I know say that the new Foil feels faster than the old and the Addict but personally I dont feel it, they feel about the same.

    I'd get a bike fit and see how you feel. Try Cycledivision at Barton Under Needwood, they have the old Cadence sport shop and they throw a full bike fit in with a road bike purchase, they also have good deals on Scott and wheel upgrade options.
  • poptart242
    poptart242 Posts: 531
    Daniel B wrote:
    Hi PT,

    thanks for that - would be intrigued to see - a Google shows that they all come with an amount of specifically shaped spacers.
    Do you have the RC model then, in the first pic?
    Did you stick with the stock wheels?

    Do you know what your genuine inseam is?
    As we are the opposite proportion wise (I'm 1" taller but with a 34" inside leg) I'd certainly be intrigued to see what kind of setup you have - I suspect I would need spacers on a 54.
    I'm also widening my scope to the Foil 10, all be it, not quite as pretty looking as the RC, and obviously not the top end frame.

    My two are linked here (ended up replacing the white 20 with the black 10, wheel-rub issue): https://photos.app.goo.gl/UZpxFxaXN4fKcDQG6

    Good point about the frame - it's not the RC, I just glanced at the photo and thought I'd the same colourway but it's not 100% the same. Mines has a matt finish.

    The spacers are proprietary, yeah - I had mines cut pretty much immediately. Going by what you've said in the thread I'd say you're likely to want spacers. That being said It has the same drop as my old supersix, and that still had about 20mm of spacers left.

    No stock wheels here - ran them with:
    Mavic Cosmic (alu rimmed older version) - no rub
    Zipp 302 rear, Zuus 38mm front - rear rub
    Zuus 38mm front and rear - rear rub
    Current set (I can't use carbon braking any more due to a hand injury) Mavic Kysriums - no rub
    Basically any modern wide-rimmed wheelset will rub, is what I've found so far.

    Inseam is just under 30".

    HTH :D