What's the rage over Di2?

kimchiwitrice

As the title says, and I suspect it's been discussed before -- why is it such a huge deal? For most of us, does it really make a huge difference?

haydenm

Never used it but for me the benefits would be no need to index gears, no cable stretching, no cable fraying. Negatives would be forgetting to charge, having to take spares on multi day rides, cost.

I would certainly have it on a normal road bike for racing and day rides

joey54321

I thought it would be an expensive gimimck when I put it on my build a few years ago. I absolutely love it, I am not sure why, it sounds lazy, but I change gear far more with DI2 then I ever do on my geared bikes.

Matthewfalle

the MFs have all used it and they are not really that fussed.

no better than well set up Red or D/A mechanical and weighs and costs more.

singleton

I had it on a previous build - it's not on my current bike.
It wasn't bad of course, it was just not much better and so not worth the additional cost / complexity / etc in my opinion.

surfercyclist

I went for it sight unseen as it were when I ordered my Canyon and love it. I had thought maybe a gimmick but it's superb,super smooth gear changes, always 100% consistant(no cables to stretch etc) and previously I had the habit of looking down to see what gear I was in on the cassette(just a strange quirk of mine). Anyway, now I have a D-Fly unit connected so gear is displayed on my computer. Again could be a novelty but I like it.

As for charging, a full charge lasts a few months depending on how much you use it and also with D-Fly unit get % charge remaining so no excuse to not charge it. Even without you get led indication of full charge/half/running low.

With the correct battery and firmware update you can also set up synchro shifting, not something I have done yet but may try sometime just to see how it is.

Personally I'd definitely go for it again, more expensive but ultimately better. If you think not, why do you think all pro teams have electronic gearing.

milemuncher1

It’s nice to have, and hilarious to be able to stitch people up with ( by leaning over and changing them up, on a climb / disconnecting the battery at a coffee stop ) but largely not that much of a ‘big deal’ for the average ‘Surrey dentist on a Pinarello’.

akh

Two things it can do that mechanical just can't (I'll leave it to you to decide if this is important) are multiple shift locations and customisation.

There's also the possibility for it to interact with other devices, but to the best of my knowledge there's relatively little of that available atm, aside from displaying your gear ratio on your computer.

Matthewfalle

Milemuncher1 wrote:

It’s nice to have, and hilarious to be able to stitch people up with ( by leaning over and changing them up, on a climb / disconnecting the battery at a coffee stop ) but largely not that much of a ‘big deal’ for the average ‘Surrey dentist on a Pinarello’.

Yes. Such hilarity. That sounds like great fun. Up there with an episode of Benny Hill and getting kicked in the testicles.

Woo hoo. Tears of joy.

StillGoing

I was a big sceptic of electric groupsets until a few months ago when I swapped my SRAM stuff for the new R8050 and I wish I'd done it sooner. Smoother and easier shifting than any well set up mechanical, synchronised shifting, no cable stretch, works with Q rings, software updates a doddle and for me with a left arm that goes numb after a while on a bike, front shifting is no problem. Battery life is great and checking it the night before you ride takes seconds by simply pressing a shift lever. If its low, charging is simple. I've used it in the dry and the wet with no issues.

MiddleRinger

Thousands of miles on my older spec 10-speed Di2 through long hot summers and wet, cold, miserable, grimy winters without so much as a single adjustment being made and it still shifts perfectly. Lightening fast shifting, especially on the front. Ability to add sprint/climb shift buttons or TT shifters. It just works. Never run a battery flat out riding.

Is it the be all and end all? No. Is it pretty awesome? Yeah...

milemuncher1

Matthewfalle wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

It’s nice to have, and hilarious to be able to stitch people up with ( by leaning over and changing them up, on a climb / disconnecting the battery at a coffee stop ) but largely not that much of a ‘big deal’ for the average ‘Surrey dentist on a Pinarello’.

Yes. Such hilarity. That sounds like great fun. Up there with an episode of Benny Hill and getting kicked in the testicles.

Woo hoo. Tears of joy.

Don’t knock it ‘til you’ve tried it.

Andymaxy

I think not having to think about the trim of your FD in a race when you are pushing yourself to nearly throwing up is the only real plus, other than that it doesn't make too much difference.

StillGoing

Andymaxy wrote:

I think not having to think about the trim of your FD in a race when you are pushing yourself to nearly throwing up is the only real plus, other than that it doesn't make too much difference.

You obviously haven't used it then or have used it very limitedly.

Andymaxy

philthy3 wrote:

Andymaxy wrote:

I think not having to think about the trim of your FD in a race when you are pushing yourself to nearly throwing up is the only real plus, other than that it doesn't make too much difference.

You obviously haven't used it then or have used it very limitedly.

Ya, I've only used it on my friends bike. But I think I'm about the only one running mechanical dura ace in my local area. I've seen good and bad, just like mechanical systems. There are di2 that shift like crap, and some others are amazing. I'm a mechanic myself, so I set up my own gears. I always make sure my gear are running as smooth as it possibly can be, so it wouldn't make too much of a difference. I'm definitely annoyed that I have to trim the FD though.

Another thing I just thought about is cabling. On my canyon aeroad, the cables routing aren't very smart. The cable has to make very tight bends and that creates a lot of friction, literally destroying the shifting, I think electronic would be better. However, I personally think that the aeroad is simply a bike designed with electronic shifting in mind, and it's not really optimized for mechanical drivetrains.

meursault

For me, it's a luxury item. Shifting is like mouse clicking, it is a beautiful thing.

surfercyclist

Andymaxy wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Andymaxy wrote:

I think not having to think about the trim of your FD in a race when you are pushing yourself to nearly throwing up is the only real plus, other than that it doesn't make too much difference.

You obviously haven't used it then or have used it very limitedly.

Ya, I've only used it on my friends bike. But I think I'm about the only one running mechanical dura ace in my local area. I've seen good and bad, just like mechanical systems. There are di2 that shift like crap, and some others are amazing. I'm a mechanic myself, so I set up my own gears. I always make sure my gear are running as smooth as it possibly can be, so it wouldn't make too much of a difference. I'm definitely annoyed that I have to trim the FD though.

Another thing I just thought about is cabling. On my canyon aeroad, the cables routing aren't very smart. The cable has to make very tight bends and that creates a lot of friction, literally destroying the shifting, I think electronic would be better. However, I personally think that the aeroad is simply a bike designed with electronic shifting in mind, and it's not really optimized for mechanical drivetrains.

You've seen Di2 shifting like crap? Then something must be seriously wrong as once set up it is perfect. When my bike arrived from Germany(Canyon so online order), I had to assemble bike then slightly adjust FD to get it 100% and since then not touched it. Not had to touch RD at all. Had bike one year now and all I've done is charge battery a few times.

StillGoing

Andymaxy wrote:

Ya, I've only used it on my friends bike. But I think I'm about the only one running mechanical dura ace in my local area. I've seen good and bad, just like mechanical systems. There are di2 that shift like crap, and some others are amazing. I'm a mechanic myself, so I set up my own gears. I always make sure my gear are running as smooth as it possibly can be, so it wouldn't make too much of a difference. I'm definitely annoyed that I have to trim the FD though.

Another thing I just thought about is cabling. On my canyon aeroad, the cables routing aren't very smart. The cable has to make very tight bends and that creates a lot of friction, literally destroying the shifting, I think electronic would be better. However, I personally think that the aeroad is simply a bike designed with electronic shifting in mind, and it's not really optimized for mechanical drivetrains.

Shifting like crap? Then whoever assembled it wants sacking if they are a bike mechanic and if they're an amateur enthusiast, should give it to their LBS to do. I installed my set up myself with no previous experience of Di2. Its intuitive to install and that included getting the e-Tubes through the internal bends of carbon bars from the bar end and working with Q rings. Its faultless and requires just a light touch to change gears.

The E-Tube app makes it a simple process to check the battery status too.

cougie

meursault wrote:

For me, it's a luxury item. Shifting is like mouse clicking, it is a beautiful thing.

I thought mice squeak ?

Vino'sGhost

ive got 11 speed mechanical DA on two bikes and havent had to change cables / make more than a minor RD adjustment in 4 years and 35,000 miles.

Cable stretch?????? its hardly present and no real issue. MASSIVE POWER LOSS if you forget to trim the FD LOLOLOLOLOL what rubbish.

On the other hand Di2 is very very bling and im going to buy some

Livewire

In my opinion Di2 is not a huge step ahead of mechanical, I upgraded to Ultegra Di2 back in March and if I could go back in time I would probably go with Dura Ace mechanical over the Ultegra Di2.

Reason being is I maintain my bikes to a high standard so when I was running mechanical the gears worked flawlessly if not as good as Di2, it is nice having buttons to push rather than having to move the whole brake leave to change gears but that alone is not a game changer for me. Admittedly the Di2 FD auto trim is nice along with the semi syncro option I use.

One downside I find with Di2 is changing from smaller to larger chainring, with mechanical I perfected the change to a point where it was smooth as butter by pushing the lever over at a certain point in my pedal stroke (hard to explain). With Di2 I am yet to perfect this so the switch from smaller to larger chain ring can be a little clunky, fingers crossed I can get the timing dialed in so the change from small to big ring is a smooth as it was when using mechanical.

JakeJ

I've ridden a couple of different bikes with Di2 recently and honestly I prefer mechanical.

With mechanical you know how many times you've changed gear, you can hear with each click knowing it's gone back up the cassette that many times. It sounds strange but I just feel like I have more control and more confidence in what gear I'm in with mechanical, the only downside to mechanical is just how far you have to push the shifter to change gear where as Di2 as mentioned in like a computer mouse click and it's changed.

Everyone saying it shifts perfectly and doesn't need touching once set up ect, in my experience if I were in the little ring and up in the 28/30 on the back climbing it would keep jumping down a gear and in the end I had to just hold the shifter button to keep it up in the gear, so made climbing a nightmare because all I were concentrating on is whether the gear was going to change on me.
Same applied for if I were in the big ring, if I got too far up the cassette it would jump back down, I know you shouldn't cross ring but if you weren't concentrating on what gear you were in, it would let you know, whether you like it or not.

I did tell the guys back at the shop about this so hopefully they looked into it, because I think I may be borrowing that bike again for this evenings club ride.

In my opinion the only upsides to Di2 is that you can tell people you have Di2 and the little robot sound the front DR makes when changing from little ring to big is cool.

Other than that, I'm more than happy with mechanical, although, I'd really like to give Etap a go and see what that's like.

joey54321

Livewire wrote:

One downside I find with Di2 is changing from smaller to larger chainring, with mechanical I perfected the change to a point where it was smooth as butter by pushing the lever over at a certain point in my pedal stroke (hard to explain). With Di2 I am yet to perfect this so the switch from smaller to larger chain ring can be a little clunky, fingers crossed I can get the timing dialed in so the change from small to big ring is a smooth as it was when using mechanical.

Then it isn't set up properly, I naturally change front mech at the top dead center from years of riding normal gears but find I don't even need to do that with DI2.

JakeJ wrote:

Everyone saying it shifts perfectly and doesn't need touching once set up ect, in my experience if I were in the little ring and up in the 28/30 on the back climbing it would keep jumping down a gear and in the end I had to just hold the shifter button to keep it up in the gear, so made climbing a nightmare because all I were concentrating on is whether the gear was going to change on me.
Same applied for if I were in the big ring, if I got too far up the cassette it would jump back down, I know you shouldn't cross ring but if you weren't concentrating on what gear you were in, it would let you know, whether you like it or not.

I did tell the guys back at the shop about this so hopefully they looked into it, because I think I may be borrowing that bike again for this evenings club ride.

Again, this is not an issue with DI2, it's an issue with whoever has set it up. It's the equivalent of saying "I don't like Fords because I drove one once and the ride was so bumpy because it a had a flat tyre."

Livewire

Livewire wrote:

joey54321 wrote:

Livewire wrote:

One downside I find with Di2 is changing from smaller to larger chainring, with mechanical I perfected the change to a point where it was smooth as butter by pushing the lever over at a certain point in my pedal stroke (hard to explain). With Di2 I am yet to perfect this so the switch from smaller to larger chain ring can be a little clunky, fingers crossed I can get the timing dialed in so the change from small to big ring is a smooth as it was when using mechanical.

Then it isn't set up properly, I naturally change front mech at the top dead center from years of riding normal gears but find I don't even need to do that with DI2.

You may well be correct but there is no chain rub at all on the FD and it trims perfectly so I can't see how it wouldn't be set up correctly? I am at the point where the gear change from small to large chain ring is perfect 75% of the time so I may just need more practice.

surfercyclist

You don't need to practise changing with Di2, that's part of the beauty of it, once it's working it just works - every time. Something seriously amiss if only 75% changes are good, every change I make is spot on, on cassette or chainring. If it's a new bike or the Di2 was set up for you by LBS, take it back and insist on them sorting it.

Livewire

SurferCyclist wrote:

You don't need to practise changing with Di2, that's part of the beauty of it, once it's working it just works - every time. Something seriously amiss if only 75% changes are good, every change I make is spot on, on cassette or chainring. If it's a new bike or the Di2 was set up for you by LBS, take it back and insist on them sorting it.

Cassette gear changes are perfect every time just like they were on my mechanical groupset. I just don't feel there is any improvement in gear shifting performance over a perfectly set up mechanical groupset. Just my 2 pence worth.

I will re set up the FD at the weekend and see if it makes any improvement.

surfercyclist

A perfectly set up mechanical groupset "should" change as well BUT the big thing is consistency over the long term. A mech set will require adjustment, possible cable changes etc. If you set it up perfectly and maintain it perfectly then yes mechanical be fine. I still prefer Di2...:-)

DavidJB

I've used DI2 on 2 bikes, I now have mechanical on all bikes. I prefer the feel of gear changing, especially on Campagnolo when I'm racing. Saying that I have sram red on my TT bike.

ben@31

I think Di2 is brilliant

PROS
- Wont go out of index normally *
- Requires less servicing
- Easier gear changes, its like a mouse button click rather than swinging the entire brake lever on Shimano 105
- If you hold down the gear change button, it will keep on changing gears one after another from one end of the cassette to the other
- On modern versions of Di2 when you get to the end of the cassette it will now automatically shift the front derailleur then shift the rear derailleur to the other end of the cassette. Basically you can forget all about the front derailleur and just shift up and down.
- With the right Di2 part, some Gamins will display what gears you're in. I surprisingly find this very handy especially in the dark, so I dont have to look down at the cassette to try work it out.

CONS
- Rear derailleur is expensive to replace.
- The battery charger is quite bizarre... Mine didn't come with the charger and the socket on the bike isn't USB shape. So I was forced to buy the Shimano charger separately for a whopping £58. Annoyingly the input into this charger is a USB lead! Basically the charger is an adaptor from USB to another shaped socket .

- On older versions you could just remove the external Di2 battery from your bike and take the battery anywhere to recharge. On newer versions with an internal battery (usually in the seat post) you basically have to move your entire bike to somewhere where a power lead will reach. However since I keep my bike indoors, this isnt a problem.I think Ive seen photos of pro race teams use one of those USB portable power-banks plugged into the Di2 charger.
- * But if the hangar does gets bent in a crash it'll still go out of index, just like any other bike.

MYTHS
- "The battery will run out".... Bulls*it. In reality the battery will easily last for a month. It's only using the battery when you change gear, the rest of the time its sleeping / open circuit. And if the battery does start getting low, the front derailleur will stop working first to keep the rear derailleur shifting until you get home. In years of use Ive never had the battery run out mid ride.

SUMMARY
I love how Di2 changes gears, every time. I'd certainly have it on my next bike (I kept the groupset and just bought a frame)

surfercyclist

Don't need to take bike indoors to charge, I plug the Di2 charger unit into a USB mains adapter and just charge from normal 240v socket in garage. Sorted.

StillGoing

ben@31 wrote:

I think Di2 is brilliant

- If you hold down the gear change button, it will keep on changing gears one after another from one end of the cassette to the other
- On modern versions of Di2 when you get to the end of the cassette it will now automatically shift the front derailleur then shift the rear derailleur to the other end of the cassette. Basically you can forget all about the front derailleur and just shift up and down.
- With the right Di2 part, some Gamins will display what gears you're in. I surprisingly find this very handy especially in the dark, so I dont have to look down at the cassette to try work it out.


SUMMARY
I love how Di2 changes gears, every time. I'd certainly have it on my next bike (I kept the groupset and just bought a frame)

Not quite true. The latest version will auto shift the front onto the big ring when you get to the smallest 4 gears and down to the inner ring when you try to shift into the biggest gear on the back. All designed to try and keep your chain in as straight a line as possible, minimise zapping watts, preserve the life of the rear derailleur and use the optimum gear ratio.

Wahoo devices will show the Di2 gearing too. Personally, I see no use for it, but I appreciate that others might. Wahoo will also show battery life as a percentage to save using the e-Tube app on the phone.

The new Ultegra also has the hidden buttons on the hoods which I programmed to switch screens on the Wahoo ELEMNT.

The downside of it is the expense. I wouldn't go back to mechanical other than on a TT bike, but if I was in the market for another road bike, it'd make convincing the wife a whole lot harder.