Coaching

WattsUp

I'm relatively new to cycling. I've read a number of posts recently on forums that suggest a coach will be a short-cut to getting better. I can possibly see the advantage if I was a few years into the sport and was trying to eke out marginal gains.

But the cost/performance seems to be a pretty poor proposition. One month of coaching seems to run $150-200 at a minimum - for that much I can get a full -year- of TrainerRoad with change left over. For $350 (seems to be the going rate *per month* if you want more than 'one email a week') I could get a year of TrainerRoad, Zwift plus WKO4 or TrainingPeaks or maybe SufferFest plus a couple of 'training with a power meter' books.

I've heard stories of some athletes getting cookie-cutter training plans. I strongly suspect that - especially in the first few years - you'll improve simply by doing -any- plan on a consistent basis.

If someone wants to make the case that a coach is worth $1200-3500 a year and is 12-35x better than a $100/yr TrainerRoad subscription, I'm all ears.

fenix

There are no short cuts.

Just get out on the bike and ride and get some base miles and fitness.

Obviously coaches will say their way is worth doing - they want the cash.

Matthewfalle

Yup - absolutely no short cuts otherwise we'd all be doing it.

Just hard work, grit, determination, shaving your legs and getting out there. All the power wattage apps, coaches and nonsensical tech in the world won't help a bit if the pedals aren't turning.

joey54321

I'd say TraineRoad or perhaps a 'coaching plan' (e.g. RST and Fascat coaching both have 8-12 week 'plans', I'm sure others do to) would be a much better place to start for a relative newcomer. However, it's good to keep a diary and find out which parts of the plan seem to really bring you on, e.g. do you respond to high-intensity intervals or when doing a block of higher volume and lower intensity (sweetspot type work). This is the part you are really paying a coach for IMO.

photonic69

Have you looked at British Cycling Training Plans?

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowl ... ning-plans

Very good. The trouble is you don't have anyone to shout at you to try harder and dig deeper. You have to shout at yourself which can lead people to assume that you are suffering from an acute form of Tourettes Syndrome.

If you are racing then a coach is invaluable to teach you race-craft. A lot of people who race might be very swift but have very poor race-craft. That's when accidents happen.

WattsUp

sorry, double-post (how do I delete?)

WattsUp

Sorry, 'short cut' might have been the wrong phrase. I don't mean 'short cut (that avoids doing the work).

I mean short cut in the 'more efficient/productive' sense.

In other words - will a coach be able to provide a training plan that is so much more effective because it's 'tailored to me' that I get better faster, and it makes up for the 10-25x difference in cost vs, say, a TrainerRoad plan?

Vino'sGhost

WattsUp wrote:

Sorry, 'short cut' might have been the wrong phrase. I don't mean 'short cut (that avoids doing the work).

I mean short cut in the 'more efficient/productive' sense.

In other words - will a coach be able to provide a training plan that is so much more effective because it's 'tailored to me' that I get better faster, and it makes up for the 10-25x difference in cost vs, say, a TrainerRoad plan?

NO is the short answer.

ride your bike, listen to your body, follow a trainer road or training peaks plan aimed to take you from begginer to sportive or whatever you fancy. Ive used coaches good and bad and rate the training peaks product.

Just follow the general gist of it if you find slavish following too difficult and youll get the results you want.

Also to get faster, enjoy yourself more, ride in different areas you DONT need new bikes / gravel bikes / carbon wheels / disc brakes. All of that to a large extent is marketing boll ocks. Nice to have but really not essential.

Good shorts on the other hand.............. priceless

photonic69

Yes, a fully qualified sports coach will be able to provide specific tests and examinations to identify any potential weak areas of your physique and musculature and fitness and target those areas with specific exercises tailored to your body. Anything else is just generic. THAT'S what you are paying them for.

Vino'sGhost

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Yes, a fully qualified sports coach will be able to provide specific tests and examinations to identify any potential weak areas of your physique and musculature and fitness and target those areas with specific exercises tailored to your body. Anything else is just generic. THAT'S what you are paying them for.

No they wouldnt in most cases they just trot out the generic.

imafatman

Here's a bit of free advice for you as you are relatively new to cycling. You don't need a coach, you need a therapist.

Or just get out and ride your bike more. There are lots of free resources online if you want to target specific areas of cycling. Go and join a club and find others to ride with. If you reach a plateau and feel like you need some personal advice to help unlock your potential then a coach might be able to do that. Until that time, it would be a waste of money.

photonic69

Vino'sGhost wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Yes, a fully qualified sports coach will be able to provide specific tests and examinations to identify any potential weak areas of your physique and musculature and fitness and target those areas with specific exercises tailored to your body. Anything else is just generic. THAT'S what you are paying them for.

No they wouldnt in most cases they just trot out the generic.

That's BS Vino. Crap ones maybe but I'm talking about proper, well trained sports coaches who take pride in their work. Do you go around all day doing half arsed jobs or do you produce work you are proud of?

joey54321

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Yes, a fully qualified sports coach will be able to provide specific tests and examinations to identify any potential weak areas of your physique and musculature and fitness and target those areas with specific exercises tailored to your body. Anything else is just generic. THAT'S what you are paying them for.

No they wouldnt in most cases they just trot out the generic.

That's BS Vino. Crap ones maybe but I'm talking about proper, well trained sports coaches who take pride in their work. Do you go around all day doing half arsed jobs or do you produce work you are proud of?

The problem is it's very difficult to tell the difference. Spotting trends, strengths, weaknesses, etc... takes time for a coach, you need to build a relationship with them. How long do you give them before deciding if they are trotting our a generic plan to everyone in their email or specifically tailoring it to you?

Andymaxy

Nothing gets you into shape faster than just go out racing. With that being said you need some foundations, so just go out and ride. Make sure you do some group rides and understand group riding dynamics. After that, just race, don't worry about getting dropped your first season, almost everyone get dropped at some point.

Flâneur

Some of this will depend on whether this is a local coach who is spending time with you, or an online coach who is reviewing training peaks.

If the latter, at this stage it would probably be wiser to use a Trainerroad programme or similar. A structured way to sort your engine out. And watching your diet/speaking to a dietitian.

If you have the option for coached sessions along with the data reviews then you may reap more benefit, depending on your start point. Like many things in life, some are far better than others. Look at the personal training crowd. As stated above a relationship is key and this takes time. Will the coach looking at all the different tests beyond FTP and do they have enough understanding to analyse them against you?

I've seen a fair few coached riders, either racing or at club rides and I suspect most could have gotten similar improvement with common sense or a Trainerroad programme/similar. Those who have gained from a coach tended to have been training and missing areas which support and enhance their riding, or needed technical pointers and insight.

3wheeler

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Have you looked at British Cycling Training Plans?

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowl ... ning-plans

Very good. The trouble is you don't have anyone to shout at you to try harder and dig deeper. You have to shout at yourself which can lead people to assume that you are suffering from an acute form of Tourettes Syndrome.

If you are racing then a coach is invaluable to teach you race-craft. A lot of people who race might be very swift but have very poor race-craft. That's when accidents happen.

^^^^
Lots of good resources and plans on that site for you.

Maybe after a few years if you reach a plateau, have too much money, or are desperate to win races then get yourself a professional coach

kingrollo

Join a club

After while go riding\training with cyclists who are slightly faster than you - provided you have a bit of base fitness you will be surprised how quickly you step up.

IMO - the more numbers and stats you put into cycling the less fun it becomes. Unless of course you want to race.

Vino'sGhost

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Yes, a fully qualified sports coach will be able to provide specific tests and examinations to identify any potential weak areas of your physique and musculature and fitness and target those areas with specific exercises tailored to your body. Anything else is just generic. THAT'S what you are paying them for.

No they wouldnt in most cases they just trot out the generic.

That's BS Vino. Crap ones maybe but I'm talking about proper, well trained sports coaches who take pride in their work. Do you go around all day doing half arsed jobs or do you produce work you are proud of?

Its absoloutley not bullshit. But to use your point, if a half wit with a qualification (bc level one or two for example) believes he’s doing a good job that can be very different from actually doing a good job. Some of these people take themsleves very seriously but mostly dont have a clue beyond a skin deep apreciation. Of course some people with those qualifications or even none at all might be quite good but performance is a very complicated and complex subject.

Skin deep apreciation is of course good enough for most applications and if it makes people feel better then great and for most working people everything is a copmpromise anyway. Thats why when all is said and done for most of us Coaches are a waste of money, there are no magic shortcuts just mistakes you can avoid and all of that can be done very well with a training peaks or similar program.

Trainer road is particularly good at moving people through phases to a target point and costs a fraction of the cost of a trainer.

imposter2.0

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Its absoloutley not bullshit. But to use your point, if a half wit with a qualification (bc level one or two for example) believes he’s doing a good job that can be very different from actually doing a good job.

Not sure if you have misunderstood the BC coaching levels. BC Level 1 and Level 2 coaches are not qualified to provide performance coaching to individuals. Only Level 3 coaches can do that. Level 1 and 2 entitles you to coach skills and techniques in a group environment (which is mostly 'go-ride' club-level youth coaching).

supermurph09

It all depends on what you want to achieve. "I just want to get fitter, faster etc" then you'd be wise to just get as many hours in as you can and enjoy being on the bike. If you feel you've reached a bit of a plateau and wondering how to push on a bit then a plan that mirrors your goals can be still be useful. It'll learn you a bit about structure, probably push you more than if you were just out there riding and give you something meaningful to benchmark against. Cookie cutter, trainer road, sufferfest, zwift would all be decent options.

Once you've got a specific target you want to achieve, that's where a coach will come in. There are good ones and bad ones but do your research and you'll no doubt find one that you feel good about.

58585

You come over as very negative, so I doubt you will get much out of any coach. If you aren’t motivated to work with a coach then you would be wasting your money.

That said, once you get into racing you’ll soon realise if you can get any success on your own training or whether you need some guidance. It’s up to you as a customer to find a coach who offers what you are looking for, and you will have to pay the going rate. A good coach will be doing it full time to pay the bills, and has committed years of learning and practice to build up their knowledge.

If you think a coach is comparable to TrainerRoad then you are definitely looking at the wrong coaches. I don’t think TR asks for your goals and certainly won’t give you any feedback on how you are progressing towards them, for example.