Overpriced?

philofcas2

Been seeing lots and lots of bikes at around 3k pop up in the reviews, for me they’re all overpriced, one of my MTB mates summed it up yesterday, he thinks people buying them have too much money, hence why the prices are so high :evil:

Anyway, just seen the Santa Cruz Chameleon appear in the reviews, now come on folks, how is the price of £2349 justified?

(BTW, my Boardman has a better group set and cost me £720).

Seems to me we’re trying (and succeeding) to be exploited by some manufacturers due to cyclings popularity and increased disposable income.

supersonic

It's a premium brand, with premium pricing - and the market is there for it. It is not a bike I would shortlist as I am a notorious tight *rse, but many will for the name.

What Boardman do you have?

02gf74

Can you list spec of your 700 pound bradman, I assume that was price new and the santa cruz that costs 3x ad much.

I'd be very surprised if you are comparing like for like.

philofcas2

Boardman Pro 29er, Sram GX. Ok, it was £1000 RRP, reduced to £800 in sale and then 10% British Cycling discount, but you see my point.

JGTR

People like to buy nice things and if they want to spend their money on a Santa Cruz then why is that a problem?

People assume because someone owns an expensive bike that they have more money than sense or “too much money”. Smacks a bit of jealousy if I’m honest. Given the choice between a £700 Boardman and £2349 Santa Cruz I know which one I’d have

philofcas2

JGTR wrote:

People like to buy nice things and if they want to spend their money on a Santa Cruz then why is that a problem?

People assume because someone owns an expensive bike that they have more money than sense or “too much money”. Smacks a bit of jealousy if I’m honest. Given the choice between a £700 Boardman and £2349 Santa Cruz I know which one I’d have

And I know which I’d have

My gripe is that a whole rake of manufactures are increasing the price of their offerings purely because people are willing to pay these inflated prices, when the material costs don’t justify it.

If there’s one thing in life I am not, is a jealous person.

steve_sordy

I can see where the OP is coming from. Halfords sell more bikes (including the Boardmans) than just about anyone else in the UK. I have my eye on the Boardman FS for when my grandson grows large enough - I hope they are still making them. So there are lots of them about and that is a problem for some. There is a price to pay for having a bike that you don't see very much, and pretty much any Santa Cruz is in that category.

I entirely agree that once you pay above a certain amount, you don't get twice as a good a bike for spending twice the amount. But generally more money does get you a better bike. It is either rarer (see above), lighter, or stronger. If you spend a fortune, you can get all three!

I also agree that what matters is the engine. There are certain trails where my 10-year old grandson on his 26er hardtail can leaves me for dead for a minute or two. But if it wasn't for the money I'd spent on my two-wheeled mobility aid, it would take longer than a minute or two to catch him!

I'm an old git without a mortgage, and spending more than I should on a bike makes me happy. But more importantly, it gets me around the trails in one piece.

PS: Biking is such a competitive industry that I would find it difficult to accept that manufacturers are clubbing together to put up prices. If they did, it wouldn't take much to break the cartel. For example, there are the disrupters, like all the internet sellers that have done much to bring quality bikes into the reach of so many. If any one of the manufacturers puts up the prices too far, the bike magazines, reviewers, YouTube etc, and word of mouth shoots them down and they lose sales. Much of the big price increases in recent time have been driven by the falling value of the pound.

tallpaul_s

PhilofCas2 wrote:

My gripe is that a whole rake of manufactures are increasing the price of their offerings purely because people are willing to pay these inflated prices, when the material costs don’t justify it.

If there’s one thing in life I am not, is a jealous person.

100% disagree with this - Santa Cruz are notoriously expensive for the spec you get, they're probably the most overpriced brand out there.

However this doesn't mean that the industry as a whole is taking the Micheal with prices, if anything its going the other way with more and more direct brands which offer extremely good value for money.

My bike has a better spec than the chameleon and is £1850 RRP, oh and it's a full suspension bike. Look at other brands and for £2k (give or take £2-300) you can can get a vastly superior spec full suspension.

Then there's the perfectly capable full suspension bikes available for £1000. Yeah, I think times are pretty bloody good for MTB buyers!!

Some people will pay the premium for a 'premium' brand like SC, no-one is forcing you to buy a Santa Cruz, you can pick up a hardtail with the same or better spec for about £1000 cheaper. Supply and demand - if no-one was buying their bikes they wouldn't be able to price then like they do. That doesn't mean you have to accept the price, there's plenty of competition out there...

Of course to a normal person who doesn't ride then anything above £300 on a bike is madness, but they don't realise just how much technology there is on modern bikes.

philofcas2

I get that Paul, good post.

So Santa Cruz are selling for way more just because of their name, someone’s getting dobbed :shock:

One other example is my mates Scott, recently bought ex-dem, hardly a mark on it, the shop put new chain on, refilled tyres, basically did a few bits to bring it back to new. This bike has a RRP of £3100, he paid £1750, at £1750 the manufacturer is happy, the distributor is happy, the shop is happy, so if they’re all happy, then why does the RRP have to be £1350 more??

kirkymtb

My Boardman FS Pro was listed at £1500 but I bought it in a 20% off week (look out for them) at Halfords. It has a full GX transmission , no cheap shifter. An RS Pike fork and Sram Guide brakes. I've been told by a self styled expert that they are just a Carrera with a different badge but that doesn't matter to me. I've ridden plenty of bikes with lower spec for twice the money and they won't get you round my local red route any quicker than the Boardman. I got round in 11.32 a couple of weeks ago but did 11.12 on a 2004 Whyte PRST4. I paid £165 for an as new chassis with linkage fork and 2 Fox shocks. Anything you have is a waste of money compared to that. I built it up from my scrap bucket.
This is my honest opinion. If it's a circuit I get round quicker on the PRST. If it's a downhill I terrify myself. It's horses for courses in this game.

supersonic

In a nutshell, yes. If people are willing to pay it, then the prices will be set as they are. And a lot of people do want the latest, shiniest machine as soon as it is released from a boutique name from a top end shop. Is all about marketing positions and strategy. To some riders a few grand is peanuts and they'll buy what they are told is the best.

There is more to it of course: some bikes are cheaper because of the way they are sold, maybe direct to customers, or as in the case of Halfords and some other shops, in huge volumes through their own retail stores. So there are other variables to price. But we have so much choice across many price points these, with technology trickling down all the time - you don't have to spend top money for top performance anymore.

tallpaul_s

You don't see that many over here, more in the USA though. Plus, if you've got that top of the range Audi estate only a Santa Cruz will do it's all about image and the brand.

Demo bikes are different, not sure how it works with how dealers purchase them, but they're probably supplied by the manufacturer for a reduced cost knowing that it will make the money back in extra sales. An ex demo bike is just a used bike, and so used bike prices should apply. It may be in as new condition but it's still been ridden/crashed/covered in mud by a few people, so new RRP only provides a guide for what the price should be given that it's a 2nd hand bike.

Also, RRP is one thing but I'd never pay RRP for a bike, even buying through a shop I'd try and get 10% off. I've already sized up my next bike, it's £3500 RRP but I'll pick it up in the end of season sales, with the extra 10% off I get it'll be close to £2500 actual price.

philofcas2

Thanks lads, good debate, cheers.

Here’s one that strikes me as a failed price attempt

https://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/transition-patrol-carbon-complete-bike-kit-3, who’s taking the hit on this

sniper68

It's exactly the same with cars.
You'll pay more for an Audi RS4 (circa £60k) than you will a Vauxhall Insignia VXR(circa £32k).
The Audi(like all German cars)is restricted to 155mph whereas the Insignia in good for 170mph+...so why pay almost double for the Audi(or BMW or Merc)?
Is it badge-snobbery?Possibly,probably but who wouldn't rather have a Beemer or Audi than a Vauxhall?
Santa Cruz,Nicolai,Intense etc are expensive but ,hey,it's only money 8) I own a Boardman CX and have no problem with it.I've also built(in the past) a £4.5k Nukeproof FS and had no problem with that.It's personal choice.Whether or not a £3k bike is better than a £1k bike is irrelevant.It's how it makes the owner feel that's relevant 8)
I could go and pay the best part of £10k for a Pinarello Dogma F10.Is it any better than my £3k Canyon Ultimate CF??....probably not.Would it make me a better/faster rider?.....almost definitely not.Would I feel good riding it?.....of course I would...and that is all that matters 8)

sniper68

Double post.

supersonic

PhilofCas2 wrote:

Thanks lads, good debate, cheers.

Here’s one that strikes me as a failed price attempt

https://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/transition-patrol-carbon-complete-bike-kit-3, who’s taking the hit on this

It looks bloody lovely though ;-)

Hargroves had a Scott Scale Ultimate for sale recently, reduced from 6k to 2.5k. I very nearly bought it.

The Rookie

Its the very basis of economics, the supply and demand curves.

Boutique bikes cost more as they are designed and set up to be boutique, lower volume = higher piece cost (for the frame, plus less buying power for everything else), look at the Orange 5 for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

jamski

It's also not just about the components, but the frame, geometry, warranty, service, the R & D that has gone into designing the frame or buying one pretty much off the shelf.

I paid £1000 more for my Bird than my Boardman. Is it £1000 better spec wise, no, is it a better bike and worth the extra, hell yeah!