Bike GPS With Turn-by-Turn

TouringEurope
TouringEurope Posts: 3
edited June 2018 in Road buying advice
Hi all, first time poster, hopefully I won't breach any rules!

I'm setting off to Finland for a 1000km trip around the South of the country. My old Garmin (no idea what model) has packed it in, so I am looking for a new GPS. I was looking at the Garmin 520 Plus (I think it's pretty new). Here is my issue, I would like turn-by-turn instructions, had it on my old Garmin and it was a great help. However, I looked at the map packs for Garmin and the one for Finland costs £179.99!!! I could not believe this. I have saved up for this trip for the last two years, it is costing me a lot of money, it is quite tightly budgeted and I do not want to pay this extra 180 quid.

So, my questions are as follows:
Is the 520 plus a good buy and if so, how can I get turn-by-turn mapping without paying the extortionate rate for a Garmin map of Finland?
Do any of the free maps (e.g. openstreetmap) offer turn-by-turn?
If there are any better buys with good mapping and turn-by-turn, what would you guys recommend?

Comments

  • wongataa
    wongataa Posts: 1,001
    edited May 2018
    You can use Openstreetmap based maps and get the turn by tun with Garmin units. If you are buying the unit in Europe I would have thought it would come with Garmin's Europe bike map (which is based on OSM data).

    You have 2 options - Wahoo or Garmin.
    Wahoo has built maps - B&W only - and doesn't do true TBT and you can't put your own maps on.
    Garmin mapping units - colour screen, can put custom maps on, does true TBT.

    With Wahoo the routes need course points. It displays these when turns come up to tell you which way to go. You also need a paired phone to put routes with directions on the unit. Garmin mapping units (520plus, 8xx, 10xx series) can utilise course points as well but can generate their own direction instructions on the units themselves.
  • Thank you for the reply. From what i've heard, the base map it comes with is not very good (a lot of features missing). But if the openstreetmap works, then i'm all for it. Thanks!
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Not an expert with the 520, but I think it's pretty limited when it comes to mapping. Something to do with the lack of an SD card if I remember correctly.

    It's why I went 810 over 520 a few years ago.
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    wongataa wrote:
    You can use Openstreetmap based maps and get the turn by tun with Garmin units. If you are buying the unit in Europe I would have thought it would come with Garmin's Europe bike map (which is based on OSM data).

    You have 2 options - Wahoo or Garmin.
    Wahoo has built maps - B&W only - and doesn't do true TBT and you can't put your own maps on.
    Garmin mapping units - colour screen, can put custom maps on, does true TBT.

    With Wahoo the routes need course points. It displays these when turns come up to tell you which way to go. You also need a paired phone to put routes with directions on the unit. Garmin mapping units (520plus, 8xx, 10xx series) can utilise course points as well but can generate their own direction instructions on the units themselves.

    Some myths or misunderstandings re the Wahoo above.

    Wahoo does do true turn by turn, you have to use either of Ride with GPS (free version) or Komoot. The monochrome screen is excellent in bright or poor light too. It also comes with the entire world maps included in the price. You don't need to take your phone with you, you download the route to the device from your phone and it is then there until you delete it.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • philthy3 wrote:
    Some myths or misunderstandings re the Wahoo above.

    Wahoo does do true turn by turn, you have to use either of Ride with GPS (free version) or Komoot. The monochrome screen is excellent in bright or poor light too. It also comes with the entire world maps included in the price. You don't need to take your phone with you, you download the route to the device from your phone and it is then there until you delete it.

    I can second all this.

    Plus I found it very hard to distinguish the difference between my route, track and side roads on the colour screen of my old Garmin in bright light when you are wearing strong sunglasses whereas the monochrome screen of the Wahoo is excellent in these conditions.

    What's also worth pointing out is that there are two 'sorts' of navigation. True turn-by-turn and 'breadcrumb tail'. Most people are quite happy with breadcrumbs which the Wahoo can do via strava. If you are following a breadcrumb trail it will still give you an aural alert if you miss a turn and go off course.

    You can also load a breadcrumb trail by loading a GPX file directly via your phone. For example, if you are doing a Sportive, you can download the GPX file from the sportive website on your phone and send it to the Wahoo without using a computer or anything else.

    Whilst the Wahoo doesn't re-route you back on course if you miss a turn I've never found a use for that feature. Both my old Garmin and the Wahoo will give an aural 'off-course' warning within a few feet of the missed turn. You'd have to be pretty stupid not to work out how to get yourself back on course without assistance.
  • cattytown
    cattytown Posts: 647
    Note that if looking at the elemnt, Wahoo are offering £50 cashback. Full discount at Wiggle puts it <>£220, ess the cashback and it's effectively £170.

    https://wahoo-promotions.com/gb/en/pages/cashback/home

    The elemnt seems to have simplicity as its core.
    Giant Defy 2
    Large bloke getting smaller :-)
  • wongataa
    wongataa Posts: 1,001
    philthy3 wrote:
    wongataa wrote:
    You can use Openstreetmap based maps and get the turn by tun with Garmin units. If you are buying the unit in Europe I would have thought it would come with Garmin's Europe bike map (which is based on OSM data).

    You have 2 options - Wahoo or Garmin.
    Wahoo has built maps - B&W only - and doesn't do true TBT and you can't put your own maps on.
    Garmin mapping units - colour screen, can put custom maps on, does true TBT.

    With Wahoo the routes need course points. It displays these when turns come up to tell you which way to go. You also need a paired phone to put routes with directions on the unit. Garmin mapping units (520plus, 8xx, 10xx series) can utilise course points as well but can generate their own direction instructions on the units themselves.

    Some myths or misunderstandings re the Wahoo above.

    Wahoo does do true turn by turn, you have to use either of Ride with GPS (free version) or Komoot.
    Both RwGPS and Komoot put cue points in the route files that the Wahoo uses when it shows the turn instructions. It isn't a bad method but it isn't true turn by turn and it does limit the routeing sites you can use. I'm not saying that this is a bad way to go. Garmin units can generate their own turn instructions with no cue points required. This is true turn by turn. The Garmin units will also switch to a map display approaching a turn with a big arrow overlaid on the map showing which way to go which is useful if there are more than one turn close to each other as you don't have to hope that the next turn instruction pops up in time.
  • wongataa
    wongataa Posts: 1,001
    Dinyull wrote:
    Not an expert with the 520, but I think it's pretty limited when it comes to mapping. Something to do with the lack of an SD card if I remember correctly.

    It's why I went 810 over 520 a few years ago.
    The 520 is indeed limited with mapping. The newly announced 520 plus has proper mapping and routeing like the 8xx aand 10xx series units.
  • patpalloon
    patpalloon Posts: 14
    Another one for Wahoo. I tried out the Garmin 820 Explore but it was so bad I got a refund and went for the Wahoo Bolt. It's been a revelation. The maps are so much clearer especially in sunlight. Integration with RWGPS and Komoot is seamless and it makes navigation a doddle. I used it to navigate the Lon Las Cymru route across Wales. It was faultless. For that I actually worked out the route on Google maps, and then used the gpx file for this so didn't have tbt but it still worked great. And then if I wanted to say look for a campsite off the route just use Komoot or the take me there function on the app. As people have said, worldwide maps with updates are free on Wahoo, plus the battery life is outstanding. you can get 2 days touring on one charge.
    And I got £40 off on Sigma :D
  • 3wheeler
    3wheeler Posts: 110
    wongataa wrote:
    Dinyull wrote:
    Not an expert with the 520, but I think it's pretty limited when it comes to mapping. Something to do with the lack of an SD card if I remember correctly.

    It's why I went 810 over 520 a few years ago.
    The 520 is indeed limited with mapping. The newly announced 520 plus has proper mapping and routeing like the 8xx aand 10xx series units.

    Yes, no point in comparing the 520 anymore unless you're picking one up on the cheap - check out the new 520 Plus - it is more expensive that the Wahoo Bolt since it just came out and is not discounted, but is much improved on the mapping and navigation side, from what I read better than the Wahoo. The Wahoo is probably ok for most.
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 5,834
    Lezyne Super GPS (and I think their other trackers and watches) do turn-by -turn from a pre-planned route, but will also auto-reroute if you go wrong, providing you have a mobile linked up.

    I've not used the feature much on my Super GPS, but it's mostly fine, only time it could be better is when you have to do quick back to back turns like at a staggered crossroads.
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    wongataa wrote:
    philthy3 wrote:
    wongataa wrote:
    You can use Openstreetmap based maps and get the turn by tun with Garmin units. If you are buying the unit in Europe I would have thought it would come with Garmin's Europe bike map (which is based on OSM data).

    You have 2 options - Wahoo or Garmin.
    Wahoo has built maps - B&W only - and doesn't do true TBT and you can't put your own maps on.
    Garmin mapping units - colour screen, can put custom maps on, does true TBT.

    With Wahoo the routes need course points. It displays these when turns come up to tell you which way to go. You also need a paired phone to put routes with directions on the unit. Garmin mapping units (520plus, 8xx, 10xx series) can utilise course points as well but can generate their own direction instructions on the units themselves.

    Some myths or misunderstandings re the Wahoo above.

    Wahoo does do true turn by turn, you have to use either of Ride with GPS (free version) or Komoot.
    Both RwGPS and Komoot put cue points in the route files that the Wahoo uses when it shows the turn instructions. It isn't a bad method but it isn't true turn by turn and it does limit the routeing sites you can use. I'm not saying that this is a bad way to go. Garmin units can generate their own turn instructions with no cue points required. This is true turn by turn. The Garmin units will also switch to a map display approaching a turn with a big arrow overlaid on the map showing which way to go which is useful if there are more than one turn close to each other as you don't have to hope that the next turn instruction pops up in time.

    You're splitting hairs. Turn by turn is turn by turn however it does it. If a turn is coming up, you get a beep notification and the LED lights also indicate in which direction to turn. The Wahoo will jump to the map page for turns if you set it up to do it.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • patpalloon
    patpalloon Posts: 14
    Also Wahoo will do turn by turn instructions if you use the Wahoo app take me there function. So you can navigate somewhere on the spur of the moment. Komoot will also work for this providing you have unlocked the region.
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    For navigation, the Mio 505 is by far and away a lot easier to follow than the Garmin
  • One more vote for the Wahoo. Black and White maps a big bonus in the sun. Battery life like an old Nokia!
  • Another vote for the Wahoo here.

    I paid £160 for mine from Sigma which makes it ridiculously good value.
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,076
    Just dipping into this after a frustrating ride at the weekend with a lot of time spent peering at my paper map at a number of junctions. Also, with a thought for riding in france this summer and future touring trips. Sounds like the Wahoo is a good option especially for not having to pay out for additional maps. All my friends ride with Garmin but seems like the Wahoo is cheaper and better in several respects?
  • It seems like almost every week on my clubs group ride another person has ditched their Garmin and bought a Wahoo. Make of that what you will...


    (And yes, I know anecdote!=data But, still... :mrgreen: )
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Few years ago I got the Garmin Touring Plus because it came with full European maps and would do turn by turn. It's pretty good at following a route created in RidewithGPS, and battery life is OK. But it's fiddly to change things in settings and I've never managed to use it for navigating on the fly, plus it has no wireless connectivity so everything needs to be done via USB cable / pc. And map updates take hours.

    So if I was buying today I'd be getting a Wahoo...
  • 3wheeler
    3wheeler Posts: 110
    Just dipping into this after a frustrating ride at the weekend with a lot of time spent peering at my paper map at a number of junctions. Also, with a thought for riding in france this summer and future touring trips. Sounds like the Wahoo is a good option especially for not having to pay out for additional maps. All my friends ride with Garmin but seems like the Wahoo is cheaper and better in several respects?

    Have you read reviews of the bolt Vs 520 plus? Bolt is currently cheaper, but looks like it's not better at everything - particularly navigation.
  • mamil314
    mamil314 Posts: 1,103
    The new Sigma unit might be worth considering, review available on DC Rainmaker's site.
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,076
    3wheeler wrote:
    Just dipping into this after a frustrating ride at the weekend with a lot of time spent peering at my paper map at a number of junctions. Also, with a thought for riding in france this summer and future touring trips. Sounds like the Wahoo is a good option especially for not having to pay out for additional maps. All my friends ride with Garmin but seems like the Wahoo is cheaper and better in several respects?

    Have you read reviews of the bolt Vs 520 plus? Bolt is currently cheaper, but looks like it's not better at everything - particularly navigation.

    Hm yeh, think I still might go for the Wahoo given all the comments I've read from people comparing the two.
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    3wheeler wrote:
    Just dipping into this after a frustrating ride at the weekend with a lot of time spent peering at my paper map at a number of junctions. Also, with a thought for riding in france this summer and future touring trips. Sounds like the Wahoo is a good option especially for not having to pay out for additional maps. All my friends ride with Garmin but seems like the Wahoo is cheaper and better in several respects?

    Have you read reviews of the bolt Vs 520 plus? Bolt is currently cheaper, but looks like it's not better at everything - particularly navigation.

    How is not better at navigation then? Is this all those users that can't ride without a colour screen and don't get that the monochrome screen makes it easier to read in all light conditions perhaps? The Wahoo ELEMNT series performs navigation as well as anyone needs riding a bike. Yes, you need to use a FREE Ride with gps account for turn by turn navigation otherwise you just get a breadcrumb trail. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have the map screen on when riding. I want my data and when a turn is coming up, I hear the beep of the device, look down to see the map and turn indicator with the LED lights flashing in the direction to turn.

    The Wahoo has several advantages over the Garmin 520 and 520 Plus in that it contains the entire world maps as part of the purchase price and doesn't have a restricted memory. Wahoo's reliability also knocks Garmin for six.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • 3wheeler
    3wheeler Posts: 110
    philthy3 wrote:
    3wheeler wrote:
    Just dipping into this after a frustrating ride at the weekend with a lot of time spent peering at my paper map at a number of junctions. Also, with a thought for riding in france this summer and future touring trips. Sounds like the Wahoo is a good option especially for not having to pay out for additional maps. All my friends ride with Garmin but seems like the Wahoo is cheaper and better in several respects?

    Have you read reviews of the bolt Vs 520 plus? Bolt is currently cheaper, but looks like it's not better at everything - particularly navigation.

    How is not better at navigation then? Is this all those users that can't ride without a colour screen and don't get that the monochrome screen makes it easier to read in all light conditions perhaps? The Wahoo ELEMNT series performs navigation as well as anyone needs riding a bike. Yes, you need to use a FREE Ride with gps account for turn by turn navigation otherwise you just get a breadcrumb trail. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have the map screen on when riding. I want my data and when a turn is coming up, I hear the beep of the device, look down to see the map and turn indicator with the LED lights flashing in the direction to turn.

    The Wahoo has several advantages over the Garmin 520 and 520 Plus in that it contains the entire world maps as part of the purchase price and doesn't have a restricted memory. Wahoo's reliability also knocks Garmin for six.

    You can read about it here: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/04/han ... pping.html

    Looks like the Garmin comes loaded with the complete detailed maps for your region e.g. Europe, which I'd guess is enough for most people.

    The option to use trailforks is really useful. Most apps that create routes for the bolt struggle with tracks that are not marked as roads.

    I have a bolt and from looking at the screens the map display on the garmin is clearer. One annoying thing with the bolt with it not being touch screen is you can zoom out to see more map, but you lose the detail, you have no way of scrolling around the map. Re-routing looks better on the garmin.

    All depends on what you use it for, but while the bolt is ok I can definitely imagine how it (or a competitor product) has room for being improved.
  • StillGoing
    StillGoing Posts: 5,211
    Ride with gps will take you down tracks, so I'm not sure where that comes from? I've had countless Garmin's and the Wahoo monochrome screen is far clearer in bright and dull light. The memory capacity of the 520 series is still to be addressed.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.