Difference between types of steel

BikeBerlin

Hello everybody,
I am new to this forum and this is my first post, so be patient with my lack of knowledge in some fields of bikeology
I have been thinking about buying a new steel frame for a road bike which I will use for my daily way to work, approx. 30km, and some smaller tours on the weekend. So I did some research, if one can call it that way, about the different types of steels used for bike building.

As regards important criteria for a bike for daily use such as corrosion resistance (stainless vs. the rest), fatigue resistance (the same for all types?), toughness there are probably quite objective , quantifiable values for each type of steel. E.g. Stainless steel is…stainless, i.e. less worries about corrosion. I am considering buying a stainless steel frame, since the longevity of the frame is important to me. On the other hand, there are many frames from 80s around without any rust on them…

Now, ride quality. All too often the discussions about steel types are about personal preferrences, but as far as I know the quality of ride with a bike depends a lot on the skills of the frame-builder, i.e. geometry, tubing, that the material is put where it needs to be put. It’s hard to tell which part of the ride quality really comes down to a certain type of steel used. Or am I wrong?

I am very thankful for advice, hints to interesting websites, blogs or any other knowledge resources.

sungod

best is to read what some of the providers say...
http://www.columbustubi.com/eng/3_3.htm
https://www.aubertduval.com/wp-media/up ... b_APX4.pdf (afaik this is what becomes xcr tubing)
http://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/mater ... eel/s-953/
http://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/wp-co ... xtract.pdf

stainless has high corrosion resistance, but that's not really why it is used for a frame - columbus xcr and the similar reynolds 953 are sometimes called 'super steels', they are stronger than titanium and don't have the fatigue issues that can eventually affect ti, they allow a steel frame to be much lighter

ride quality is largely up to the frame builder

if maintained, a 'normal' steel frame will last just as long as a stainless one

for commuting, i'd consider getting a used bike, as risk of damage/theft is probably higher, and if you want a steel frame build that up for longer weekend/holiday riding

fwiw i have an xcr frame, with the thin wall/high strength tubing it rings like a bell if you ping it with a finger, i'm tall so it's large but the whole bike is still only a bit over 7kg, the ride is lovely, after 8 years of year-round riding still perfect, no plans to change it!

imposter2.0

sungod wrote:

ride quality is largely up to the tyres

FTFY

crankycrank

I'm no steel expert but have some basic knowledge of the different types out there. Would agree that the construction is the most important but different steels do have detectable differences in ride quality. Tires do make a big difference but frame material and construction make a big difference too. I have had two bikes made a few years apart by the same builder with identical sizes, geometry and construction including the same lugs and tube diameters. One was made with the old 651 (now 653) Reynolds steel and one with a mix of 753 and 853. The 853 is much stiffer and just has more of a taught feel to it but still a beautifully smooth ride. I know some claim steel is steel and construction is the only difference but from many years of experience riding different bikes I would have to disagree and it's common to use two or three different versions of steel in a single frameset and even tube brands are mixed. Anyways this is all a little irrelevant as the best way to select a bike is to ride it and see how it feels rather than what it's made of. If you're looking for a custom then speak to some of the builders and let them know what you want in a bike and let them make the choice of steel and select the builder that you like the best. Stainless is very nice but not necessary to spend the extra money for durability purposes. Any of the med. grade or better steels have very good corrosion resistance so as long as they're being treated with a minimum of maintenance and not stored in a swimming pool they will last decades.

imposter2.0

crankycrank wrote:

One was made with the old 651 (now 653) Reynolds steel and one with a mix of 753 and 853.

Do you mean 631? As far as I'm aware, there has never been a tubeset with the designation '651'. 653 (again, as far as I'm aware) has only ever been referred to as 653, and it was a mixed tubeset anyway.

crankycrank

Ah, yes. 651 is correct. That old frame is probably still holding up better than my brain.

imposter2.0

crankycrank wrote:

Ah, yes. 651 is correct. That old frame is probably still holding up better than my brain.

You mean 631, right?

cycleclinic

What the ride differences there are down to the tube cross sections. What cross sections are possible depends on the type of steel used. Stainless can be drawn into thin large tubes. 531 never has which means it probably can't for this application.

webboo

Given what the O/P is planning to ride they will be fine with Japanese gas pipes as tubing.

Moonbiker

Tange prestige is underated.

crankycrank

Imposter wrote:

crankycrank wrote:

Ah, yes. 651 is correct. That old frame is probably still holding up better than my brain.

You mean 631, right?

Sorry, yes. Time for my coffee.

sungod

Webboo wrote:

...with Japanese gas pipes as tubing.

i think that's already a bespoke option catering to the hoxton beardies

FatTed

Have a look at this article, I have a bike made from Columbus spirit for lugs, very nice.
http://www.habcycles.com/m7.html

warrior4life

Id love to hearfron people who have real experience riding steel frames.
Ive used 501, 531 and I had a Raleigh Dyna Tech frame in the mid 90’s.
There was very little difference in the ride between any of them. I always wondered if a top end frame would feel better.
Looking back I loved riding all three when seated on the flat and i felt i could get in to a nice rythm. On the hills and when out of the saddle all three where sluggish and too flexy.

Moonbiker

My "gas pipe" cromoly frame had less had flex than my current ribble evo.

BikeBerlin

@FatTed
thanks for the great article! Sums up what I have been assuming. Other factors than the exact steel types seem to be much more important for ride quality, e.g. what the frame builder does with the steel type...and components.

Which of course still leaves open difference answers to the question whether more expensive steel types have other advantages than super improved ride quality: toughness, longevity...

pblakeney

warrior4life wrote:

Id love to hearfron people who have real experience riding steel frames.
Ive used 501, 531 and I had a Raleigh Dyna Tech frame in the mid 90’s.
There was very little difference in the ride between any of them. I always wondered if a top end frame would feel better.
Looking back I loved riding all three when seated on the flat and i felt i could get in to a nice rythm. On the hills and when out of the saddle all three where sluggish and too flexy.

My Colnago Master certainly has much less flex than my old Raleigh 531c had.
Don't ask what grade of steel it is made from though as I have no idea.

FatTed

PBlakeney wrote:

warrior4life wrote:

Id love to hearfron people who have real experience riding steel frames.
Ive used 501, 531 and I had a Raleigh Dyna Tech frame in the mid 90’s.
There was very little difference in the ride between any of them. I always wondered if a top end frame would feel better.
Looking back I loved riding all three when seated on the flat and i felt i could get in to a nice rythm. On the hills and when out of the saddle all three where sluggish and too flexy.

My Colnago Master certainly has much less flex than my old Raleigh 531c had.
Don't ask what grade of steel it is made from though as I have no idea.

My present bike (Columbus spirit for lugs) is a nicer ride than my Colnago Master, much the same geometry, but a better size. My "Master" had a "Columbus" sticker on the down tube. Thank the Lord my newer bike is better, it cost half a fortune.

cougie

As has been said any frame would do you. Fwiw my giant TCR carbon frame was much more plush a ride than 853 with carbon forks and will last as long as you want it to.