Canyon Endurace a little aggressive: what is the next choice?

Cotterend

I'm trying a Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8. I think the riding position could be a little aggressive for me, changing from a Giant Defy 2 Composite, giving me wrist and fore-arm pain. Down in the drops, geometry I find great, very powerful, but up on the bars and the hoods, too much pain.

I'm not entirely sure of this diagnosis, as the geometry is very similar, the handlebars being perhaps 1" lower on the Canyon. Would this make so much difference? It may be the saddle, which is very dished, not allowing me to move back and forwards on it as I need to. I don't have much chance to experiment given the trial conditions are that the bike must be returned 'new' for refund.

Other than this problem, and Canyon's absolutely terrible service, the bike is wonderful if ugly. Handling, braking, ride, all superb. Noisy freewheel, but that's down to the Shimano Ultegra.

What should I look at instead that offers a slightly more relaxed geometry but still offers such great performance?

imafatman

I'd be surprised if any box'ed bike fit you perfectly out of the box.

Things like swapping stems for different reach/rise, saddle adjustment, seat layback etc.. are all things that will make an uncomfortable bike comfortable without having to buy a different frame.

This may not be the right bike for you but it's worth considering when looking for your new bike.

grenw

I moved from a Alu Defy to an Endurace and it's definitely a little longer and lower at the front. Works great for me though and so much more comfortable - just as well with the integrated stem/bars not allowing for much adjustment at the front. Can't comment on the saddle as I swapped mine straight out. Flite with a cutout.

Mine came with a layback post. Perhaps try a straight one? Those carbon leaf ones are very expensive though so maybe a 'disposable' aluminium one first?

Another Defy would seem the obvious route if you can't get on with the Canyon?

Cotterend

imafatman wrote:

I'd be surprised if any box'ed bike fit you perfectly out of the box.

Things like swapping stems for different reach/rise, saddle adjustment, seat layback etc.. are all things that will make an uncomfortable bike comfortable without having to buy a different frame.

GrenW wrote:

I moved from a Alu Defy to an Endurace and it's definitely a little longer and lower at the front. Works great for me though and so much more comfortable - just as well with the integrated stem/bars not allowing for much adjustment at the front.

So, can the front end be adjusted much with swap outs?

GrenW wrote:

Another Defy would seem the obvious route if you can't get on with the Canyon?

Yes, another Defy would indeed be a sensible first choice, if only the local Giant shop would let me try one. But they won't: I have to order it and if I don't like, they'll refund me but I'm stuck with another bike from their shop: another Giant. In France, you don't get your money back. Similar story for Cannondale, etc. Canyon's online service with a month's trial at least lets me find out if I want to move on from the old Defy, and the answer is yes, it is time.

So, I have a baseline: the Defy was good, the Canyon a little too low at the front. A back injury has shortened my reach and my Defy is M/L while the Canyon is M. So a M Defy would be a good choice, but what else might offer a similar geometry?

GrenW wrote:

Mine came with a layback post. Perhaps try a straight one? Those carbon leaf ones are very expensive though so maybe a 'disposable' aluminium one first?

This model Canyon has the leaf spring seat post, but I can't say it seems to be very effective. The bumps through the handlebars seem to be about the same as the bumps through the saddle, you know the way if you think a tyre might be soft, you ride over a bump and check the difference between front and back, you can feel if its different. I'd have thought with the seat post, the back should have felt softer.

tangerineowl

Focus Paralane disk or Cervelo C3 disk.

surfercyclist

Noisy freewheel won't be the Ultegra, assume you have DT Swiss wheels on it? If so the freehubs they use are noisy, mine certainly is!

grenw

SurferCyclist wrote:

Noisy freewheel won't be the Ultegra, assume you have DT Swiss wheels on it? If so the freehubs they use are noisy, mine certainly is!

Yep. Mine has DT 240 hubs on it. Make a right racket!

Cotterend wrote:

This model Canyon has the leaf spring seat post, but I can't say it seems to be very effective. The bumps through the handlebars seem to be about the same as the bumps through the saddle, you know the way if you think a tyre might be soft, you ride over a bump and check the difference between front and back, you can feel if its different. I'd have thought with the seat post, the back should have felt softer.

Mine feels soft at the rear- still after 2 years riding it. Softer than the Defy's D-Fuse post. That said the front gets rid of a lot of buzz too without feeling soft although I put that down to the integrated carbon bars/stem

Might be the 28s more than anything

Cotterend

GrenW wrote:

SurferCyclist wrote:

Noisy freewheel won't be the Ultegra, assume you have DT Swiss wheels on it? If so the freehubs they use are noisy, mine certainly is!

Swiss wheels, yes, really annoying they are!

GrenW wrote:

Mine feels soft at the rear- still after 2 years riding it. Softer than the Defy's D-Fuse post. That said the front gets rid of a lot of buzz too without feeling soft although I put that down to the integrated carbon bars/stem

Might be the 28s more than anything

Tried to swap out the 28s for 25s this morning, found you can't use 'normal' tyre levers on these wheels, couldn't do the job

joe2008

Cotterend wrote:

GrenW wrote:

SurferCyclist wrote:

Noisy freewheel won't be the Ultegra, assume you have DT Swiss wheels on it? If so the freehubs they use are noisy, mine certainly is!

Swiss wheels, yes, really annoying they are!(

Grease the ratchets then they will be much quieter.

Great hubs, will last forever and a day.

ricky_h-2

Given you mention being in pain earlier, have you had or considered something like a retul bike fit ? At the end of it ? Best £150 I have spent and you shouldn't be in pain at the end of it

imafatman

Yeah as above - if you are getting pain then you ought to get a bike fit and then choose your bike based on the fit or buy a bike which can be adjusted to suit.

Given your position and inability to test bikes locally this seems like the better, if more expensive and time consuming solution.

Once you have your bike fit measurements it makes shopping for bikes a bit easier, at least you know straight away what you need to adjust to get comfortable.

surfercyclist

joe2008 wrote:

Cotterend wrote:

GrenW wrote:

SurferCyclist wrote:

Noisy freewheel won't be the Ultegra, assume you have DT Swiss wheels on it? If so the freehubs they use are noisy, mine certainly is!

Swiss wheels, yes, really annoying they are!(

Grease the ratchets then they will be much quieter.

Great hubs, will last forever and a day.

Slight hijack of thread but anyway, I have DT Swiss wheels with 240 hubs and while the freehub is noisy it doesn't bother me but after having bike for a year now riding summer and winter I was planning on checking/regreasing hub so was wondering if you have the same do you use the Special Red grease DT Swiss recommend or something else? Also, from all info I've seen (from DT Swiss and others), a minimal amount of grease should be used on ratchets. More is not better apparently.

Cotterend

Ricky h wrote:

Given you mention being in pain earlier, have you had or considered something like a retul bike fit ? At the end of it ? Best £150 I have spent and you shouldn't be in pain at the end of it

Yes, you may be right.

I've drawn out the bike geometries, Defy and Canyon, and found out that the change is not the manufacture, it is the fact that I've dropped the frame size down from ML to M. This drops the handlebars by 25mm while leaving the crank about in the same place, with respect to the saddle. It doesn't shorten it at all. The Defy size M is the same as the Canyon M, within millimetres.

OK, see what other bike geometries look like and research bike fits.

joe2008

SurferCyclist wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Cotterend wrote:

GrenW wrote:

SurferCyclist wrote:

Noisy freewheel won't be the Ultegra, assume you have DT Swiss wheels on it? If so the freehubs they use are noisy, mine certainly is!

Swiss wheels, yes, really annoying they are!(

Grease the ratchets then they will be much quieter.

Great hubs, will last forever and a day.

Slight hijack of thread but anyway, I have DT Swiss wheels with 240 hubs and while the freehub is noisy it doesn't bother me but after having bike for a year now riding summer and winter I was planning on checking/regreasing hub so was wondering if you have the same do you use the Special Red grease DT Swiss recommend or something else? Also, from all info I've seen (from DT Swiss and others), a minimal amount of grease should be used on ratchets. More is not better apparently.

Yes, I use the DT red grease. Simple job, pull off the hub, no tools needed, clean out any muck that's got in there, and apply a small amount of grease to the ratchets.

Cotterend

Cotterend wrote:

I've drawn out the bike geometries, Defy and Canyon, and found out that the change is not the manufacture, it is the fact that I've dropped the frame size down from ML to M. This drops the handlebars by 25mm while leaving the crank about in the same place, with respect to the saddle. It doesn't shorten it at all. The Defy size M is the same as the Canyon M, within millimetres.

I've turned the stem over: it is +/- 6°, which means I get an inch of lift Back to the geometry of my old bike. Now to try to get out between showers and try it!

grenw

Cotterend wrote:

Tried to swap out the 28s for 25s this morning, found you can't use 'normal' tyre levers on these wheels, couldn't do the job

Not had problem with mine - DT Swiss RR21 wheels.

Had to swap a couple of tubes (not had the whole tyre off mind) and was fine using Park Tools blue plastic levers.

surfercyclist

joe2008 wrote:

SurferCyclist wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Cotterend wrote:

GrenW wrote:

SurferCyclist wrote:

Noisy freewheel won't be the Ultegra, assume you have DT Swiss wheels on it? If so the freehubs they use are noisy, mine certainly is!

Swiss wheels, yes, really annoying they are!(

Grease the ratchets then they will be much quieter.

Great hubs, will last forever and a day.

Slight hijack of thread but anyway, I have DT Swiss wheels with 240 hubs and while the freehub is noisy it doesn't bother me but after having bike for a year now riding summer and winter I was planning on checking/regreasing hub so was wondering if you have the same do you use the Special Red grease DT Swiss recommend or something else? Also, from all info I've seen (from DT Swiss and others), a minimal amount of grease should be used on ratchets. More is not better apparently.

Yes, I use the DT red grease. Simple job, pull off the hub, no tools needed, clean out any muck that's got in there, and apply a small amount of grease to the ratchets.

Cheers joe2008. One other thing, did you leave cassette on and just pull that off with hub end or did you remove cassette first?

joe2008

SurferCyclist wrote:

Cheers joe2008. One other thing, did you leave cassette on and just pull that off with hub end or did you remove cassette first?

Leave the cassette on, gives you something to grip.

I clean and grease every couple of months, more often in winter. Keeps them humming happily.

I have one wheelset with 18 tooth ratchets, and another with 36 and the sound is quite different; I think the 36 is a higher pitched buzz.

Cotterend

Bike much more comfortable, looking more like a keeper now! Once decided, I'll see if I can grease the hub into better behaviour.