We still have to understand my condition SPOILER

Vino'sGhost

We still have to understand my condition. CHAVES at the end of yesterday’s stage where he lost 25 mins.

Wtf does that mean??????

larkim

Vino'sGhost wrote:

We still have to understand my condition. CHAVES at the end of yesterday’s stage where he lost 25 mins.

Wtf does that mean??????

It means someone without English as his first language hasn't yet chatted with his docs to find out more why he wasn't able to hang out with the peleton for the day and is being asked by the media for a precise answer.

The_Boy

They don't know why he shipped so much time. Or they do know, and don't know if he'll get back on form.

specialgueststar

There was a Strava? graph showing Chaves and Jeremy Roy both whom got dropped at the same point . However Roy manged to get back on 25k later after recovering and chasing. There was a blip on Chaves like I'll give it a go then it drops off a cliff.

He wasn't just tired he was banjoed

inseine

He's such a tiny guy, what chance did he have? When Yates thanks the 'big guys' in the team he isn't kidding.

DeVlaeminck

Shows the disadvantage of not being sole leader, had the whole team been back there working along with Quickstep, including Yates, chances are they'd have got him back in.

It seems very odd if he was ok for the rest of the stage, wondered if maybe he'd necked a couple of gels just before the start thinking it'd help with the hard start and then suffered a sugar crash just as the racing was really on, once he was gapped he may have thought it wiser not to make a big solo effort and then it's too late.

Vino'sGhost

But they did send a large chunk of the team back for him, he got much closer then they drilled it on the front of the peloton to finish him off. Like a masterful bullfight he was doomed.

I wonder if he has the mental tennacity for the leaders position.

DeVlaeminck

Vino'sGhost wrote:

But they did send a large chunk of the team back for him, he got much closer then they drilled it on the front of the peloton to finish him off. Like a masterful bullfight he was doomed.

I wonder if he has the mental tennacity for the leaders position.

They sent some back there were at least three more in the lead group if you include Yates - given they got it down to about a minute there has to be a fair chance they'd have closed it down.

No_Ta_Doctor

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

But they did send a large chunk of the team back for him, he got much closer then they drilled it on the front of the peloton to finish him off. Like a masterful bullfight he was doomed.

I wonder if he has the mental tennacity for the leaders position.

They sent some back there were at least three more in the lead group if you include Yates - given they got it down to about a minute there has to be a fair chance they'd have closed it down.

But everyone else took turns on the front of the peloton. It barely matters how many riders you've got going back to help when the entire peloton decides to put you out of the race.

DeVlaeminck

No tA Doctor wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

But they did send a large chunk of the team back for him, he got much closer then they drilled it on the front of the peloton to finish him off. Like a masterful bullfight he was doomed.

I wonder if he has the mental tennacity for the leaders position.

They sent some back there were at least three more in the lead group if you include Yates - given they got it down to about a minute there has to be a fair chance they'd have closed it down.

But everyone else took turns on the front of the peloton. It barely matters how many riders you've got going back to help when the entire peloton decides to put you out of the race.

Well we'll have to disagree, I didn't see the entire peloton taking turns and if they had two teams chasing there has to be more chance of getting back than a few Mitchelton Scott helping out QS.

m.r.m.

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Shows the disadvantage of not being sole leader, had the whole team been back there working along with Quickstep, including Yates, chances are they'd have got him back in.

It seems very odd if he was ok for the rest of the stage, wondered if maybe he'd necked a couple of gels just before the start thinking it'd help with the hard start and then suffered a sugar crash just as the racing was really on, once he was gapped he may have thought it wiser not to make a big solo effort and then it's too late.

Seems unlikely. He would have eaten proper food before and not relied on gels. Early climb can easily be planned for nutritionally. Think post rest day legs or allergies are much more likely.

Matt White said in an interview the peloton put the hammer down once they saw Chaves ("the second on GC") down.

DeVlaeminck

M.R.M. wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Shows the disadvantage of not being sole leader, had the whole team been back there working along with Quickstep, including Yates, chances are they'd have got him back in.

It seems very odd if he was ok for the rest of the stage, wondered if maybe he'd necked a couple of gels just before the start thinking it'd help with the hard start and then suffered a sugar crash just as the racing was really on, once he was gapped he may have thought it wiser not to make a big solo effort and then it's too late.

Seems unlikely. He would have eaten proper food before and not relied on gels. Early climb can easily be planned for nutritionally. Think post rest day legs or allergies are much more likely.

Matt White said in an interview the peloton put the hammer down once they saw Chaves ("the second on GC") down.

Yes I agree it seems an unlikely mistake I just can't see anything that does seem an obvious reason for a climber of his ability to get dropped in that situation and then feel ok, I suppose the question is was he really recovered later in the stage or was he just riding at lower intensity. Apparently he was one of the first out warming up on rollers.

Matt White is right that the bunch pushed on but they got the gap down after that but ran out of men in the chase - yes the peloton may have committed more to the push if needed but watching it at the time it did look like they were going to salvage it so 4 more riders going full gas...you never know.

rick_chasey

Having your second rider 3rd on GC is about as tactically useful as it gets.

pblakeney

Another silver lining is that it gives him free reign to go for the climbers jersey, if his legs are up for it.
Also means other teams have to chase him down giving Yates a tow.

Vino'sGhost

PBlakeney wrote:

Another silver lining is that it gives him free reign to go for the climbers jersey, if his legs are up for it.
Also means other teams have to chase him down giving Yates a tow.

Except of course that he doesnt seem to have the legs and B, none of the GC contenders teams will chase him anyway, especially as hes 20 mins down and zero threat.

The teams after the climbers jersey might but they havent got much fire power. I think Chavez is neutralised aprt from hi potential as a super domestique in the mountains if he can fulfil that role. Chavez day in the sun is yet to come.

blazing_saddles

Vino'sGhost wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Another silver lining is that it gives him free reign to go for the climbers jersey, if his legs are up for it.
Also means other teams have to chase him down giving Yates a tow.

Except of course that he doesnt seem to have the legs and B, none of the GC contenders teams will chase him anyway, especially as hes 20 mins down and zero threat.

The teams after the climbers jersey might but they havent got much fire power. I think Chavez is neutralised aprt from hi potential as a super domestique in the mountains if he can fulfil that role. Chavez day in the sun is yet to come.

Nope.
Bare in mind that after the ITT, rolls will probably be reversed, with Sunweb towing the bunch and MS chasing the game.
He's no use sitting in that bunch, carrying water, then when Sunweb are down, towing the remaining GC contenders towards the final assault.
They have Haig and Kreuziger for that, plus Nieve, if they choose.
Much better to throw him (and Nieve) up the road in breaks and play the card that worked so well on Etna.
The KoM jersey points will be the added bonus.

rick_chasey

I can really recommend pro cycling manager on the hardest setting guys.

blazing_saddles

Rick Chasey wrote:

I can really recommend pro cycling manager on the hardest setting guys.

Can it make a dead man get up and walk?

Funnily enough, our very own Brian Smith said pretty much the same thing about Chaves and Nieve on Eurosport's post stage wrap, just now.
Big question mark over Chavito after today, though.
Finished dead last today. 5 minutes behind crash victim Docker.

pblakeney

Vino'sGhost wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Another silver lining is that it gives him free reign to go for the climbers jersey, if his legs are up for it.
Also means other teams have to chase him down giving Yates a tow.

Except of course that he doesnt seem to have the legs and B, none of the GC contenders teams will chase him anyway, especially as hes 20 mins down and zero threat.

The teams after the climbers jersey might but they havent got much fire power. I think Chavez is neutralised aprt from hi potential as a super domestique in the mountains if he can fulfil that role. Chavez day in the sun is yet to come.

I see you missed the big IF in my post.
You agree with me otherwise that the climbers jersey could be his. If.

RichN95.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Nope.
Bare in mind that after the ITT, rolls will probably be reversed, with Sunweb towing the bunch and MS chasing the game.
He's no use sitting in that bunch, carrying water, then when Sunweb are down, towing the remaining GC contenders towards the final assault.
They have Haig and Kreuziger for that, plus Nieve, if they choose.
Much better to throw him (and Nieve) up the road in breaks and play the card that worked so well on Etna.
The KoM jersey points will be the added bonus.

The problem with getting teammates of GC riders in the break is that if they and the others are not a threat on GC the other teams will just let them go. So you end up with a rider too far up the road to be any use beyond challenging for the stage win.

rick_chasey

It is odd how quickly the arse has fallen out of Chavez’s form.

And not just a bad day either. He’s lost it. Very odd.

I like orica for showing the world that two leaders is tactically effective, and I’m a lil disappointed they couldn’t show how. I’ve been making the point for years but with only the useless T Mobile, Schlecks and frightened Movistar as evidence I’ve been looking (more) like a raving mad loon.

bobmcstuff

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I can really recommend pro cycling manager on the hardest setting guys.

Can it make a dead man get up and walk?

Funnily enough, our very own Brian Smith said pretty much the same thing about Chaves and Nieve on Eurosport's post stage wrap, just now.
Big question mark over Chavito after today, though.
Finished dead last today. 5 minutes behind crash victim Docker.

Gotta be ill, no?

pblakeney

Taxi for Chaves.

Vino'sGhost

Rick Chasey wrote:

It is odd how quickly the ars* has fallen out of Chavez’s form.

And not just a bad day either. He’s lost it. Very odd.

I like orica for showing the world that two leaders is tactically effective, and I’m a lil disappointed they couldn’t show how. I’ve been making the point for years but with only the useless T Mobile, Schlecks and frightened Movistar as evidence I’ve been looking (more) like a raving mad loon.

Maybe he has some disease or something but i also wonder wether his hearts just not in it.

bobmcstuff

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It is odd how quickly the ars* has fallen out of Chavez’s form.

And not just a bad day either. He’s lost it. Very odd.

I like orica for showing the world that two leaders is tactically effective, and I’m a lil disappointed they couldn’t show how. I’ve been making the point for years but with only the useless T Mobile, Schlecks and frightened Movistar as evidence I’ve been looking (more) like a raving mad loon.

Maybe he has some disease or something but i also wonder wether his hearts just not in it.

The change in form must be illness, surely. Surely.