Di2 Vs Etap

bmxboy10

I am sure this has been asked before but I have decided to upgrade the GS on my 2016 Tarmac. Cost wise the new Ultegra Di2 is the better value of the two but I can get the Etap and just keep my Praxis Chainset and would need to get a Force brake calliper set.

I think I know the relative pros and cons over battery life, shifting performance and the operational side of things. I like the look of Etap and the fact it can be fitted to any frame.

So in short what do you guys think about the two options, what would you get and why?

This is not a Mechanical vs electronic thread BTW

shirley_basso

I've never used it but it seems users of both prefer etap but I am totally happy with di2

Matthewfalle

Etap for all the reasons you have mentioned plus it's better than Ultegra which isn't as good as dura ace which in turn isn't as good as etap.

Why get a date with Stacey Dooley and end up taking Susan Boyle out?

joey54321

I'd say you would be happy with either, I don't know anyone who isn't. I really like my DI2, I thought it would be a gimmick but it's actually great, and I can imagine Etap is the same.

Buy whichever one gets your all fuzzy inside.

sloppyschleckonds

Which is the lightest?

Flâneur

which can you afford to replace should the worst happen, such as a broken rear mech or shifter

shirley_basso

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/produ ... ter-211408

Some food for thought.

StillGoing

Matthewfalle wrote:

Etap for all the reasons you have mentioned plus it's better than Ultegra which isn't as good as dura ace which in turn isn't as good as etap.

Why get a date with Stacey Dooley and end up taking Susan Boyle out?

Your opinion obviously and what you put out on every thread about groupsets. :roll:

For the OP, both are good and keep your hands clean when it comes to indexing. I went from mechanical SRAM to the new Ultegra Di2 and can't fault it. Yes it is heavier than mechanical, but the simplicity of set up and clean hands afterwards is an added bonus to the general features of electrical over mechanical. I went Di2 rather than eTap for the additional functions of Di2 and synchro shifting. You won't be disappointed by whichever you choose, but make it your choice rather than going by somebody's blinkered brand loyalty.

StillGoing

Shirley Basso wrote:

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/sram-etap-vs-di2-which-is-better-211408

Some food for thought.

Worth noting as well, that in independent tests, there is no difference in the performance between the new Dura Ace Di2 and the new Ultegra Di2. The only difference is in the materials used and weight.

fenix

Not gone electronic yet - but I favour Etap myself. Why have cables as well as a battery ? That's two links as opposed to just the battery from Etap.

shirley_basso

Cables aren't really an issue, no more so than mechanical wires.

My concern would be operating eTap front mech in a high intensity chaingang/race situation.

I'm sure I read that eTap shifting was quicker but now it appears to not be.

sungod

Shirley Basso wrote:

My concern would be operating eTap front mech in a high intensity chaingang/race situation.

why?

if set up right it works perfectly

use it with a flexy mech hanger and/or set it up wrong then there'd be same problems as with di2 - both apply large forces, both will move a flexy hanger, both need setting up right

noodleman

From personal experience I'd go etap every time. So far with di2 I've had faulty rear mech, faulty junction box 'a', faulty front shifter and crimped wires. Also a duff battery and now a rapidly discharging system.
At the moment it's looking like another faulty front mech or shifter. Etap on the other hand has never missed a beat. Just been unlucky maybe.

shirley_basso

sungod wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

My concern would be operating eTap front mech in a high intensity chaingang/race situation.

why?

if set up right it works perfectly

use it with a flexy mech hanger and/or set it up wrong then there'd be same problems as with di2 - both apply large forces, both will move a flexy hanger, both need setting up right

Sorry I meant just if bumping around at full speed on a less than perfect road surface, I can always get the Di2 to shift on command. Maybe I'm over thinking it but I can see myself messing up the FD change by not pressing both buttons correctly and at the same time.

sungod

ahh, i wondered about that when i first put etap on, but after 2+ years i never did it once

i suspect part of the delay people talk about may simply be a pause before action to determine if one or both buttons are pressed - it's an inevitable requirement with the 'left, or right, or both' decision logic sram chose

you can also deliberately delay pressing or releasing one of the buttons to cause both rd and fd to shift together (more or less), but it takes a bit of practice to get slick, i think simultaneous front+rear shift is easier to do with di2

JakeJ

sungod wrote:

ahh, i wondered about that when i first put etap on, but after 2+ years i never did it once

i suspect part of the delay people talk about may simply be a pause before action to determine if one or both buttons are pressed - it's an inevitable requirement with the 'left, or right, or both' decision logic sram chose

you can also deliberately delay pressing or releasing one of the buttons to cause both rd and fd to shift together (more or less), but it takes a bit of practice to get slick, i think simultaneous front+rear shift is easier to do with di2

This is my only question to every one I talk to about Etap.

If you're going from from a sharp downhill to a steep uphill you want to be able to bang it down in to the little ring, but match it by going down a couple of cogs on the rear too, so that you don't end up spinning at 180 cadence and not go anywhere.

So my question is always.. Is it quick enough to be able to do that? But you're saying that with a bit of practice you can get it to change both FD & RD at the same time?

My favourite thing about Etap is that it's wireless, my bike is a little too old to be able to put Di2 on it (without drilling holes in the frame/not gonna happen.) So if I wanted to go electric Sram is pretty much my only option...

Although I'm sure I read somewhere (probably on here) that FSA is bringing out a semi wireless*? electronic groupset?


*This can't be right surely? it's either got wires or it hasn't?

sungod

JakeJ wrote:

...If you're going from from a sharp downhill to a steep uphill you want to be able to bang it down in to the little ring, but match it by going down a couple of cogs on the rear too, so that you don't end up spinning at 180 cadence and not go anywhere.

So my question is always.. Is it quick enough to be able to do that? But you're saying that with a bit of practice you can get it to change both FD & RD at the same time?...

it's not simultaneous, but it's close enough...

the way i prefer to do it is press both to start the front shifting, then let go of left or right to trigger the rear shift

but you can also do it the other way round

like i say, i prefer the first way, the result feels closest to them really shifting together as a front shift takes longer to complete

furiousd

noodleman wrote:

From personal experience I'd go etap every time. So far with di2 I've had faulty rear mech, faulty junction box 'a', faulty front shifter and crimped wires. Also a duff battery and now a rapidly discharging system.
At the moment it's looking like another faulty front mech or shifter. Etap on the other hand has never missed a beat. Just been unlucky maybe.

I love my Di2 when it is working. I had 18 months of fault free riding, then on a century ride it decided to completely die at about 50 miles from home. Nothing, no lights, nothing. I called a bike shop that was local to my position and got it there. Plugged it in for a charge and nothing, computer wouldn't even register the system. Battery was in the seat tube took it out and it was wet, tried my battery on a bike in the shop nothing. New battery it worked, so £120 later i was on my way. However then have been more of the same problems. Put a new chain on the bike a couple of weeks ago and nothing again. Called my local shop and agreed i had checked everything and would take it into him the next day.

Popped into the garage that night and it was working again. Decided to take it to the shop anyway. Next morning was working, took it to the shop and it wasn't. At least they could see it not working. All firmware has been updated and there are no fault codes. All connections checked. Took it back home. Friday before the bank holiday, did 15 miles in the morning and 15 that night. (dont want to take it to far at the moment) Bank holiday Monday was nice though i would pop out. Got 1/2 mile from home and it died. By the time i got back it was working. It has been back to the shop again, still no faults. Changed the cable from the battery and going to try this weekend.

I am doing London to Paris this year but not confident in taking the bike, so will be taking my other mechanical setup. If it happens again then the whole bike is going to have to be sent off.

great when working, PITA when not...

shirley_basso

Disconnect and reconnect everything?

I've run my di2 so far for 1000 miles since December without fault except for one flat battery, which was my fault.

StillGoing

Sounds like a crimped cable somewhere causing a drop in power or your faulty battery has leaked corrosive fluid into the cable.

eTap or Di2, be it Ultegra or Dura Ace and I can't see anyone being disappointed.

Andymaxy

Di2
-only have to charge one battery
-hidden button on top is awesome
-cheaper in the case of ultegra
-awesome hoods(this is personal preference but there is no getting away with the fact that the new DA/UT hoods feel so good)

Etap
-initial setup is easier
-lighter
-cleaner routing

If any of the above reasons is important, go for it. Otherwise it's really personally preference.

joey54321

Another point, and it might be minor, is conservation of battery while travelling.

Doesn't SRAM detect movement and switch on the mechs, so while travelling with the bike the mechs are constantly searching for the shifters. This might potentially leave you short of battery for your ride.

DI2 suffers a similar issue, but only if you leave it with one of buttons depressed so it is constantly trying to shift the mech.

sungod

joey54321 wrote:

Another point, and it might be minor, is conservation of battery while travelling.

Doesn't SRAM detect movement and switch on the mechs, so while travelling with the bike the mechs are constantly searching for the shifters. This might potentially leave you short of battery for your ride.

DI2 suffers a similar issue, but only if you leave it with one of buttons depressed so it is constantly trying to shift the mech.

it's no different from when riding, everything is awake

but it's a non-issue, i easily get 1000km before the status shows charge is dropping on the rd battery (at that point there's still plenty of ride time left), it takes a few seconds to check batteries are ok - significant power is only used when shifting

my shifter batteries are over two years so far, still not gone to even the first low charge status

for travel with a bikebox you should always unclip the rd/fd batteries anyway, just in case a shifter gets activated in transit by something in the box pushing a paddle, plus airlines often require battery removal anyway, etap comes with travel covers to protect them, takes < 20 seconds for both

vinnymarsden

I am using the new 8050 Ultegra and its awesome..really is the dogs...I actually swapped from Tap to Mech DA then to the new 8050...There are pros/cons to all systems, but the ETap faster battery drain really got to me after a while...at my age you forget loads..and that was one of the things I constantly forgot!!
Trying to go 2 miles up an 8% hill with no changers kind of killed it for me!!!
If you can stay on top of it, its a great system, I did find the FD VERY VERY sensitive..almost impossible to set up...eventually got it right, but the Ultegra just does it straight from the get go..
Either system will be way way better than mechanical I assure you..just my two pen north...im quite prepared/ready to be totally shot down

StillGoing

Andymaxy wrote:

Di2
-only have to charge one battery
-hidden button on top is awesome
-cheaper in the case of ultegra
-awesome hoods(this is personal preference but there is no getting away with the fact that the new DA/UT hoods feel so good)

Etap
-initial setup is easier
-lighter
-cleaner routing

If any of the above reasons is important, go for it. Otherwise it's really personally preference.

Couldn't agree more. The simple function of being able to change gear with them or operate your Wahoo or Garmin by scrolling through the pages. I also like that you can set Di2 up to shift how you want even ala SRAM eTap with synchro shifting if that floats your boat.

bmxboy10

What is the hidden button on Di2?

lettingthedaysgoby

solboy10 wrote:

What is the hidden button on Di2?

On the top of the hoods

bmxboy10

Ok but what does it do?

lettingthedaysgoby

solboy10 wrote:

Ok but what does it do?

They're customisable. Can be used as additional shift buttons, but more useful is things like Wahoo or Garmin head unit control.

eg: https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en- ... EMNT-BOLT-

philbar72

DI2 is wonderfully reliable if used/installed correctly. I set my Di2 up so that it shifts fast and it works really well. I get occasional chain offs with the front mech, but they are rare. if I were to restart the exercise I'd probably go Etap, simply because of its ease of install having said that. both are reliable, if you look after them.

noodleman

philbar72 wrote:

DI2 is wonderfully reliable if used/installed correctly. I set my Di2 up so that it shifts fast and it works really well. I get occasional chain offs with the front mech, but they are rare. if I were to restart the exercise I'd probably go Etap, simply because of its ease of install having said that. both are reliable, if you look after them.

Di2 certainly isn't reliable in my experience. Guess every system has it's lemons though. Mine was installed meticulously and I never get chain offs. I'm sure I could remedy that. I've started trouble shooting my di2 now as 4 separate dealers can't seem to do it. Disconnected everything except front shifter and rear mech. Held charge for a few days so I was optimistic it was ok. Dead this morning.