Gearing, 1x11 or 2x11?

dempsey1

Looking to buy a road bike capable of going off road. Prefer cyclocross frame rather than gravel. My question is around the gearing. As I will mainly be using on the road would I be best to stick to a 50-34 with 11-32 dual set up or would a 42 single ring up front paired with a 12-42 rear cassette be able to keep up on the road and be fine off road?

cougie

You'd have bigger jumps on the 1*11 and lose your top ratio.

I don't really see the benefits of it ?

cycleclinic

I'd go with 1x11 and I have on one road bike. gearing is personal.

1:1 ratio on the road is only really needed on 25% gradients. So with 1x11 you could probably use a 46T ring. 42x12T is not very tall at all.

I use a 1x11 race bike. I ride it in hilly areas sometimes too. today in yorkshire up steep climbs. Its fine and i can just shift one paddle and get into the right gear later/quicker. I use a 52T ring and 11-32T, or a 12-27T or a 11-21T for TT's.

Double rings are fine but since I rarey use the inner ring and i fine with wide range cassettes it makes sense to loose the inner ring as it useless to me.

Andymaxy

1 by 12 or 13 or 22, 2 by 11

green_mark

50/34 x 11-32 has 16 non-duplicate gears. Six of the 22 gears are essentially the same between the 50T and 34T chainrings (eg 50x25 = 34x17 = 54 gear inches).

Of the 16 remaining gears, there are two top-end gears that you are unlikely to use. I’ve never spun out the 50x11. I only once in my lifetime spun out a gear as high as 50x12 – that was bombing down a Pyrenean road at 90kph that was closed to traffic. So unless you are sprinter or downhill dare-devil, a 2x11 has 14 usable gears, 15 if you use the 50x12.

I’m not aware of any 11sp cassettes that are 12-42, but 11-42 are quite common. 42x11 is the same top end gear as 50x13.

So you get 3 or 4 extra gear ratios with a 2x that you would not get with a 1x, but you also get the additional complexity and risk of dropped chains.

Note also it is really easy to swap cassettes – if you have 1x 11-42 then you can swap in 11-36 or 11-32 (or even smaller) without changing the chain. It’s worth keeping a few sets spare that you can swap in for different occasions.

amrushton

just been reading the Cyclefit website and the owners of the shop have both had new expensive bikes built using 1 x11. They can and do have the best of what's out there fitted and it's worth a read as to why they have opted for 1 x 11. Doesn't mean it may be right for you but they are using them having specific reasons in mind.

http://cyclefit.co.uk/journal/trek-emon ... ike-1-x-11

fenix

The logic seems to be largely - I was crap at the etape last year - so I'll build up a ten grand lightweight bike. (and maybe do some weights). I'm not convinced really.

964cup

I think it depends on your sensitivity to cadence. I have 1x11 on my cross bike (which I also use as an occasional winter bike and commuter). 46T front with 11-40 rear for general use, 40T with 11-40 for off-road. 46x11-40 is the same range as 50/34x12-29, but obviously there are some bigger jumps in there.

Depending on how strong you are, you don't *need* a massive cassette at the rear. 46 x 11-32 gives you a bottom gear that's the same as 39x27, which is perfectly reasonable for most climbing.

I found that switching to single speed for a lot of my riding made me much more comfortable with a wide range of cadences. When you don't have a choice about gearing, you find that your legs adapt. As long as you have a sensible cruising ratio (I use a 48x17, just under 75", for 32kph at 90 cadence), I find I don't mind sometimes doing 40 rpm and sometimes doing 140, although I wouldn't want to climb an alp on it.

My 1x crosser isn't perfect, because it's a bitsa - Ultegra di2 with a SRAM CX1 crank and an SLX M7000 (technically MTB) cassette. As a result, I don't have the 46x16 ratio I'd really like for a 90rpm cruise. I end up with a slightly higher cadence in 46x17 (because the cassette is 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-27-31-35-40). It shifts fine, though (I had to make up an extended B-screw to get the RD to clear the 40T cog, but it seems to cope well with that in place) and I can't say I hugely notice the extra 5 rpm.

davep1

Go for a 2 x 11. Just because it is right. Want a big change? Left hand. Want to fine tune your cadence? Right hand.

All this talk of saving weight and not duplicating ratios is just marketing bollocks to get people to pay more for less. If you aren't riding single speed, why compromise on something that might have enough gears when you can just have something that does have the right gears, and doesn't have big jumps between each one?

singleton

Personally I think a 1x looks nice on a road bike and I admire the mechanical simplicity of it.
But for real riding, I think I'll stick with my 2x for now.

Harry182

DaveP1 wrote:

Go for a 2 x 11. Just because it is right. Want a big change? Left hand. Want to fine tune your cadence? Right hand.

Essentially this ^^^ (and what others above have also said.)

I do like the simplicity of a 1X (and am building up a 1X commuter just because) but...

For long/fast/hard rides/when pushing my limits, I'm looking for/need all the help I can get. I'm unwilling to sacrifice being in the right gear. Close ratio cassette ftw.

fenix

Is it Aqua Blue riding 1x this year ? If they start to wipe the floor with their rivals I'll think about it - but there's probably even less reason for it in the pro peleton as they have a minimum weight limit.

kirkee

Harry182 wrote:

DaveP1 wrote:

Go for a 2 x 11. Just because it is right. Want a big change? Left hand. Want to fine tune your cadence? Right hand.

Essentially this ^^^ (and what others above have also said.)

I do like the simplicity of a 1X (and am building up a 1X commuter just because) but...

For long/fast/hard rides/when pushing my limits, I'm looking for/need all the help I can get. I'm unwilling to sacrifice being in the right gear. Close ratio cassette ftw.

Agree with these posts. I think 1x makes more sense for road than mtb due to a generally narrower spread of gears than what's required on an mtb. 1x does ultimately lack in usability. Its suitable for some bikes/,riding disciplines but most riders will be better off with a 2x.

janwal

1x is perfect for what you want. Don’t worry about cadence that many moan about it just isn’t an issue. Just push a bit harder or spin a bit more. I have no problem at all riding with mates on standard compacts either on my trek Domane disc which I converted to SRAM 1x with 42, 11-42 or my winter bike a Boardman cx team with 44 10-42.
In fact the Boardman CX team would be fine for you. At the moment Halfords have down to £900 and if you have Britsh cycling membership you can get another 10% off. It takes full mudguards with wide tyres.The Force hydraulic groupset alone is £750 ,it really is a cracking bike and the brakes are superb.
http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/c ... 5cm-frames
The frame sizes can be a bit confusing.i have the 50 but it has a 540 top tube.

dempsey1

Thanks fellas. Still undecided though. I have 1x set ups on my MTBs and 2x set up on roadbike. Guess I want the best of both worlds. If I can be convinced that I will be able to keep up on the road using a 1x11 set up think i will go with that. Then again.....

kajjal

Choose what is right for you and your riding. Not just 1x or 2x but the cassette range that works best for you.

My XC mountain bike is 2 x 10 giving a very wide range of gears as I tend to ride natural trails. My road / gravel bike is 2 x 11 to give a good range off / on road coping with steep longer uphills and giving good speed going downhill.

gary_sparrow

I’ve a Ix11 on the cross bike and it is lovely to ride
I use it on the road too as a second bike 40 -11/32 . Gearing is fine for most parts on the road and I still average 18 mph
However it’s sram apex 1 and the shifting is a curse to get right and as much as I like it I’m pissed off the SRAMs poor shifting . It’s on a caadx apex 1 .

3wheeler

dempsey1 wrote:

Thanks fellas. Still undecided though. I have 1x set ups on my MTBs and 2x set up on roadbike. Guess I want the best of both worlds. If I can be convinced that I will be able to keep up on the road using a 1x11 set up think i will go with that. Then again.....

Sounds like you'd be happy either way - both have pros and cons - so maybe that's not the biggest deciding factor for you on what bike to get and opens up your options more.

davep1

Fenix wrote:

Is it Aqua Blue riding 1x this year ? If they start to wipe the floor with their rivals I'll think about it - but there's probably even less reason for it in the pro peloton as they have a minimum weight limit.

Except pro riders have way more power than any of us so could ride around any problems a 1x set up might give them. Plus they have lackeys to change their gearing between stages and a truck full of parts to dig into!

I also don't think a 1x set up looks right, although this is more from the MTB side where you see some massive cassettes with really quite small chainrings.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

If you're not a steep climb fan (approx 8% or greater), then 1x on a road bike with a cassette without a crazy range isn't such a mad idea.

But for "average Joes" like me, who love the prospect of that final ~0.5 miles up Harvesting Lane cat4 or tackling the cat3 Mendip climbs that hit up to ~22% like Draycott Steep, 1x would be absolute lunacy IMO.

vegasfoster

There are no absolutes, it's just what works best for you. I went 1x8 12 years ago with 36t/11-30t. This was 2 years after purchasing triple crank setup where I never used the big or small rings and all the extra stuff just got in the way and one day was fed up and got rid of it. I still remember the feeling. Ahhhh. Anyway, I'm currently using 42t/11-34t on two bikes, because 42/11 is as fast as I want to go in traffic and 42/34 is all I need to get up the hills where I live. If I went faster or needed lower gearing, then I would go compact.

That said, I'm thinking it is much easier to go to 1x11 from 2x11 than to 2x11 from 1x11, so if I were unsure, I would definitely go 2x11.

kingstongraham

green_mark wrote:

50/34 x 11-32 has 16 non-duplicate gears. Six of the 22 gears are essentially the same between the 50T and 34T chainrings (eg 50x25 = 34x17 = 54 gear inches).

Of the 16 remaining gears, there are two top-end gears that you are unlikely to use. I’ve never spun out the 50x11. I only once in my lifetime spun out a gear as high as 50x12 – that was bombing down a Pyrenean road at 90kph that was closed to traffic. So unless you are sprinter or downhill dare-devil, a 2x11 has 14 usable gears, 15 if you use the 50x12.

This makes the assumption that the only time a gear is "usable" is when you can spin it out. If your preferred cadence is 85, then 50x12 is about 45kmh.

green_mark

So the answer is which one annoys you more:
- having to use the front derailleur
- having to change cadence

Ultimately that seems like a personal choice.

Moonbiker

Main benefit for 1x11 is no mud clogging the front mech whilst racing CX.

On road no real benefit apart from looking trendy, and saving a few grams.

No real disadvantage either though apart from maybe cost to change over too it.


So depends if you are fussy about close gear ratios & cadence.



I'd be happy with a 1x8 as gear jumps don't bother me.

davep1

KingstonGraham wrote:

green_mark wrote:

50/34 x 11-32 has 16 non-duplicate gears. Six of the 22 gears are essentially the same between the 50T and 34T chainrings (eg 50x25 = 34x17 = 54 gear inches).

Of the 16 remaining gears, there are two top-end gears that you are unlikely to use. I’ve never spun out the 50x11. I only once in my lifetime spun out a gear as high as 50x12 – that was bombing down a Pyrenean road at 90kph that was closed to traffic. So unless you are sprinter or downhill dare-devil, a 2x11 has 14 usable gears, 15 if you use the 50x12.

This makes the assumption that the only time a gear is "usable" is when you can spin it out. If your preferred cadence is 85, then 50x12 is about 45kmh.

Finally!!! I knew there was a simple explanation that a 50-12 was NOT enough. 45 km/h is not that fast, I'm no pro-wannabe and I definitely verge on a less efficient, lower cadence than most, but a 52-11 is a useable gear. Maybe not for more than 5% of most rides, but I want it there.

roger_merriman

DaveP1 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

green_mark wrote:

50/34 x 11-32 has 16 non-duplicate gears. Six of the 22 gears are essentially the same between the 50T and 34T chainrings (eg 50x25 = 34x17 = 54 gear inches).

Of the 16 remaining gears, there are two top-end gears that you are unlikely to use. I’ve never spun out the 50x11. I only once in my lifetime spun out a gear as high as 50x12 – that was bombing down a Pyrenean road at 90kph that was closed to traffic. So unless you are sprinter or downhill dare-devil, a 2x11 has 14 usable gears, 15 if you use the 50x12.

This makes the assumption that the only time a gear is "usable" is when you can spin it out. If your preferred cadence is 85, then 50x12 is about 45kmh.

Finally!!! I knew there was a simple explanation that a 50-12 was NOT enough. 45 km/h is not that fast, I'm no pro-wannabe and I definitely verge on a less efficient, lower cadence than most, but a 52-11 is a useable gear. Maybe not for more than 5% of most rides, but I want it there.

gearing is fairly personal, as mentioned up thread in terms of 1x vs 2x is mostly which annoys you more the front derailleur or gaps in the cassette, the want for big gears seems fairly common.

It is mostly preferences rather than technical, modern derailleur are much tighter ie have clutch or similar so chain slap/drop is fairly hard to do.

my fun bikes are 2x a trail MTB and a gravel bike, on both i'm much more concerned with the low than the high, since I like steep technical climbs, ie tend to like natural stuff which tends to vary more than man made.

rdt

Cycling is a big money business targeting a demographic many of whom often have pretty deep pockets.

One of the best ways of getting people to spend money is to engender in them a sense of dissatisfaction in the (perfectly good) stuff they already have, or simply encourage a sense of inquisitiveness about whether something newer and different might just perhaps be better than the (perfectly good) stuff they already have.

Fashion and social trends (the herd instinct + perceived social hierarchies) are the transmissions mechanisms for propagating the engendered dissatisfaction and inquisitiveness across the masses, often leaving no one eventually untouched by a powerful trend.

If 2x had never previously been popularised, the cycling industry would at present no doubt be attempting to get us all to buy into it, extolling the virtues of the additional gear ratios available, the ability to make a large ratio change in a single step, never needing to swap your cassette in/out dependent on terrain/event you're riding, doing away with any need for "ugly" giant dinner plate cassette, "something for both your hands to do!", and a load of other apparent must-have benefits.

And then onto 3x "triples" eventually, allowing you to never spin out descending mountains nor be defeated by the Alto de los Machucos - amazing flexibility.

Not knocking it (honest) - it makes the world go round afterall!