Current best smart trainers

cattytown

Hi Guys, I am looking at smart trainers (primarily to be used with sufferfest (Windows/MAC laptop with ant+ stick)) to make up for the fact due to childcare I can't get out as much as I'd like.

A Wattbike Atom is appealing as I don't have to mess about to use the bike on/off the trainer, but would something like a Tacx Neo be better in any way? what other options should I be looking at? How do the Tacx/Elite/cycleops units compare?

I'd rather avoid tyre to roller contact!

Thanks,
Paul.

lostboysaint

mrb123

cattytown wrote:

Hi Guys, I am looking at smart trainers (primarily to be used with sufferfest (Windows/MAC laptop with ant+ stick)) to make up for the fact due to childcare I can't get out as much as I'd like.

A Wattbike Atom is appealing as I don't have to mess about to use the bike on/off the trainer, but would something like a Tacx Neo be better in any way? what other options should I be looking at? How do the Tacx/Elite/cycleops units compare?

I'd rather avoid tyre to roller contact!

Thanks,
Paul.

I think the short answer to this is as follows:
Wattbike Atom - been loads of teething troubles with these. Have a search for the thread on here. Not sure if they've now been sorted or not.
Tacx Neo - pretty widely acknowledged as about the best smart trainer if money is no object. Plenty of other decent ones around too though (Kickr, Hammer etc)
Elite Direto - the best lower budget option around at the moment. Seem to be far less problems reported than with the Tacx Flux which is the other one at a similar price point.

cattytown

Very funny Lostboysaint.

MrB123 - thanks - just found that thread. Will have a read...

lostboysaint

cattytown wrote:

Very funny Lostboysaint.

MrB123 - thanks - just found that thread. Will have a read...

Sorry, I just couldn't resist!

mrb123

cattytown wrote:

Very funny Lostboysaint.

MrB123 - thanks - just found that thread. Will have a read...

I think there was a thread on the Road.cc forum too with very similar woes being reported.

dannbodge

Best budget - Tacx Vortex or Kickr Snap
Best budget Direct Drive - Elite Direto
Best direct drive - Tacx Neo or Kickr.

All have their advantages and disadvantages.

A few people I know have the Vortex and Snap and have no issues.
I've got a Neo and love it.

UpHillDownDale

I have the Wattbike Atom. The gear change lag issues that were originally reported appear to have been solved. The more I ride it the more I like it.

FatTed

+1 Tacx Neo, but i have not tried the alternatives.

the_rover

I’ve had an elite direto for a couple of months and I’m very pleased with it.
Elite run a Facebook support group for it and I’ve seen an increase in reports of belts snapping but like anything, for one poor experience there are dozens who haven’t had an issue.

It’s great when using fulgaz.

sh3p

After going through x2 tacx flux 1 after 3months use developed a ticking noise was replace without a problem with the LBS it was bought from, unfortunately this only made it home and set up, squeaked and squealed immediately. Was returned and refunded as i wasn't having a 3rd.
Now have the cycleops hammer can't compare it to the Neo or kickr as i havn't used 1 but am very happy with it so far

cougie

Check out the stack zero if you want no roller tyre interaction.

cattytown

cougie wrote:

Check out the stack zero if you want no roller tyre interaction.

Looks an interesting option - hopefully no need to mess about changing wheels, but doesn't do the smart bit yet from the looks of it.

ollaay

+1 Tacx Neo it is super quiet, was going to go with the wahoo kickr but couldn't stand the whining sound of the belt. I take it to races also to warm up as it doesn't need to be plugged in either.

shooter999

I’ve got a Wattbike Atom and I use it with TrainerRoad. It’s been faultless and really is an excellent bit of kit (albeit expensive).

There is a facbook group with lots of information.

cattytown

Shooter999 wrote:

I’ve got a Wattbike Atom and I use it with TrainerRoad. It’s been faultless and really is an excellent bit of kit (albeit expensive).

There is a facbook group with lots of information.

I must admit I am leaning to the Atom mainly because I don't have to swap wheels or mount the bike to a trainer - both can be ready to go

rdt

cattytown wrote:

Shooter999 wrote:

I’ve got a Wattbike Atom and I use it with TrainerRoad. It’s been faultless and really is an excellent bit of kit (albeit expensive).

There is a facbook group with lots of information.

I must admit I am leaning to the Atom mainly because I don't have to swap wheels or mount the bike to a trainer - both can be ready to go

The obvious solution to that is, space & wallet permitting, to have a bike permanently mounted to the trainer. I've done that for donkey's years. With a direct drive trainer the footprint is reduced somewhat. As to the additional cost of that, if you're considering an Atom then you already have a chunky budget.

Very few people own or regularly use a range of trainers, and so feedback from owners is normally of the type "I've got X and love it", interspersed with "although I did have Y and it was good until it broke". Plus, different criteria is important to different people, hence why there are a selection of decent high-end trainers from different manufacturers.

The best advice when buying anything that costs a lot is to have a long hard think about the boxes you need or want ticking and research until you're sick if it. Suck the very soul out of any notion of retail therapy

StillGoing

I've had my Direto for around 5 months now, coming from a Kura. The Kura as a fluid trainer, was very good, but hard work so you'd spend most time in the inner ring and whilst classed as a smart trainer, it didn't have ERG mode for auto resistance. The Direto is another world and for me has been faultless. It folds up to be able to tuck out of the way, but I have my winter bike permanently stuck on it. The one downer with Elite is the rubbish MyE Training app which is only any good for calibration.

gleaney

Hands down. Direto. Brilliant piece of kit. Especially in conjunction with TrainerRoad..

N0bodyOfTheGoat

My only other turbo is an Elite Mag over 10 years ago, but I've loved my Direto, since being able to use it from early January. With the rubbish extended winter we've had compared to normal on the south coast, Zwift and the Direto have been almost all my riding besides commutes until very recently.

I was reasonable happy to get mine for ~£640 from PBK just before Xmas, but at ~£480 with "FRIDAY-13" code from Athleteshop this weekend (all stock is 13% discount IIRC), it's a no-brainer if you are prepared to wait for delivery until early May.

cattytown

Cheers Nitrous - the Drivo would be a little quicker, and £732 delivered Vs £899 at Wiggle...

StillGoing

cattytown wrote:

Cheers Nitrous - the Drivo would be a little quicker, and £732 delivered Vs £899 at Wiggle...

The Drivo's only advantage over the Direto is the higher gradient representation and watts. If you can put out more than the 1400 watts of the Direto, good on you and need more than the 14% gradient representation, impressive. Otherwise, you're wasting money on features that you don't need.

cattytown

Again Thanks Philthy. Just demonstrating the accuracy of your sig :-)

FatTed

If you like riding virtual climbs of the dolomites or Alps then you will need more than 14%. To ride them all

mrb123

FatTed wrote:

If you like riding virtual climbs of the dolomites or Alps then you will need more than 14%. To ride them all

You can still ride them, it just means that the resistance stops increasing once you reach the maximum the turbo can simulate. Your speed will still decrease by the appropriate amount.

The 14% max for the Direto may not actually be available for all users depending on weight. Have a look at the earliest comments under the DC Rainmaker review.

My Direto doesnt seem to give any extra resistance past about 10 or 11%. I'm 78kg.

StillGoing

MrB123 wrote:

FatTed wrote:

If you like riding virtual climbs of the dolomites or Alps then you will need more than 14%. To ride them all

You can still ride them, it just means that the resistance stops increasing once you reach the maximum the turbo can simulate. Your speed will still decrease by the appropriate amount.

The 14% max for the Direto may not actually be available for all users depending on weight. Have a look at the earliest comments under the DC Rainmaker review.

My Direto doesnt seem to give any extra resistance past about 10 or 11%. I'm 78kg.

Intersting, I'll have a read of that as mine certainly does.

MiddleRinger

Have ridden a NEO and a KICKR2 and went with the NEO. Oh so quiet and just works. Never need to calibrate. Also has funky neon lights that change colour depending on wattage. Everyone loves neons.

The NEO is an awesome bit of kit, a lot of money for a turbo trainer though.

Get the latest KICKR if you don't mind the extra noise. Wattbike Atom looks amazing too!

singleton

I got a Elite Turbo Muin Smart mid Feb for £290 and I use it with Sufferfest - it's been great. There's no auto resistance capability, but that's fine for Sufferfest as you can just change gear to increase resistance and power.

You could buy one of these plus a bike to leave permanently setup for the price of a watt bike.

kingstongraham

I don't think any trainer is going to simulate somewhere like Fedaia, unless it has the resistance to make you run out of gears. If it just slows you down, then it is eventually pretending you have a 34x36 gear if you can still turn over 80rpm.

rdt

If you've time on your hands to spare, read on....!

After toying with getting an Atom, and considering waiting for the Tacx Smart Bike, head eventually ruled heart and I plumped for a Neo + 11-spd 105 "turbo mule" bike built solely for use on the trainer. I've had the Neo a month and the bike build was completed yesterday, so my new setup is complete and I'm pleased with it. Managed to do the lot for ~£1450 exc seat/pedals (£800 Neo - bargain, £650 mule build), so similar ballpark to an Atom and probably a fair bit cheaper than the Neo smart bike when it comes out.

There's a lot of very nice indoor bike kit out there now so loads of good options depending on exactly which cat you're trying to skin. The following was my thinking:

- Resistance unit design: my digging [such as this entire thread: http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/ind ... kr/&page=4 ] led me to conclude that the Neo's motor-brake design provides the current best inertia (kinetic energy) simulation of any smart trainer by avoiding the limitations inherent in the fixed-mass flywheel designs as used by all the current trainers using eddy-current brakes, eg. every other smart trainer out there AFAIK. Maybe my Electrical Engineering degree eventually proved useful although I doubt it. NB for erg mode, this inertia stuff is irrelevant, but as I plan to use my trainer setup for free-riding stuff it mattered (to me) as I wanted to pedal stroke to be as near as outdoor riding as possible - clearly many other people just won't be bothered by this level detail, which is fair enough. Horses for courses.

- Max Gradient: I like riding hills outdoors, and planned to ride them indoors, so wanted the maximum possible gradient simulation, so Neo scores top marks here.

- Trainer noise & flex: with big fans running, trainer noise wasn't so critical to me as it may be for some people, but given a choice quieter is better, and the Neo's the quietest out there (no internal belts and fewer moving parts). Also, a trainer that allows some bike movements is a bonus although not a must have, but becomes more more important the longer the time spent on the trainer. The Neo's flex is slight but useful (but nothing remotely like the movement of Kinetic's Rock n Roll designs). Many of the trainer rocker plates that people are lashing up look like garbage, just providing some useless "jiggling" motion, although 1 or 2 look promising and maybe worth keeping an eye for Zwift addicts or others doing long indoor sessions.

- Bike fit: using a mule bike means positioning can be dialled in exactly as the road bike; a smart bike may involve some compromises due to crank lengths and drivetrain widths differing from someone's normal setup; not a showstopper, but given the choice I'd prefer have an exact match.

- Longevity & Maintainability: an all-in-one trainer bike like the Atom or the forthcoming Tacx smart bike was/is very appealing to me (look great, "zero maintenance", etc), but beyond warranty periods I had some concerns over fixing any internal mechanical problems that may arise and over long term wear and tear. By using a turbo mule, any drivetrain stuff can be simply fixed by either me or the LBS. The Neo's resistance unit has fewer moving parts (no internal drive belt or chain) than nearly every other trainer, so less to wear out, and more chance of providing the years of usage I was hoping(!) for from this purchase.

- Resalability: selling a smart bike a few years down the line when no longer a current model might be tricky due to the physical size of the things - many years ago I owned a fancy indoor gym bike, and selling them on is not so easy! 2nd hand turbos are small enough (even the heavy ones) to be easily couriered to a purchaser so if a much better turbo comes along one day I'm only trying to shift the boxable part of my trainer setup not a 75kg trainer bike on a pallet!

- Usable by different people: this is where the smart bikes like the Atom are great, but I decided this was a very minor nice have rather than a must have for me (my partner wasn't realistically evert going to use it in the long term - not happening).

- Real gears vs. virtual gears: I decided that at the moment, for realism purposes, I'd be happier with real gears than virtual gears, ie. the instant physical feedback you feel in the drivetrain and the lever from a mechanical gear change. I'm very interested to see what Tacx do with the Neo bike, and whoever else brings out a smart bike in the next couple of years. Quite possible this aspect will be nailed by them and will go from being a slight negative for all-in-one smart bikes to a positive.

Those are the reasons why I chose what I did: Neo + mule bike best ticked my boxes, plus I had the budget to get what I wanted. Obviously, what best ticks other people's boxes may be quite different:

The Atom looks decent and there seems to be many happy customers; like most new products it'll probably benefit from refinements if there's a v2, v3 one day. Of the non-Neo top-end smart trainers, perhaps the Cycleops Hammer is the best although pricey. At a modest step down from the flagship trainers the Direto seems good value with few compromises made for the lower price. Horses for courses, innit.

I still wouldn't rule out me buying a fancy all-in-one smart bike in the future one day when the market's figured out what works and what doesn't, but for the next several years (at least) I'll be watching developments from the sidelines...

mrb123

Great post Rdt.

£650 for your turbo mule. You definitely haven't done things by half!