Hope Mono RS rear bearing failure

drlodge

Wonder if others have experienced anything similar with their rear Hope Hubs (Mono RS here, Campag version). Eventually got around to look at this after about 10 months, I experienced a rear hub seizure about 50m from the top of Mont Ventoux last June..not the most convenient of places. Managed to free it enough so I could ride down, but had to keep pedalling which, through the steep Forest section, was no mean feat!! Brakes applied all the way to keep speed under 30-35mph.

Found the inner Freehub 61803 bearing had totally disintegrated, bits of bearings all over the place. No damage I can see to the hub itself and the freehub pawls seem fine too. But noticed that my freehub is not the same as on their exploded diagram, email from HopeTech today confirmed the diagram is for the Shimano version which has 5 bearings, Campag version only 4...Shimano version has an additional bearing midway in the freehub (10mm and 15mm spacers with a 61803 midway and beefier 17287 on the outside) so I'm thinking the Campag version is somewhat weaker and more prone to failure. Just two 61803s at either end of the freehub on mine.

Not sure on mileage on these hubs buts its not a lot, around 2,500 I guess. Have ordered replacement stainless steel bearings from Aire Velo and RRP Bearing press tool & kits 13/13a at nearly £100.

ugo.santalucia

Hope and Campagnolo... a long story of little niggles.. I remember when they did accept 10 speed cassettes but not 11. My guess is that Hope developed everything starting from the MTBike version, which is Shimano by definition and Campagnolo was always a last minute conversion for the road hubs.
Always a good idea to check the freehub periodically... that said, you probably wrecked the bearing with your heroic efforts up Mt Ventoux... :-)

drlodge

It was probably that last ditch sprint to the finish, putting out 1200 watts or so

The Campag version does seem to be a compromise compared to the Shimano version with only 4 rather than 5 bearings.

Given its the inside freehub bearing that's gone, this clearly absorbs a lot of torque/load so will keep a careful eye on it in future. Using a 32 on the rear up those long climbs with all that torque finished it off. I had felt the bearings were a bit notchy, but that was the drive side wheel bearing I found out.

I've now ordered a complete set of replacement bearings in stainless steel, 4 rear and 2 front, cost £50. Then looked for a suitable bearing extractor/driver tool. Bought the RRP tool and 2 fittings for the 2 different bearings, thick end of £100. Hopefully the Miche hubs from Malcolm on the WM use the same 17287 & 6803 bearings.

keef66

drlodge wrote:

Hopefully the Miche hubs from Malcolm on the WM use the same 17287 & 6803 bearings.

Funnily enough I was pondering exactly that yesterday and the blurb on Malcolm's website says 2 x 6001 main bearings front and rear, and 2 x 6901 for the freehub.

drlodge

keef66 wrote:

drlodge wrote:

Hopefully the Miche hubs from Malcolm on the WM use the same 17287 & 6803 bearings.

Funnily enough I was pondering exactly that yesterday and the blurb on Malcolm's website says 2 x 6001 main bearings front and rear, and 2 x 6901 for the freehub.

Different then!

My Hope bearings are:
61803: 17 x 26 x 5
17287: 17 x 28 x7

Miche are:
6001: 12 x 28 x 8
6901: 12 x 24 x 6

svetty

drlodge wrote:

My Hope bearings are:
61803: 17 x 26 x 5
17287: 17 x 28 x7

Miche are:
6001: 12 x 28 x 8
6901: 12 x 24 x 6

Depending on the thickness of the races it suggests that the balls are likely to be larger in the Miche 6001 than the Hope 61803 which failed....

keef66

The outer dimensions suggest that both of the Miche bearings are meatier than their Hope counterparts

drlodge

keef66 wrote:

The outer dimensions suggest that both of the Miche bearings are meatier than their Hope counterparts

Indeed, but the Miche has a smaller diameter axle.

keef66

After years of Shimano wheels and faffing with cone spanners I'm still keen on acquiring a pair of the Borgs with Miche hubs. Being a lighter rider I'm happy to sacrifice axle thickness for more robust bearings. The only thing that concerns me is the 2mm allen head screw on the preload adjuster; doesn't it fill with salty water on the first cold day of the year and start to corrode? I don't think I've ever used my 2mm allen key TBH

The only bent axle I've ever encountered was on my son's MTB. Cheap, cheerful and heavy. Him and the bike.... Bunny hopping kerbs while laden with newspapers probably did for it. When I say bent I mean snapped in half. Which skewed the rear wheel and ripped off the mech as it dragged it into the spokes.

On the plus side, it kick-started my new hobby of cycle repair and mainenance....

Vino'sGhost

if you dont maintain your kit it will fail.

drlodge

What kind of maintenance is expected on an inner freehub bearing?

g00se

It's sounds catastrophic - was there any evidence that the bearing was on the way out?

I've had to replace Hope Campag freehub bearings before (the freehub that wouldn't take 11-speed that Ugo referred to) but I've also replaced two freehub bearing sets on the same Campag Record hub. The clue for me is when the cassette has a little bit of lateral wobble when cleaning it. For the Record ones, I think it's been down to water-ingress but the Hope ones were just wear.

drlodge

It was catastrophic, no real warning before hand. I had noticed the bearings were a bit notchy but that was one of the main hub bearings, not the freehub. I've taken the bearings out and indeed one main bearing is notchy.

The only warning I got was half way up Mont Ventoux, from Malaucene, I heard a screeching from the rear wheel so I stopped, inspected and couldn't fathom what was going on so decided to carry on. I now reckon it was part of the bearing having come away that was getting squished somewhere. Climbing in 34-32 is putting as much strain on that bearing as is possible. Then about 50m from the top, the rear wheel suddenly seized completely. I walked to the top, put bike upside down and manage to free the wheel, but the freehub would not rotate. I then had two options - try to descend while continuously pedalling (otherwise the chain would rip the RD off and gawd knows what else) or call for help and wait.

Good hint about watching for wobble play in the cassette, I'll be a lot more diligent from now on and at least the freehub is easy to pull off and inspect. Hopefully the new bearings, which are stainless steel, will last a bit longer.

Vino'sGhost

drlodge wrote:

What kind of maintenance is expected on an inner freehub bearing?

just inspect from time to time when you either hear or feel something amiss.

"no real warning before hand. I had noticed the bearings were a bit notchy" Prior to your big ride you could have inspected, stick your finger in and check bearings play or notchiness = replace bearings. a simple job

And when you check the bearings for play or notchiness, you might as well clean the crap from the pawls in the freehub.

keef66

Vino'sGhost wrote:

if you dont maintain your kit it will fail.

And what kind of maintenance would prevent a cheap solid steel axle from breaking??

With sealed cartridge bearings there is no maintenance, you just run them till they develop play, roughness, signs of corrosion or occasionally fail completely, and then replace them. All you can do is maintain correct preload, and periodically check that they are visually OK and turning smoothly. For the ones buried inside the freehub a visual check would involve stripping down the hub.

That's what I do annually with my cheapish factory Shimano wheels, to make sure there's no corrosion, clean and regrease, occasionally new ball bearings, drizzle of oil into the freehub internals, and then quite a while faffing with cone spanners to get the cones adjusted properly. And once corrosion has started it suggests a seal is no longer effective, and soon the cup is pitted to the point the hub and hence the wheel is toast.

That for me is the attraction of cartridge bearings; when they wear out or start to corrode, just whack them out and pop in shiny new ones.

Vino'sGhost

keef66 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

if you dont maintain your kit it will fail.

And what kind of maintenance would prevent a cheap solid steel axle from breaking??

The issue was the bearings not the axle.

Solid steel axles eh? you muppet

keef66

Vino'sGhost wrote:

keef66 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

if you dont maintain your kit it will fail.

And what kind of maintenance would prevent a cheap solid steel axle from breaking??

The issue was the bearings not the axle.

Solid steel axles eh? you muppet

I was referring to my son's cheap MTB. 20 years ago that's what you got when you bought a FS bike for £200 from Halfords.

drlodge

keef66 wrote:

With sealed cartridge bearings there is no maintenance, you just run them till they develop play, roughness, signs of corrosion or occasionally fail completely, and then replace them. All you can do is maintain correct preload, and periodically check that they are visually OK and turning smoothly. For the ones buried inside the freehub a visual check would involve stripping down the hub.

Exactly. I serviced this bike before the trip, thoroughly. I inspected the hub/freehub and could see nothing wrong with the freehub or bearings. The failure was catastrophic, no warning, so no amount of further maintenance, other than replacing the bearings for no good reason, would have prevented this failure.

Vino'sGhost

drlodge wrote:

keef66 wrote:

With sealed cartridge bearings there is no maintenance, you just run them till they develop play, roughness, signs of corrosion or occasionally fail completely, and then replace them. All you can do is maintain correct preload, and periodically check that they are visually OK and turning smoothly. For the ones buried inside the freehub a visual check would involve stripping down the hub.

Exactly. I serviced this bike before the trip, thoroughly. I inspected the hub/freehub and could see nothing wrong with the freehub or bearings. The failure was catastrophic, no warning, so no amount of further maintenance, other than replacing the bearings for no good reason, would have prevented this failure.

But you reported notchiness in the hub. replacing worn bearings is not replacing for no good reason, its a common sense repair to your bike before travelling long distances and having your ride ruined. Clearly, if as you say, you inspected the hub and freehub and found no fault in the bearings you should ask a LBS to do your servicing.

drlodge

Vino'sGhost wrote:

But you reported notchiness in the hub. replacing worn bearings is not replacing for no good reason, its a common sense repair to your bike before travelling long distances and having your ride ruined. Clearly, if as you say, you inspected the hub and freehub and found no fault in the bearings you should ask a LBS to do your servicing.

You're being very selective in what you recite...the notchy bearing was not a freehub bearing and is therefore irrelevant. It was not the notchy bearing that failed.

Vino'sGhost

drlodge wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

But you reported notchiness in the hub. replacing worn bearings is not replacing for no good reason, its a common sense repair to your bike before travelling long distances and having your ride ruined. Clearly, if as you say, you inspected the hub and freehub and found no fault in the bearings you should ask a LBS to do your servicing.

You're being very selective in what you recite...the notchy bearing was not a freehub bearing and is therefore irrelevant. It was not the notchy bearing that failed.

You said you inspected the freehub and the hub.

drlodge

On further inspection, the axle has a groove in it where the edge of the freehub or bearing was rubbing, so have ordered a new axle as well. Whilst the groove isn't particularly deep, its just off the centre of the axle so will take quite a strain and I don't want it snapping mid ride!

It certainly pays to watch these bearings closely and replace at the first sign of imperfection.