Thoughts on cramp please...

slopesoarer

I never used to suffer with cramp in my 20-40's but have had a quite long period away from cycling, I tried to get back in to cycling again a few years ago but cramp and a dodgy back at the time killed my motivation.

5 rides since Monday last week and am currently feeling quite enthusiastic but at the back of my mind is the worry about cramp and to be honest it is lurking especially in my left leg.

My routine at present is to have a good pasta meal the night before riding. Get up about 6:30 and have a bowl of porridge, about 3/4 pint fresh orange and a couple of glasses of water before going out around 8:45.

I'm sticking to rides of around 14 miles at present, living in Bolton means that most of my rides I climb around 1000 feet. As I'm getting older (58) I find that I have to spin more and more.

I think spinning tends to help with me not getting cramp but I get a fluttering feeling quite often, which I take as a warning sign and try and do some stretches on the bike.

As the weather is still a bit unpredictable I wear cycling tights and wonder whether or not the compression effect of them is beneficial with regard to cramp?

Although I don't have vicarious veins (well not visible) I wonder whether or not the fluttering is related?

Any thoughts would be welcome.

Cheers

Simon

surfercyclist

I do sometimes get cramp in my calf despite being well hydrated, eating right etc. I do find wearing tights does help and when the weather gets warmer I carry a pair of compression socks with me so if I get struck by cramp can put them on to aid cycle home. Yes I could wear at all times but it is not something I find I need to do as the cramp is fairly infrequent but I carry the socks as a precaution.

singleton

Mate of mine used to get quite a lot of cramp, but since he started having a protein bar after his rides, the cramp has gone away.
Maybe it's related to the protein, maybe it's something else in the bar - but it definitely works for him.

cougie

Don't think there's any link to diet with cramp.

You could easily do those 14 miles without breakfast and 3/4 a pint of orange is a lot of sugar to take on.

milemuncher1

Make sure you stay hydrated, and maintain your electrolyte levels ( with isotonic drinks ). Upping your Magnesium intake, may help reduce cramps too. Bananas are a good source of magnesium, so drinking an isotonic drink, and eating a banana may do the trick.

imposter2.0

Cramp is generally the result of asking your muscles to do too much. Links to fluid intake, electrolyte levels, minerals and other such nonsense are simply not proven.

Meanwhile, lower your effort levels until your fitness improves.

webboo

Milemuncher1 wrote:

Make sure you stay hydrated, and maintain your electrolyte levels ( with isotonic drinks ). Upping your Magnesium intake, may help reduce cramps too. Bananas are a good source of magnesium, so drinking an isotonic drink, and eating a banana may do the trick.

He’s doing 14 miles round Bolton, so he hardly going to be depleting his electrolyte levels. If he was he needs an appointment with his GP rather than asking on here.

sungod

i'd think you just need to build fitness/get used to cycling, some work on flexibility might also help (not pre-ride stretches, but a proper program of exercise away from the bike)

electrolyte depletion cramps are a whole body issue, if it's only the legs then fatigue/lack of training are the main suspects

slopesoarer

Imposter wrote:

Cramp is generally the result of asking your muscles to do too much. Links to fluid intake, electrolyte levels, minerals and other such nonsense are simply not proven.

Meanwhile, lower your effort levels until your fitness improves.

I think the point you make is a big factor when I think about it.

I do have to keep reminding myself that I'm getting older and to accept that it may take longer to build a level of cycling fitness again. I do have a habit of trying to cycle like I did 25 years ago or more, I remember certain landmarks which signalled a change in riding style (if that makes sense) for me and still want to have a go... unfortunately my body doesn't cope as well as it used to.

Consciously I am now spinning more than I used to and am aiming for a cadence of around 85rpm.

So far I have avoided cramps this time round (though I know they are never really to far away) and hope to keep it that way: )

Thanks for all the comments.

Simon

navrig2

Balanced diet, stay hydrated, stretching and build strength/fitness.

If cramps start or you feel them starting then chalky indigestion tablets. 19p per packet from Asda.

May be an urban myth but I found it worked for me and at such a cheap price and no real impact on my stomach/gut easy to do.

keef66

I drove myself nuts trying to stop calf cramps by drinking / electrolytes / feeding / stretching, but in the end concluded it happened when I was asking too much of my muscles, often pushing too hard at the end of a ride when I was knackered and really should've been warming down.

It disappeared completely once my fitness and endurance reached a certain level. At 60 the challenge now is maintaining it...

awavey

I wouldnt have thought it would be cramp based on diet/hydration based on that distance necessarily, so I would say try some stretching pre and post ride routines (plenty of youtube examples) which might help alleviate it, as you say you have had back trouble and your leg muscles are going to be linked with that, as you maybe trying to pedal in a way to protect your back that is extending your left leg muscles more, which is why they are counter reacting,either by cramp or tightening up into a knot that feels like cramp.

also try not to think or worry about it happening too much, I know when I got stuck with very painful cramp on a long ride, the very next few rides I did, the same leg Id cramped was already twitching it felt within metres of me setting off and I was convinced it was cramping up again, till I relaxed and realised I was just tensing up too much about it

slopesoarer

I did forget to mention that I do some stretching/warm up exercises before going out and I think that does help however I don't do anything after a ride... worth thinking about!

#awavey, I think you make a valid point about worrying about it and it has crossed my mind am I bringing it on myself!?

The chalk/indigestion tablets is worth having a go at, I normally have some in anyway.

Thanks again: )

First.Aspect

I'm 44 and I feel physically exactly the same as I did when I was 25.

For about 3 minutes. Then I feel like an old elastic band.

I thought cramp might have something to do with sodium/potassium balance. From which I can categorically say bananas.

But in seriousness, I had a long injury lay off a few years ago and when I got back into things, I found odd parts of me were the first to fail. Lower back, whatever the little muscle on the outside of the calf is, then the inside of the back of the knee, etc. I reckon (technical term) that if you persist and build up slowly, eventually the bits of you that aren't quite up to it will catch up.

You know what, if I'm up to tackling hills around Bolton in 14 years, I'll be happy.

webboo

slopesoarer wrote:

I did forget to mention that I do some stretching/warm up exercises before going out and I think that does help however I don't do anything after a ride... worth thinking about!

#awavey, I think you make a valid point about worrying about it and it has crossed my mind am I bringing it on myself!?

The chalk/indigestion tablets is worth having a go at, I normally have some in anyway.

Thanks again: )

Stretching before exercise is probably the worse thing you can do. I thought this was common knowledge these days.

cycleclinic

My thoughts on cramp rare I simply don't like it.

slopesoarer

Webboo wrote:

slopesoarer wrote:

I did forget to mention that I do some stretching/warm up exercises before going out and I think that does help however I don't do anything after a ride... worth thinking about!

#awavey, I think you make a valid point about worrying about it and it has crossed my mind am I bringing it on myself!?

The chalk/indigestion tablets is worth having a go at, I normally have some in anyway.

Thanks again: )

Stretching before exercise is probably the worse thing you can do. I thought this was common knowledge these days.

No, I've not heard that before. I'd have thought that for any exercise it would be good to warm up/stretch?

webboo

Warm up then dynamic stretches however there is lots of conflicting study’s in regard to stretching in whether its of any use.
I used to stretch before running( this was many years ago when everyone did it) I would often get a cramp like sensation in my calf and have walk home. It would be ok later. Physio reckoned the stretching gave the message to the muscle that hard work was on the way and it shut down to avoid it.

robert88

My experiences of cramp are thankfully rare but I find it tends to happen if I have not cycled for a longish while and lack fitness. Other occasions are when I have put some real effort into hill-climbing and then stop suddenly. So i never stop immediately I reach a summit but do a bit of easy pedalling for a while.

Frank Wilson

I have no thoughts about cramp.

Matthewfalle

I think it's not very nice.

Matthewfalle

I think therefore I cramp.

slopesoarer

Well since my original post I have been riding 3 times a week. I can tell that my legs are getting that bit stronger and having taken on board what people said about asking the muscles to do too much too early being a likely problem I can confirm that it no longer appears to be an issue with me: )

My ride lengths are increasing gradually now up to around 25 miles per ride (not very long I know) and I am trying to keep my cadence around 90-95 rpm but actually averaging consistently around 85 rpm. I do think the spinning has also helped.

I just now need to start working on getting out of the saddle more on the shorter inclines. It does annoy me when I spin up a hill which I would have sprinted up 20 years ago: ( However I am also learning that acceptance that I'm getting older is slowing down my return to fitness and that I'll never be able to do quite what I could do in my 30's!

I'm thinking of joining Lancashire Road Club and doing some of the Old Lag rides: )

Mpercy

When I started cycling (being somewhat overweight at the time) and experiencing cramping, a (rather fitter) colleague at the time mentioned that it was related to fitness. I subscribe to that, and personally believe that it is due to taxing your muscles in ways that they have not been trained to at that point - longer time or distance etc. So my general approach is to ride longer, or faster as the goal dictates.

I've also found some success (which maybe at odds with above, I agree) that taking magnesium on the onset of the 'twitching' or prior seems to help. I use the PowerBar Magnesium Ampoules to some success and it *seems* to help me. A physio a couple of years ago told me to place pressure above the area of the cramp to disrupt the nerve signals in case of cramp, and that seemed to work for me too at that point.

The science? Well it doesn't seem that there is an agreed view on the root cause of cramps, so it largely falls into the 'whatever works for you' camp at this stage until those smarter than me can work it out.

Matt

Cotterend

Magnesium tablet once a week: works wonders!

skratchlabs

Sounds like it would be worth assessing your sweat/electrolyte loss...
"The water in our plasma or blood isn’t just water – it’s more of a salty soup, containing about 9 grams of sodium chloride per liter (3.5 grams from sodium and 5.5 grams from chloride) – an amount that is similar to the sodium concentration in chicken noodle soup which comes in at 3 to 4 grams of sodium per liter. Since the water in our bodies or more specifically in our plasma is so salty, the fluid that enters any one of the two million sweat glands across our skin is also salty. In fact, while a number of electrolytes like potassium, calcium, and magnesium are also lost in sweat, sodium chloride makes up the overwhelming majority of the electrolyte loss in sweat. For this reason, electrolyte loss in sweat is really synonymous with salt loss. More importantly, it’s the loss or dilution of sodium, not chloride, that negatively affects our physiology – a phenomenon called hyponatremia that can result in a host of problems that range the gamut from fatigue, confusion, headache, nausea, muscle cramps, seizures, and in rare cases death. Because of these potential issues, getting a handle on the concentration of sodium in sweat (i.e., “sweat sodium”) and replacing that sodium in addition to water, instead of water alone, when dehydrated from heavy sweating is paramount to performance and survival."
Simplified: if you arent replacing lost salt & electrolytes you are probably going to cramp.
Simple solution before going down the rabbit hole would be to try a hydration product that is hypotonic while riding.
If you want to talk, ask questions and discuss more shoot me an email info@skratchlabs.com or 303-396-0133

webboo

skratchlabs wrote:

Sounds like it would be worth assessing your sweat/electrolyte loss...
"The water in our plasma or blood isn’t just water – it’s more of a salty soup, containing about 9 grams of sodium chloride per liter (3.5 grams from sodium and 5.5 grams from chloride) – an amount that is similar to the sodium concentration in chicken noodle soup which comes in at 3 to 4 grams of sodium per liter. Since the water in our bodies or more specifically in our plasma is so salty, the fluid that enters any one of the two million sweat glands across our skin is also salty. In fact, while a number of electrolytes like potassium, calcium, and magnesium are also lost in sweat, sodium chloride makes up the overwhelming majority of the electrolyte loss in sweat. For this reason, electrolyte loss in sweat is really synonymous with salt loss. More importantly, it’s the loss or dilution of sodium, not chloride, that negatively affects our physiology – a phenomenon called hyponatremia that can result in a host of problems that range the gamut from fatigue, confusion, headache, nausea, muscle cramps, seizures, and in rare cases death. Because of these potential issues, getting a handle on the concentration of sodium in sweat (i.e., “sweat sodium”) and replacing that sodium in addition to water, instead of water alone, when dehydrated from heavy sweating is paramount to performance and survival."
Simplified: if you arent replacing lost salt & electrolytes you are probably going to cramp.
Simple solution before going down the rabbit hole would be to try a hydration product that is hypotonic while riding.
If you want to talk, ask questions and discuss more shoot me an email info@skratchlabs.com or 303-396-0133

I guess you would be recommending your own products.
If you bothered to ride the original post, he’s riding 14 miles so he’s hardly likely to be salt depleted.

ZMC888

I think cramp is caused by many factors, potasssium/sodium/magnesium balance, hydration, temperature and even psychological.

For example I've had calf and toe cramp in the swimming pool during a 3km 1 hour swim, where my muscles are doing almost nothing during front crawl, probably caused by electrolite imbalance warm body temperature and colder water. Other times but rarely on the bike in temperatures over 30c (not in the UK) probably an electrolite issue with dehyration.

Believing you've found 'the answer' from having electrolite drinks, magnesium tablets etc is probably important as the belief you 'won't get cramp' is most likely the important thing as the psychological factor seems important. My thoughts are that cramp is 0-50% psychological, and that depends entirely on individual circumstances.