Full suss travel advice

jamski

Hi all.

I'm in the market for a full suss, as I've posted about a few times over the past 6 months. In a position to buy now, but given the fact that I haven't ridden for 6 months and now having physio on a bad back, I'm reluctant to spend the £2,300+ on the Bird Aeris I had always planned on.

Looking at around the £1800 mark, I'm more comfortable with that. Most the bikes I'd consider spec wise are more around the 120mm region. My old bike (Boardman Pro FS) was 140 front and 130 rear. I absolutely loved how it rode and the confidence it gave me.

So my question, am I going to notice the slightly less travel, the Bird would have been 145/160, but I was more than happy with the Boardman. 99% of riding will be Swinley and the Surrey Hills, but it needs to be able to cope with at least BPW too.

Is 120mm enough for a 'do it all' bike?

Thanks in advance.

JBA

2017 Giant Trance 2 - around £1,700 from the usual suspects.

Jam29

Depends on what your riding at BPW. 120mm will be perfect at Swinley. I don't know about Surrey Hills. When it comes to BPW you'll be fine on the blue trails and most of the reds I would say. You will start to be under gunned though on the harder reds where the drops start to become bigger such as Bonnyville and Hotstepper as well as the Blacks like Dai Hard. If 120mm works for 99% of your riding that sounds like the way to go. You can always hire a 150mm bike for the 1%.

cooldad

120mm is plenty for SH as well.

mark_fogel

For BPW I would suggest a slightly longer travel bike say +140mm, for the rest of your riding 120mm will be enough. I also had a Boardman FS for 3 years which I loved, then upgraded to 150mm Lapierre Zesty last year and the extra 20mm rear travel allows me to plough through almost everything. I can descend much faster than I ever could on the Boardman however it kind of makes smooth trails a little boring. I find myself riding my hard tail at Swingley because it makes it a little more fun. It all depends on what is more important to you, a bike which is focused towards descending ie enduro like the Aeris or more balanced shorter/mid travel bike. Don't forget to consider the geometry as it plays a big part too.

If the 140/130mm worked for you why not look for something similar? there are plenty of options available - Giant, Canyon, Vitus, Commencal.

jamski

Hummm, all good food for thought. I'd like a good test ride, which is why Bird has always appealed. I'm local to them, lifetime frame warranty, there's a lot to be said for all of those. Marin appeals too, I can test them and the Hawk Hill or B17 get good reviews.

I am perhaps getting my priorities wrong, buying a bike for the the 1% at BPW and the 1% that may never happen. Where I should be looking at the 98% of what I actually do. The Aeris 120 may be a better option, and a tad cheaper so I'll spec one of those up.

How have you found the longer travel at climbing compared to the Boardman? Thanks all.

cooldad

The Aeris 120 is pretty much as much as anyone needs for 99% of (non Rampage type extreme gnar) riding. Very competent, and would probably be my choice if I was buying.

Except maybe for their new 29er - I like 29ers.

A 120 29er (which is what I ride now) is perfect for me, mainly SH with some trail centres thrown in.

Did me fine around Innerleithen and Glentress recently.

mark_fogel

The 120 Aeris does look good and bike geometry will help with gnarlier stuff too. It will certainly feel a bit more lively under your feet too.

My Boardman was a really bad at climbing when I first bought it. It was the team model with a really basic rear shock which had no lockout. It just bobbed loads and climbing was a massive pain. I eventually upgraded it and climbing improved. Compare to my zesty, I would say the zesty climbs about the same... May be a little slower due beefier wheels and tyres.

jamski wrote:

Hummm, all good food for thought. I'd like a good test ride, which is why Bird has always appealed. I'm local to them, lifetime frame warranty, there's a lot to be said for all of those. Marin appeals too, I can test them and the Hawk Hill or B17 get good reviews.

I am perhaps getting my priorities wrong, buying a bike for the the 1% at BPW and the 1% that may never happen. Where I should be looking at the 98% of what I actually do. The Aeris 120 may be a better option, and a tad cheaper so I'll spec one of those up.

How have you found the longer travel at climbing compared to the Boardman? Thanks all.

poah

cooldad wrote:

Did me fine around Innerleithen and Glentress recently.

Christ, they'll let anyone ride our trails :P

O/T did you ride any of the off piste stuff?

cooldad

No we were just there for a few days. Did chat with a local though who told us about stuff. Next time.

The run down Innerleithen was pure fun.

phz

https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/flare

tallpaul_s

If you're still looking for something with 140mm travel and about £1800 then the Vitus Escarpe VR has a excellent spec for the money - with the british cycling discount it comes in at £1670 (+£23 for the BC membership).

An option if you wanted to stay under budget but still get 140mm rear/150mm front travel.

jamski

TallPaul_S wrote:

If you're still looking for something with 140mm travel and about £1800 then the Vitus Escarpe VR has a excellent spec for the money - with the british cycling discount it comes in at £1670 (+£23 for the BC membership).

An option if you wanted to stay under budget but still get 140mm rear/150mm front travel.

Hummm, that's a cracking spec for the price. I already have a BC membership, the only thing is CRC don't offer any sort of test ride. Wiggle offer 30 days to return, even if the bike is used, but I can't get 10% off with them! Grrrrrrr.

joebristol

If the Bird is too expensive to justify then some of the direct supply brands have their trail / enduro bikes starting around £1800. Think the Jeffsy / Capra / Swoop / Strive all start around that level and often with a pike or lyric etc.

I’ve got the Aeris 145 with a 160mm Yari and now upgraded to the 160mm lt linkage for the rear. I ride that for everything - from Ashton Court and Leigh Woods in Bristol (a lot of the trails are very flat unless you go cheeky), an occasional trip to swinley, Cwmcarn , occasional FOD and hen the more downhill type places like BPW and Windhill Bike Park. It does all of them brilliantly. So far I don’t think the increase in 145 to 160mm travel at the rear has made the bike climb any worse.

I had a Boardman Pro Fs before this bike and it is quite different. I have a few PRs on strava on the Boardman that I can’t beat on the aeris - these are on flat / twisty / pedally sections - but everywhere else I’ve blown them away on the Aeris. Uphill and downhill anywhere that gets even slightly technical.

It’s fun round Swinley although you are overbiked there - but I don’t see an issue myself. I’d rather be overbiked than underbiked - it’s hilarious what you can get away with.

joebristol

Just looked and I take my comment back about yt / canyon / Radom - all their base level bikes have gone up in cost quite a bit since I was looking at the start of last year. The spec also seems to have gone down.

Makes that vitus look very appealing.

tallpaul_s

jamski wrote:

TallPaul_S wrote:

If you're still looking for something with 140mm travel and about £1800 then the Vitus Escarpe VR has a excellent spec for the money - with the british cycling discount it comes in at £1670 (+£23 for the BC membership).

An option if you wanted to stay under budget but still get 140mm rear/150mm front travel.

Hummm, that's a cracking spec for the price. I already have a BC membership, the only thing is CRC don't offer any sort of test ride. Wiggle offer 30 days to return, even if the bike is used, but I can't get 10% off with them! Grrrrrrr.

If it's any help, the 29er VRX version of the escarpe has just won MBR 29er trail bike of the year.

Any review I've seen of them has been good, the ONLY thing I'd say that lets it down a little is the weight - it'll be 32lbs or so, maybe a little less if you ditched the DD casing rear tyre which is 1lb heavier than the standard casing, and went tubeless. But you have to remember it's a £1700 FS bike!!

There are test rides events that Vitus go to, I've not managed to get to any though, but if you're willing to wait a couple of weeks I will be ordering mine in a weeks time. In fact they're at Cannock chase in 2 weeks time - http://bikelive.road.cc/content/bike-live-demo-day-cannock

As for geometry, which largely affects how the bike rides - in the same test was the (also test winning) canyon spectral, I rode this in the CF8.0 version at the weekend and it's simply brilliant. It's 2lbs lighter, but the geometry compared to the Vitus is staggeringly similar...

In XL size, Escarpe | Spectral:

Head Angle 66 | 66 Seat Angle 74.5 | 74.5 Reach 495mm | 482mm Chainstay 435mm | 430mm BB drop 20mm | 22mm Wheelbase 1234mm | 1235mm

Not saying they'll ride the same as they're different bikes with different suspension set ups etc - but if the geometry is anything to go by they should be fairly similar - the Escarpe is slightly longer.

Oh and I will also be riding at Swinley/Surrey hills with some bedgebury thrown in when I want some mostly flat pedally trails Also a few local trails around me, I'm just on the edge of the North downs in Kent so plenty of climbing and there's meant to be some decent singletrack abut 30 mins ride away. I personally think 150/140mm travel f/r is perfect for general trail riding, these bikes climb brilliantly, there's literally no need to put the shocks into pedal mode unless you're stomping on the pedals.

jamski

Thanks all. As great as the Vitus looks, my heart is still set on a Bird. As crazy as it sounds I’m willing to compromise on bits to get down to the £2k mark. I can get an XT 120 for a smidge over that and will have to add a dropper afterwards if need be. Will be getting a good demo in on one in the next couple of weeks hopefully.

tallpaul_s

jamski wrote:

Thanks all. As great as the Vitus looks, my heart is still set on a Bird. As crazy as it sounds I’m willing to compromise on bits to get down to the £2k mark. I can get an XT 120 for a smidge over that and will have to add a dropper afterwards if need be. Will be getting a good demo in on one in the next couple of weeks hopefully.

TBH If I don't get the Escarpe it would be something around the £2-2.5k mark - at the moment though I can't justify spending that much as I'm coming back to MTB's after a 15 year gap! My original plan was for a hardtail at around £1200 but after riding a couple of HT's for 2 hour rides, and then a couple of FS bikes - as I'm not hugely fit at the moment and creeping ever closer to 40, a FS bike really is the way to go - I'd end up being broken and bruised on a HT, I just need the comfort of a FS bike.

The plan is to get the Vitus, ride that for the summer/autumn, then pick up a proper sorted FS bike in the autumn/winter sales, the Canyon Spectral is on the list along with the Cube stereo, both carbon bikes, sub-30lbs. Then I'll sell the Vitus frame/shock and transfer the parts onto a steel hardtail over winter

The Bird is a lovely bike, the frames are gorgeous - saw them at the London bike show. The aeris AM9 in it's naked alloy finish is particularly nice 8)

cooldad

I had a go on the prototype AM9 last year. Unfortunately I ride flats and it had SPD pedals, but it fitted me perfectly and although I couldn't try anything gnarly, felt good.

Friends have had pretty much every model from original HT up to latest FS, and none have had any complaints. I've tried them all, but the 120 is the one I would get for my style of riding. I love twisty singletrack, and fairly technical stuff. Not a heroic jumper type - I'm both old and a bit of a chicken. Falling off really hurts these days, and takes longer to heal.

Something to bear in mind - the Bird has a transferable warranty, and is still a fairly small company, so you can talk to the owners, and they are very serious about what they are doing. They will look after any buyer, and go the extra mile.

Bit of a disclaimer, two of the three owners are personal friends, and I ride regularly with one (the other moved north), so you can read whatever you want into my opinions. But I have been involved from the idea stage, right through the buying and trying loads of bikes to see what works and what doesn't to the launch and onward. I have a lot of respect for what they've done so far.

Bastards don't give me a kickback for my sales pitch though. So don't let me influence you....

joebristol

I’ve just had a play with the 120 builder - for £2030 you could get an NX 11 speed build with upgraded brakes and rotors. Comes in quite a bit cheaper than an XT build - should you want a bigger range cassette than 42-11 you could look at getting sunrace or Shimano as NX is a Shimano freehub. Sram Guide r brakes with 200/180 rotors will stop you nicely and reliably - that’s what I went for on my 145.

I’d have liked the Guide RE but it wasn’t an option then, but is now. That or the RS - but that was our If stock at the time.

https://www.bird.bike/product/aeris-120 ... figuration

jamski

Thanks CD. Yeah, the fact they're half an hour from me, and all the frame warranty, is a big part of my decision.

Joe, I've spent hours on there, speccing every possible combo, it's quite addictive! Got a 120 SLX build on there for £2065.50 which looks like a good option. I have a set of Guide Rs at home, so if the Deores it comes with (203/180 rotors) aren't up to scratch I can swap them out.

joebristol

Ah, you must be speccing it with the rt rather than rt3 shock to get that price on SLX. He only real difference is the rt3 has an extra bearing rather than bushing shock mount plus it has anowdal platform setting as well as full open / firm.

I went rt3 and I do use the pedal platform setting on the flat trails around Bristol. The bike is definitely faster in that setting than full open on that kind of trail.

I’d imagine Deore should be ok with 203/180 discs on a 120 wih the kind of terrain you generally ride on. I just don’t like the feel of Shimano brakes much and had a bad experience with some older Deore discs (m535) where they squealed a lot and didn’t have much power. You almost had to get heat into them at the start of every ride to get any reasonable stopping.

I also like Sram gearing - the lbs mechanic said I must like ‘angry shifts’ as that’s what he thinks Sram are and that Shimano is much smoother. We were talking road bikes at the time though - my new road bike came with Shimano 105 and the shifting feels very vague compared to the Sram Rival I had before it.

jamski

I might spec the RT3, it's only another £45, but we'll see. I've had both Sram and Shimanno and not really had issue with either. Hills are, and always will be my nemesis, so the extra range on the SLX appeals!

joebristol

Will it have an 11-46 cassette then rather than the NX 11-42?

When I bought last year they had GX 11 speed as an option which was perfectly priced for me - whereas new GX Eagle is a chunk more expensive.

I’ve got the 10-42 cassette with a 30t chainring and that works pretty well for me. Just low enough for the likes of climbing Cafell at Cwmcarn, but I’ve never run out of top end off road. In fact if I had a 28t chainring I don’t think I’d run out top end either.

jamski

Joebristol wrote:

Will it have an 11-46 cassette then rather than the NX 11-42?

When I bought last year they had GX 11 speed as an option which was perfectly priced for me - whereas new GX Eagle is a chunk more expensive.

I’ve got the 10-42 cassette with a 30t chainring and that works pretty well for me. Just low enough for the likes of climbing Cafell at Cwmcarn, but I’ve never run out of top end off road. In fact if I had a 28t chainring I don’t think I’d run out top end either.

Yeah it's an 11-46 with a 32t chainring. I had GX 11 speed on my last bike, not sure they do it any more to be honest. It's either NX 11 speed or GX 12 speed, which is out of my price range so the SLX seemed like a good middle ground. If they had a 30t as an option I might go with the NX, but I don't think they do??

joebristol

30t wasn’t listed as an option but I rang Bird and asked if they could put a 30t on instead of a 32t. There was a small extra charge but they did it no problem. The demo bike I rode had GX 11 speed with a 30t chainring whichhnwas why I wanted the 30t. Gives that bit extra low range on long steep climbs.

jamski

Cool, good to know. I'll have a test ride, decide on the 120 or 145 then talk to them.

joebristol

Test ride away - I did mine at Swinley. I spent the first 5 mins wondering why the bike was reluctant to turn into corners then tried pushing my weight further forward and it suddenly clicked for me. Now I find I really attack trails a lot quicker than on my last bike.

I didn’t ever test a 120 but everyone who has one seems to like it. I went for the suggested ML size which is great although I find it harder to manual than o Her bikes I’ve had - I wonder if the M would have been easier (I’ve got short arms). That said, it probably wouldn’t be as stable downhill and the front wouldn’t be so glued down going uphill.

jamski

Got both booked in for next Friday! Can't wait!

How tall are you to ride the ML?

Is it next Friday yet? #itsalongweek

joebristol

I’m 5’9 with a 32” inside leg. So reasonable length legs for my height but with a short upper body and arms!

I’d be curious to have a go on the M just to see how different it feels.

Jealous of your bike testing - I’d like a go on a 120 and an AM9 but would need to keep my wallet in my pocket.

Also tempted by something like a zero TR.