Anyone converted to Campag and why?

nicknick

***this is not a Shimano vs Campag slag-off thread!!!
I recently built up a new n+1 bike with Campy. Long time Shimano user and I wanted it to be different to all my others, and I love it.

I find the hood ergonomics superior to Shimano, so comfy. I fitted potenza by the way. To the point where my brief rides on Ultegra feel horrible. I’m not talking about shifting performance etc (both are great, just different), just the feel of the hoods.

I’m about to pull the trigger on another group for my best bike! But don’t know if the feel of the hoods alone justifies it, Ive Not idea about realistic reliability of campy. Anyone been in the same pickle? 8)

Matthewfalle

nicknick wrote:

***this is not a Shimano vs Campag slag-off thread!!!
I recently built up a new n+1 bike with Campy. Long time Shimano user and I wanted it to be different to all my others, and I love it.

I find the hood ergonomics superior to Shimano, so comfy. I fitted potenza by the way. To the point where my brief rides on Ultegra feel horrible. I’m not talking about shifting performance etc (both are great, just different), just the feel of the hoods.

I’m about to pull the trigger on another group for my best bike! But don’t know if the feel of the hoods alone justifies it, Ive Not idea about realistic reliability of campy. Anyone been in the same pickle? 8)

Go Campagnolo for the new bike - why go backwards?

Nicer hood shape, nicer design, nicer shifting action.

nicknick

Ah I didn’t word it very well. Campag IS on the new bike, but what I’m considering is campag on the existing ‘best’ bike-which means removing perfectly good ultegra!

I’d go Chrous, but it doesn’t have the nicer EPS style thumb button. So it’ll have to be potenza w/chorus chainset

StillGoing

So in what way did you think it wouldn't be a Shimano v Campag thread? It is all a matter of subjective tastes. Personally, I can't stand Campag, the hood shape and feel in particular. Thumb levers, seriously? Not so good for small hands from the drops. Additional tools to work on your bike too when Shimano and SRAM use more or less the same tools.

I've recently changed my main bike from SRAM Force 22 to the latest Shimano Ultegra Di2 and I can't fault it. Changes perfectly, even with Q rings. But, that's my subjective opinion.

bondurant

If you can sell your Ultegra for a decent price and you want something different, go for it.

I would probably go for Chorus though. Otherwise you won't have ultra shift, which is one of the nice things about the higher end Campag groups.

Reliability won't be noticeably different, Chorus is a solid group, just like Ultegra.

nicknick

philthy3 wrote:

So in what way did you think it wouldn't be a Shimano v Campag thread? It is all a matter of subjective tastes. Personally, I can't stand Campag, the hood shape and feel in particular. Thumb levers, seriously? Not so good for small hands from the drops.

Because I’m not saying ‘tell me which group is best’ I think you’ve missed the point.

Bondurant wrote:

I would probably go for Chorus though. Otherwise you won't have ultra shift, which is one of the nice things about the higher end Campag groups

I know what you mean. It’s the new dropped/lower thumb button that’s nicer in the other groups though, I wish they’d put it on chorus and it would be more appealing.(I never liked the horizontal button) I wouldn’t miss the ultra shift I suppose, as I’ve never had it!

flasher

I have both Campag and Shimano, and after 5 minutes of riding forget what group I'm using, as both are good and work well.

However if I had to spec a new bike it'd be Campag, if only because they have a much smaller market share and I always prefer the under-dog!

shortfall

Flasher wrote:

I have both Campag and Shimano, and after 5 minutes of riding forget what group I'm using, as both are good and work well.

However if I had to spec a new bike it'd be Campag, if only because they have a much smaller market share and I always prefer the under-dog!

I feel much the same. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Shimano and I don't knock it, but it's a bit like Next clothing. It's affordable, wears well, it's widely available and most of it looks quite smart. The problem is that when you go out in it every other person is wearing the same shirt as you and you don't feel special in it. My personal experience is that Campag is very robust but you pay for it. You also have to be prepared to either shell out for some proprietary tools or take it to the LBS for certain jobs like bottom bracket servicing.

nicknick

You don’t necessarily need any different tools unless you’re using the old power torque. Potenza power torque is now self extracting and if you use ultra torque you just need a long 14mm Allen key.

Threaded BB cups are the same as shimano. Pressfit require a special tool ideally, but that’s not just a campy thing.

Campy chains are a different matter so using KMC chain or just a quick link takes care of that one.

mercia_man

I've used both Campag and Shimano since I started serious cycling as an adult in the mid-1980s. Both are good but obviously different in feel. I get on fine switching from one bike to another. I don't subscribe to the silly "I hate Campag/Shimano" camps. I think much of this may be down to a long-time Campag/Shimano user trying the different system and having trouble getting it to work properly.

In my experience over the years, Campag stuff lasts longer but is more expensive to replace - cassettes, for example. For reliability, both have been good. I had a Campag Ergolever break and sent it away to be repaired cheaply and quickly by Mercian Cycles. I had a Shimano STI lever break and had to replace it. So, on balance, Campag is better if you want to keep your groupset for a long time rather than "upgrading" every couple of years.

I'm not sure what people mean about proprietary tools for Campag. I have a Campag cassette lockring tool which also removes Campag square taper bottom brackets and also works on my Shimano and SRAM cassette lockrings and Shimano threaded freewheels. I have a long 14mm Allen key for Campag Ultra-Torque bottom brackets and a standard Park bottom bracket cup removing tool. I find Campag chains last longer than KMC. I have used a KMC quicklink to fit them although I now also have a Campag 11-speed chain tool from Lezyne (£25) for peening Campag joining links. That's it for special tools.

So if the OP prefers the feel of Campag, fancies a change for the best bike and is willing to buy a new groupset, there's no reason why not. And having the same make groupset on both bikes does make sense.

nicknick

Mercia Man wrote:

So if the OP prefers the feel of Campag, fancies a change for the best bike and is willing to buy a new groupset, there's no reason why not. And having the same make groupset on both bikes does make sense.

Thanks for the reply. But your last bit poses another problem-that’ll be 2 Bike’s on campag and there’s a third one left on shimano Joking aside, the Ultegra can all the removed with cables still attached to mechs, brakes, shifters etc thanks to external cable routing. So easy to switch between groups. It’d be a £650 gamble, worst case is I loses bit of money.

shortfall

I'm not sure what people mean about proprietary tools for Campag.

11 speed Campag chains require a special tool that peens the rivet and the official one costs around £140 from memory. Ultratorque bottom brackets need a special puller to remove the bearings and a tube type drift to knock them back in. The original (hideous) Powertorque cranks needed a few specific tools to remove the cranks. In all cases there are work arounds using cheaper tools and methods but in the case of Shimano my experience is that the official tools are cheap enough that you don't have to go hunting for alternatives. It's not something that has put me off Campagnolo but it's worth considering for someone considering the switch from Shimano.

cycleclinic

on the flip side Campagnolo BB's tend to out last shimano hollow tech BB's. Use a KMC chain over a Campag chain.

use a miche casssette over a campag cassette. Really easy solution to some of the spares prices.

davep1

My previous bike had Campag Veloce which worked fine. I didn't mind the thumb buttons, they worked ok and I could just about work them from the drops.
I had one incident when the left hand crank arm fell off when I was almost home, and a few little bits popped all over the road. It wasn't Campag's fault, the assembly of the bike and me not checking it properly. But it did take me a couple of weeks to source the bits and get back on the road again, which if it had been Shimano would maybe have been a couple of days and half the price.

DeVlaeminck

Shortfall wrote:

I'm not sure what people mean about proprietary tools for Campag.

11 speed Campag chains require a special tool that peens the rivet and the official one costs around £140 from memory. Ultratorque bottom brackets need a special puller to remove the bearings and a tube type drift to knock them back in. The original (hideous) Powertorque cranks needed a few specific tools to remove the cranks. In all cases there are work arounds using cheaper tools and methods but in the case of Shimano my experience is that the official tools are cheap enough that you don't have to go hunting for alternatives. It's not something that has put me off Campagnolo but it's worth considering for someone considering the switch from Shimano.

Just because there is a campag £140 chain tool doesn't mean you need it, you don't, there are alternatives on the market and in any case you don't need to use a campag chain. I don't know about the BB tools I just asked a mate who had them but knowing him I doubt they were excessively expensive.

Matthewfalle

DaveP1 wrote:

My previous bike had Campag Veloce which worked fine. I didn't mind the thumb buttons, they worked ok and I could just about work them from the drops.
I had one incident when the left hand crank arm fell off when I was almost home, and a few little bits popped all over the road. It wasn't Campag's fault, the assembly of the bike and me not checking it properly. But it did take me a couple of weeks to source the bits and get back on the road again, which if it had been Shimano would maybe have been a couple of days and half the price.

Nah - Shimano would have caused you to chuck it all away or butcher other parts. Campag rocks for small spare parts.

Matthewfalle

I got a Record 10 speed chain for £20 from Merlin and fitted it the normal way if that helps with the discussion at all.

shortfall

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

I'm not sure what people mean about proprietary tools for Campag.

11 speed Campag chains require a special tool that peens the rivet and the official one costs around £140 from memory. Ultratorque bottom brackets need a special puller to remove the bearings and a tube type drift to knock them back in. The original (hideous) Powertorque cranks needed a few specific tools to remove the cranks. In all cases there are work arounds using cheaper tools and methods but in the case of Shimano my experience is that the official tools are cheap enough that you don't have to go hunting for alternatives. It's not something that has put me off Campagnolo but it's worth considering for someone considering the switch from Shimano.

Just because there is a campag £140 chain tool doesn't mean you need it, you don't, there are alternatives on the market and in any case you don't need to use a campag chain. I don't know about the BB tools I just asked a mate who had them but knowing him I doubt they were excessively expensive.

That's why I said in my post that cheaper alternatives were available.

thegreatdivide

Shortfall wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

I'm not sure what people mean about proprietary tools for Campag.

11 speed Campag chains require a special tool that peens the rivet and the official one costs around £140 from memory. Ultratorque bottom brackets need a special puller to remove the bearings and a tube type drift to knock them back in. The original (hideous) Powertorque cranks needed a few specific tools to remove the cranks. In all cases there are work arounds using cheaper tools and methods but in the case of Shimano my experience is that the official tools are cheap enough that you don't have to go hunting for alternatives. It's not something that has put me off Campagnolo but it's worth considering for someone considering the switch from Shimano.

Just because there is a campag £140 chain tool doesn't mean you need it, you don't, there are alternatives on the market and in any case you don't need to use a campag chain. I don't know about the BB tools I just asked a mate who had them but knowing him I doubt they were excessively expensive.

That's why I said in my post that cheaper alternatives were available.

The Lezyne tool costs 10 quid.

shortfall

Ok, proprietary was the wrong word. You need some Campagnolo specific tools and the own brand ones are eye wateringly expensive. Cheaper alternatives are available. Just factor in the cost when you switch if you plan on doing your own servicing.

thegreatdivide

philthy3 wrote:

Personally, I can't stand Campag, the hood shape and feel in particular. Thumb levers, seriously? Not so good for small hands from the drops. Additional tools to work on your bike too when Shimano and SRAM use more or less the same tools.

Good to see you've gone for your usual stock answers. Original responses really aren't your strong point.

The small hands argument is tired old nonsense. Get the right bars and position the levers correctly - job done - and as pointed out further up you don't need specialised tools anymore.

To the OP...

You really need to try out Chorus and above. While you might think that the EPS style button is nice, the reason the higher end groups are different is because, apart from Ultra Shift (which is great) the shifters carry out more tasks.

The Campagnolo 'gear dump' - if you press both buttons down the front mech drops while the rear mech simultaneously moves down a few gears, eliminating any cadence loss. Perfect for climbing.
The Campagnolo 'gear lift' - if you swing both levers inwards, the front mech lifts to the big ring and the rear mech shifts up. Perfect for cresting a climb before heading downhill again.

Also, the front mech shifter arm on Potenza and bellow, requires much more lever swing to lift it onto the the big ring, but with the upper end shifters it's three short clicks. It's always been quick for Chorus and above but the newer version is even quicker/slicker.

Potenza is a great groupset nonetheless, but once you try Chorus you'll really see the difference.

Right now I've got Veloce, two Athena groupsets, Record, Super Record, the latest Chorus and then Record EPS. I like Camapagnolo ;-)

I've also got small hands.

thegreatdivide

Shortfall wrote:

Ok, proprietary was the wrong word. You need some Campagnolo specific tools and the own brand ones are eye wateringly expensive. Cheaper alternatives are available. Just factor in the cost when you switch if you plan on doing your own servicing.

You don't need fancy tools. If your'e buying second hand Power Torque then fine, but Campagnolo don't make that version anymore and the OP is buying new. So tools are not an issue.

shortfall

On the tools front, can anyone recommend a reasonably priced puller that'll remove Ultratorque bearings?

pinno

Shortfall wrote:

On the tools front, can anyone recommend a reasonably priced puller that'll remove Ultratorque bearings?

Done that. Got the T shirt. Used an angle grinder.

shortfall

Pinno wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

On the tools front, can anyone recommend a reasonably priced puller that'll remove Ultratorque bearings?

Done that. Got the T shirt. Used an angle grinder.

??? I've seen videos of people using a Dremel to make the jaws of a standard puller thin enough to fit underneath the bearing, is this what you mean?

thegreatdivide

Shortfall wrote:

On the tools front, can anyone recommend a reasonably priced puller that'll remove Ultratorque bearings?

Loads on eBay. Ice Toolz also do a cheap one that does the job just fine https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Ice-Toolz-Pro- ... 117907.htm

mercia_man

Same puller but cheaper from SJS:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/iceto ... ller-tool/

pinno

Back OT:

Chorus gives the balance between longevity and price/weight.
I'm a tart - I have a mix of 11 speed SR on my summer bike and and R10 on my winter bike which has the older, more 'direct' Ultra Record levers.
You can still pick a lot of NOS Campag 10 on fleabay. thecycleclinic's comments about using Miche and KMC to save on those consumables is spot on. I use a Chorus cassette on my Summer bike and KMC 11 speed chains, though I will replace it with a Wipperman connex quick link because of a failed re-useable KMC link and the ease to which you can remove the Wipperman link. However, I have noticed no difference in the £35+ 11 spd Campag chain and the KMC in terms of gear change.
I have an Ambrosio cassette - Shimano splines, Campag spacing because i got a pair of Dura Ace cl35's for silly money and i love them to bits. They're a bit OTT for a winter bike but they were a little bit tired when I got them. Still going though.

(Being a convert to Campag some 27 years ago, of course I am going to wax lyrical about Campag.)

pinno

Shortfall wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

On the tools front, can anyone recommend a reasonably priced puller that'll remove Ultratorque bearings?

Done that. Got the T shirt. Used an angle grinder.

??? I've seen videos of people using a Dremel to make the jaws of a standard puller thin enough to fit underneath the bearing, is this what you mean?

No, to remove the old one's, I used an angle grinder and carefully cut through the top and bottom race with the cs in a vice.
I didn't need to go all the way through the inner race to release it.
To put the new one on, I used a metal tube of the right diameter which sat on the inner race, some grease and a hammer.

Matthewfalle

Pinno wrote:

Back OT:

Chorus gives the balance between longevity and price/weight.
I'm a tart - I have a mix of 11 speed SR on my summer bike and and R10 on my winter bike which has the older, more 'direct' Ultra Record levers.
You can still pick a lot of NOS Campag 10 on fleabay. thecycleclinic's comments about using Miche and KMC to save on those consumables is spot on. I use a Chorus cassette on my Summer bike and KMC 11 speed chains, though I will replace it with a Wipperman connex quick link because of a failed re-useable KMC link and the ease to which you can remove the Wipperman link. However, I have noticed no difference in the £35+ 11 spd Campag chain and the KMC in terms of gear change.
I have an Ambrosio cassette - Shimano splines, Campag spacing because i got a pair of Dura Ace cl35's for silly money and i love them to bits. They're a bit OTT for a winter bike but they were a little bit tired when I got them. Still going though.

(Being a convert to Campag some 27 years ago, of course I am going to wax lyrical about Campag.)

27 years? I presume you treated yourself to your first Campagnolo part with your first pension cheque then?

nicknick

For simplicity (and the only reason I tried campag anyway) was because all 11 speed spacing is 99% compatible, I’ve been using the wheels between my shimano bike and campag Bike which has an ultegra cassette on. The shifting, with a KMC, chain is perfect.

I do have fairly small hands-I’m 5tt7 at best, and with the correct placement on the right bars the thumb shifter is not a problem. I don’t doubt chorus feels better but surely the smaller thumb button is more difficult to reach???