Headset Woes

StewedHarry

I've been refurbishing my 2005 Trek SLR 1500 (this model: https://goo.gl/images/6LCjJi ). I'm having trouble with the headset. I took everything out, cleaned and greased it, put it back together. If I tighten the top enough so that there is no play in the stem the handlebars feel really stiff; if I loosen it enough so that they're not stiff, there is too much play.

I've ordered a new complete headset in order to try and fix it. However, Trek told me to get this one: https://www.jejamescycles.com/cane-cree ... s2372.html

I'm slightly confused because none of the components I removed from the bike look like this headset. Is the top of this headset (where the cane creek logo is) where the spacers sit? If so, it doesn't look like my bike currently has this type of headset. Also when I removed the headset, there was only one bearing at the bottom, is this normal?

I would appreciate any advice on the headset, and if it could be the right one for the job. Also any advice on how to fix the headset problem of being either too loose or too tight with no in-between.

Thanks!

Matthewfalle

Is the current one sealed bearings or bearings in a cage?

If the latter, have you put the cages in the right sides/right way round?

StewedHarry

Matthewfalle wrote:

Is the current one sealed bearings or bearings in a cage?

If the latter, have you put the cages in the right sides/right way round?

It was just a sealed bearing. I bought the bike second hand so I don't know what's been done to it. It looks like the headset they told me to get has bearings in cages

Matthewfalle

Did it work before you took it apart? Have you enough (roughly 5mm) gap between the headset cover and the top of the fork steerer? Are you taking up the play in the headset before doing up the stem bolts?

StewedHarry

Matthewfalle wrote:

Did it work before you took it apart? Have you enough (roughly 5mm) gap between the headset cover and the top of the fork steerer? Are you taking up the play in the headset before doing up the stem bolts?

I had the same problem before I took it apart. There is a gap between the headset cover and the fork. And i'm tightening the headset before the stem bolts so it's not that. Should there be any play at all in the fork? I just managed to tighten it so that the steering isn't too stiff and the play isn't too bad. There is still a small amount of play when I hold the front break, although now I can just feel it, rather than see it.

How much grease should be going going on the fork steerer? I just put a light coating on, maybe that's not enough and it's causing friction.

I guess I'm going to have to see when the headset comes, but from the picture it doesn't look like the one that's currently on there.

Matthewfalle

The gap may not be enough - try popping on a thin spacer and see what happens.

Are the bearings seated nicely on the crown race?

Is the crown race seated all nicely?

Amount or type of grease you have used doen’t Make any difference at all so no need to worry about that. Just slap it in.

Should be no play at all but bars flick side to side with just a finegr’s worth of effort

Can you post piccies of current set up so we can see?

StewedHarry

Matthewfalle wrote:

The gap may not be enough - try popping on a thin spacer and see what happens.

Are the bearings seated nicely on the crown race?

Is the crown race seated all nicely?

Amount or type of grease you have used doen’t Make any difference at all so no need to worry about that. Just slap it in.

Should be no play at all but bars flick side to side with just a finegr’s worth of effort

Can you post piccies of current set up so we can see?

What pictures do you need? I'm going to take it apart tomorrow.

I just took it out for a ride and it felt extremely weird. I bike doesn't want to go straight, it's like there's a messed up centrifugal force moving the bike side to side. The handle bars are still pretty stiff too.

What do you mean the bars should flick side to side with a fingers effort? The handle bars? there is still some play and the bars aren't a 'fingers worth of effort' loose. Could the headset/fork prevent the bike from riding true?

Matthewfalle

StewedHarry wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

The gap may not be enough - try popping on a thin spacer and see what happens.

Are the bearings seated nicely on the crown race?

Is the crown race seated all nicely?

Amount or type of grease you have used doen’t Make any difference at all so no need to worry about that. Just slap it in.

Should be no play at all but bars flick side to side with just a finegr’s worth of effort

Can you post piccies of current set up so we can see?

What pictures do you need? I'm going to take it apart tomorrow.

I just took it out for a ride and it felt extremely weird. I bike doesn't want to go straight, it's like there's a messed up centrifugal force moving the bike side to side. The handle bars are still pretty stiff too.

What do you mean the bars should flick side to side with a fingers effort? The handle bars? there is still some play and the bars aren't a 'fingers worth of effort' loose. Could the headset/fork prevent the bike from riding true?

Pictures of how you have assembled it to make sure all the bits are there.

If it doesn't want to go straight it's because there is something wrong with the headset. There should be no play at all.

You should be able to pick up the front of the bike and flick the handlebars from one side to another just using your finger. No effort at all should be needed.

Yes re your last question.

Do you know what headset is in there so we can check you gave all the pieces?

StewedHarry

Matthewfalle wrote:

StewedHarry wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

The gap may not be enough - try popping on a thin spacer and see what happens.

Are the bearings seated nicely on the crown race?

Is the crown race seated all nicely?

Amount or type of grease you have used doen’t Make any difference at all so no need to worry about that. Just slap it in.

Should be no play at all but bars flick side to side with just a finegr’s worth of effort

Can you post piccies of current set up so we can see?

What pictures do you need? I'm going to take it apart tomorrow.

I just took it out for a ride and it felt extremely weird. I bike doesn't want to go straight, it's like there's a messed up centrifugal force moving the bike side to side. The handle bars are still pretty stiff too.

What do you mean the bars should flick side to side with a fingers effort? The handle bars? there is still some play and the bars aren't a 'fingers worth of effort' loose. Could the headset/fork prevent the bike from riding true?

Pictures of how you have assembled it to make sure all the bits are there.

If it doesn't want to go straight it's because there is something wrong with the headset. There should be no play at all.

You should be able to pick up the front of the bike and flick the handlebars from one side to another just using your finger. No effort at all should be needed.

Yes re your last question.

Do you know what headset is in there so we can check you gave all the pieces?

So I took it apart, and may have found the root of the problem... https://imgur.com/a/iZiXk

The bearing had completely gone. And it turns out there are two bearings on either side of the stem cartridge: https://imgur.com/MaiSuPc

Here's the headset model: https://imgur.com/fHuCr5r

Can the black casing surrounding the bearings come off? Will they need to be replaced with the new headset?

https://imgur.com/P8isUa7

Here's the top of the fork steerer: https://imgur.com/v9rm95T

I think there's enough space there

cooldad

All headsets have a bearing top and bottom.

If you can find the right size bearings to fit the cups, you don't have to remove them. If you get a whole new headset you will have to remove them.

Looks like a 1 1/8th semi integrated headset to me, so any will fit.

The Cane Creek one you linked to looks about right. You'll have to remove the old cups, fit the new cups and bearings. And remove the crown race off the forks and replace it with the one that comes with the new headset.

Easy enough job with the right tools, easy enough to bodge with a screwdriver, mallet and bit of wood.

Matthewfalle

as above - easy peasy lemon squeezy to remove old and replace new. good fun to make tools as well: will post guide to making a phuckaton mk1 later when am not posting on a telephone.

yup - you need semi integrated as per Trek recommendation.

StewedHarry

Matthewfalle wrote:

as above - easy peasy lemon squeezy to remove old and replace new. good fun to make tools as well: will post guide to making a phuckaton mk1 later when am not posting on a telephone.

yup - you need semi integrated as per Trek recommendation.

Cheers. Appreciate it

Matthewfalle

Phuckaton mk1. Used the same thing for years, works perfect, costs zero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkY879pMafE

to remove old crown race, get a thin flat blade screwdriver, tap it under the old crown race all around the crown race - it will then lift off.

Good clean and grease up, you can either get suitable diameter pipe from b&q or plumber's factor to install new one or get lbs to do it- literally a 30 second job so should cost nothing but politeness and a smile.

Matthewfalle

Cup press making but I must admit that I bought the proper tool because I do quite a it of these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGfvO-ztoT4

cooldad

I made one like that years ago. Works on BBs too.

But sometimes I just use a bit of wood and a rubber mallet and whack them in.

Matthewfalle

cooldad wrote:

I made one like that years ago. Works on BBs too.

But sometimes I just use a bit of wood and a rubber mallet and whack them in.

YUp - that works.

Remember never to go metal on metal for smacking things.