More trouble for Team SKY.

Vino'sGhost

tim000 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3ct0c7s

I listened to this today. It's very interesting but particularly so given that it was recorded early 2017 before Froome's abnormal blood test.

His what now?

Anyway https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/stagger ... uture-sky/

At least they mention Parliamentary privilege in the article, because without it I wouldn't be convinced they'd be comfortable putting the content of it out there.

Also, Lawton seems to be a bit naive about how the world works.

I think Lawton also hasn't grasped that on the other side of the channel no-one really seems to give a toss about Wiggins and his jiffy bag. And the idea people who have worked alongside Sky 200 days a year for nearly ten years are going to have their opinions on Sky changed by MPs is frankly ridiculous.

not sure there are that many this side either . other than the anti murdoch press and a few internet keyboard warriors

Does the Anti Murdoch press include the Murdoch press then?

Matthewfalle

tim000 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3ct0c7s

I listened to this today. It's very interesting but particularly so given that it was recorded early 2017 before Froome's abnormal blood test.

His what now?

Anyway https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/stagger ... uture-sky/

At least they mention Parliamentary privilege in the article, because without it I wouldn't be convinced they'd be comfortable putting the content of it out there.

Also, Lawton seems to be a bit naive about how the world works.

I think Lawton also hasn't grasped that on the other side of the channel no-one really seems to give a toss about Wiggins and his jiffy bag. And the idea people who have worked alongside Sky 200 days a year for nearly ten years are going to have their opinions on Sky changed by MPs is frankly ridiculous.

not sure there are that many this side either . other than the anti murdoch press and a few internet keyboard warriors

Incorrect my learned fellow - there are quite a few. They tend to not be so blinkered by the potential cheating of britain's first Belgian born t de f winner.

carbonclem

I guess Matt Lawton thought he’d have had SDB’s scalp by now. His dilemma may be to push on in the unlikely search of taking it, or find a new target. Maybe back to Mo?

Vino'sGhost

RichN95 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3ct0c7s

I listened to this today. It's very interesting but particularly so given that it was recorded early 2017 before Froome's abnormal blood test.

His what now?

Anyway https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/stagger ... uture-sky/

At least they mention Parliamentary privilege in the article, because without it I wouldn't be convinced they'd be comfortable putting the content of it out there.

Also, Lawton seems to be a bit naive about how the world works.

I think Lawton also hasn't grasped that on the other side of the channel no-one really seems to give a toss about Wiggins and his jiffy bag. And the idea people who have worked alongside Sky 200 days a year for nearly ten years are going to have their opinions on Sky changed by MPs is frankly ridiculous.

Well that’s one way of looking at it. The other would be to read the commentators comments and listen to the other riders views. You’re having a bit of a putin inspired news revisionism

blazing_saddles

Vino's Ghost wrote:

Well that’s one way of looking at it. The other would be to read the commentators comments and listen to the other riders views. You’re having a bit of a putin inspired news revisionism

So, which foreign commentators do you listen to?
I've listened to quite a few recently and aside from a couple of minutes on Sporza, the day after the CMS report came out,it's been...............................................................

Matthewfalle wrote:

Incorrect my learned fellow - there are quite a few. They tend to not be so blinkered by the potential cheating of britain's first Belgian born t de f winner.

The British press have had almost nothing to say recently, never mind the foreign press.
You are right though, they aren't as blinkered. That's why they have hardly touched the story.

kingstongraham

CarbonClem wrote:

I guess Matt Lawton thought he’d have had SDB’s scalp by now. His dilemma may be to push on in the unlikely search of taking it, or find a new target. Maybe back to Mo?

Compared to the cyclists, Mo seems to be Teflon. Sad to say that his associations and bad hearing are much less believable than Sky.

blazing_saddles

RichN95 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3ct0c7s

I listened to this today. It's very interesting but particularly so given that it was recorded early 2017 before Froome's abnormal blood test.

His what now?

Anyway https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/stagger ... uture-sky/

At least they mention Parliamentary privilege in the article, because without it I wouldn't be convinced they'd be comfortable putting the content of it out there.

Also, Lawton seems to be a bit naive about how the world works.

I think Lawton also hasn't grasped that on the other side of the channel no-one really seems to give a toss about Wiggins and his jiffy bag. And the idea people who have worked alongside Sky 200 days a year for nearly ten years are going to have their opinions on Sky changed by MPs is frankly ridiculous.

Rich, I no longer see your avatar and a few others come to mention it.
It just says: User avatar.
Seems they are now disappearing along with some relevant threads.....

On the Sky reporting in Europe, I did a quick check to see what's the latest and it seems to back up what you say.

Corriere della Sera have completely clammed up since breaking the "Froome is going to plea bargain," b*llocks, way back in January.
Nothing at all from Gazzetta since they came up with the "Froome's case to be heard next week."
That was six weeks ago. 8)
L'Equipe only have two newer pieces: Cancellara saying speed the process up and Froome calling out Lappartient, ten days ago.

All the major sports outlets, including the three above did report Wiggins and the CMS report on March 5th, but nowt since.

RichN95.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Rich, I no longer see your avatar and a few others come to mention it.
It just says: User avatar.
Seems they are now disappearing along with some relevant threads.....

Yeah, I can't see yours (and some others)

I did a search on Gazzetta's website for 'Wiggins' in the last month and plenty of articles came up. Only two mentioned Bradley Wiggins, all the others mentioned Andrew Wiggins (an NBA player).

Froome is a big story as it effects the here and now. Wiggins is a story that goes next to the handball reports.

Vino'sGhost

Blazing Saddles wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3ct0c7s

I listened to this today. It's very interesting but particularly so given that it was recorded early 2017 before Froome's abnormal blood test.

His what now?

Anyway https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/stagger ... uture-sky/

At least they mention Parliamentary privilege in the article, because without it I wouldn't be convinced they'd be comfortable putting the content of it out there.

Also, Lawton seems to be a bit naive about how the world works.

I think Lawton also hasn't grasped that on the other side of the channel no-one really seems to give a toss about Wiggins and his jiffy bag. And the idea people who have worked alongside Sky 200 days a year for nearly ten years are going to have their opinions on Sky changed by MPs is frankly ridiculous.

Rich, I no longer see your avatar and a few others come to mention it.
It just says: User avatar.
Seems they are now disappearing along with some relevant threads.....

On the Sky reporting in Europe, I did a quick check to see what's the latest and it seems to back up what you say.

Corriere della Sera have completely clammed up since breaking the "Froome is going to plea bargain," b*llocks, way back in January.
Nothing at all from Gazzetta since they came up with the "Froome's case to be heard next week."
That was six weeks ago. 8)
L'Equipe only have two newer pieces: Cancellara saying speed the process up and Froome calling out Lappartient, ten days ago.

All the major sports outlets, including the three above did report Wiggins and the CMS report on March 5th, but nowt since.

So about a week then..... Theres nothing happening thats new, when it does Im sure theyll report.

shirley_basso

It's exactly 2 weeks to the day, not 'about a week'.

Not that it makes a difference either way, but a random statistic to get so completely wrong when the maths is pretty easy.

sherer

RichN95 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Rich, I no longer see your avatar and a few others come to mention it.
It just says: User avatar.
Seems they are now disappearing along with some relevant threads.....

Yeah, I can't see yours (and some others)

I did a search on Gazzetta's website for 'Wiggins' in the last month and plenty of articles came up. Only two mentioned Bradley Wiggins, all the others mentioned Andrew Wiggins (an NBA player).

Froome is a big story as it effects the here and now. Wiggins is a story that goes next to the handball reports.

I'm missing avatars, and even worse not getting notifications ! All seems to stem from the forum meltdown last week

larkim

KingstonGraham wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

I guess Matt Lawton thought he’d have had SDB’s scalp by now. His dilemma may be to push on in the unlikely search of taking it, or find a new target. Maybe back to Mo?

Compared to the cyclists, Mo seems to be Teflon. Sad to say that his associations and bad hearing are much less believable than Sky.

I'd disagree - I've' missed the bloody loud doorbell we've got many times (as have other members of my family). And I'm sure even if you are a "whereabouts" individual, it's not as if you get tested every day so whilst it was fairly stupid, it's not that implausible that you'd miss the doorbell.

In terms of his associations, most of that (with the exception of Salazar of course) is standard forum trolling drawing links and associations that I strongly suspect aren't really there.

MacKenna in the Irish Independent over the weekend published a very negative article about Farah, but reading it carefully there was a very light emphasis on fact, and a very heavy emphasis on pre-judged views and leaping to unnecessary conclusions.

kingstongraham

larkim wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

I guess Matt Lawton thought he’d have had SDB’s scalp by now. His dilemma may be to push on in the unlikely search of taking it, or find a new target. Maybe back to Mo?

Compared to the cyclists, Mo seems to be Teflon. Sad to say that his associations and bad hearing are much less believable than Sky.

I'd disagree - I've' missed the bloody loud doorbell we've got many times (as have other members of my family). And I'm sure even if you are a "whereabouts" individual, it's not as if you get tested every day so whilst it was fairly stupid, it's not that implausible that you'd miss the doorbell.

In terms of his associations, most of that (with the exception of Salazar of course) is standard forum trolling drawing links and associations that I strongly suspect aren't really there.

MacKenna in the Irish Independent over the weekend published a very negative article about Farah, but reading it carefully there was a very light emphasis on fact, and a very heavy emphasis on pre-judged views and leaping to unnecessary conclusions.

So that's with the exception of his coach of 6 years, then. And Jama Aden being used as an "unofficial facilitator" on his training camp in Ethiopia.

I'm not saying he's guilty, as it's all smoke but no fire - but there's more smoke there than around Wiggins.

Vino'sGhost

Shirley Basso wrote:

It's exactly 2 weeks to the day, not 'about a week'.

Not that it makes a difference either way, but a random statistic to get so completely wrong when the maths is pretty easy.

Not when his comment was made which is what I replied to but even so, nothing has happened in the interviening time.

But quite easy to overlook when the maths is pretty easy but doesn’t support your argument love.

blazing_saddles

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

It's exactly 2 weeks to the day, not 'about a week'.

Not that it makes a difference either way, but a random statistic to get so completely wrong when the maths is pretty easy.

Not when his comment was made which is what I replied to but even so, nothing has happened in the interviening time.

But quite easy to overlook when the maths is pretty easy but doesn’t support your argument love.

No idea what you are trying to say here.
Maybe it's because you are wriggling too much.
I guess a week is a long, long time in Sky politics.

Matthewfalle

KingstonGraham wrote:

larkim wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

I guess Matt Lawton thought he’d have had SDB’s scalp by now. His dilemma may be to push on in the unlikely search of taking it, or find a new target. Maybe back to Mo?

Compared to the cyclists, Mo seems to be Teflon. Sad to say that his associations and bad hearing are much less believable than Sky.

I'd disagree - I've' missed the bloody loud doorbell we've got many times (as have other members of my family). And I'm sure even if you are a "whereabouts" individual, it's not as if you get tested every day so whilst it was fairly stupid, it's not that implausible that you'd miss the doorbell.

In terms of his associations, most of that (with the exception of Salazar of course) is standard forum trolling drawing links and associations that I strongly suspect aren't really there.

MacKenna in the Irish Independent over the weekend published a very negative article about Farah, but reading it carefully there was a very light emphasis on fact, and a very heavy emphasis on pre-judged views and leaping to unnecessary conclusions.

So that's with the exception of his coach of 6 years, then. And Jama Aden being used as an "unofficial facilitator" on his training camp in Ethiopia.y

I'm not saying he's guilty, as it's all smoke but no fire - but there's more smoke there than around Wiggins.

Isn't Farah one of these dudes who was very average then got a new doctor and was suddenly top of the world?

bobmcstuff

larkim wrote:

reading it carefully there was a very light emphasis on fact, and a very heavy emphasis on pre-judged views and leaping to unnecessary conclusions.

That sounds awfully familiar!

larkim

Matthewfalle wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

So that's with the exception of his coach of 6 years, then. And Jama Aden being used as an "unofficial facilitator" on his training camp in Ethiopia.y

I'm not saying he's guilty, as it's all smoke but no fire - but there's more smoke there than around Wiggins.

Isn't Farah one of these dudes who was very average then got a new doctor and was suddenly top of the world?

I really hate the smoke / fire analogy - have you never seen charcoal being made or watched a smouldering pile of ashes? Anyway, that's a diversion...

Agreed, I didn't mention Salazar, because if Salazar is doping (and let's face it, there's not been any activity from USADA which says there is, despite LOTs of rumour and accusation - he's either got their grandchildren kidnapped or there really is nothing to prosecute there).

In terms of a dude who was "average" - plenty of junior titles from an early age, including the junior and inter boys champion at the presitgious English Schools XC champs (if you're into athletics, you'll know this is one of the toughest comps out there, and he couldn't run the seniors as it was cancelled that year). European junior 5000m champ, European senior 5000m silver medallist early in his career, European XC champion, 6th in the 5000m world champs in 2007, 3000m indoor british record holder, 2009 European indoor gold medallist. He was by no means average, but equally he was not the best in the world.

He continued a natural progression after a bit of a plateau between 2009 and 2011 - I get fed up with pointing out that people like Salazar only recruit into their training groups people they think they can do more with. It would have been more surprising if he'd continued that plateaued level of performance under Salazar - you don't go to a new coach and expect to remain the same otherwise what would be the point!

But as with Wiggins, Sky, etc. People have pre-formed views (including myself). Facts won't get in the way of that.

blazing_saddles

After yesterday's little exchange, the BBC finally have something new, today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/43469788

Be interesting to see how the non-blinkered fraternity view this. Spin or ignore.

kingstongraham

larkim wrote:

I really hate the smoke / fire analogy - have you never seen charcoal being made or watched a smouldering pile of ashes? Anyway, that's a diversion...

It's quite pertinent, as there can be lots of smoke without fire. I've got an open mind about both Farah and Wiggins. Farah winning the 5,000 in 2012 was probably the best sporting event I've ever been to.

I just don't understand why so much seems to be made of the Wiggins TUE, and so little about Farah's infusions/injections. In both cases, they said no Wada rules were broken.

larkim

KingstonGraham wrote:

larkim wrote:

I really hate the smoke / fire analogy - have you never seen charcoal being made or watched a smouldering pile of ashes? Anyway, that's a diversion...

It's quite pertinent, as there can be lots of smoke without fire. I've got an open mind about both Farah and Wiggins. Farah winning the 5,000 in 2012 was probably the best sporting event I've ever been to.

I just don't understand why so much seems to be made of the Wiggins TUE, and so little about Farah's infusions/injections. In both cases, they said no Wada rules were broken.

The difference with Farah is that the L-Carnitine infusion / injection is by its nature legal (subject to quantities) in and out of competition, so I suppose that puts them in a slightly different context. But broadly I agree - they are both non-stories!

In terms of smoke / fire - that's my point, there are plenty of smoke where there is no fire!

2fast748

It's his (Froome's) kidneys fault:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... rumbles-on

Vino'sGhost

Blazing Saddles wrote:

After yesterday's little exchange, the BBC finally have something new, today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/43469788

Be interesting to see how the non-blinkered fraternity view this. Spin or ignore.

Ive never seen anything wrong with the TUE in principal just the blatant abuse of it in order to cheat.

Vino'sGhost

2fast748 wrote:

It's his (Froome's) kidneys fault:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... rumbles-on

Apparently its a very rare disease that has no symptoms other than it causes the bladder to manufacture and excrete pharmaceuticals. Its taken this long because the cause is a bite from a terrified rabbit that was being fed to a snake.

This is very rare and the medical team is looking to hear from other multiple tour winners who may have been bitten by a rabbit in childhood. Unfortunately no other tour winnner is willing to testify even if they too have been bitten by a pet of any type. So it looks like well have to take his word for it

bompington

Vino'sGhost wrote:

2fast748 wrote:

It's his (Froome's) kidneys fault:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... rumbles-on

Apparently its a very rare disease that has no symptoms other than it causes the bladder to manufacture and excrete pharmaceuticals. Its taken this long because the cause is a bite from a terrified rabbit that was being fed to a snake.

This is very rare and the medical team is looking to hear from other multiple tour winners who may have been bitten by a rabbit in childhood. Unfortunately no other tour winnner is willing to testify even if they too have been bitten by a pet of any type. So it looks like well have to take his word for it

Do you have any idea how petty and childish you sound in this post?

blazing_saddles

bompington wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

2fast748 wrote:

It's his (Froome's) kidneys fault:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... rumbles-on

Apparently its a very rare disease that has no symptoms other than it causes the bladder to manufacture and excrete pharmaceuticals. Its taken this long because the cause is a bite from a terrified rabbit that was being fed to a snake.

This is very rare and the medical team is looking to hear from other multiple tour winners who may have been bitten by a rabbit in childhood. Unfortunately no other tour winnner is willing to testify even if they too have been bitten by a pet of any type. So it looks like well have to take his word for it

Do you have any idea how petty and childish you sound in this post?

Only in this post?

Lappartient needs to shut his mouth, stay clear of the media and just let due process take it's course.
Are the UCI going to fast track their response to Froome's defence?
Of course not and if they did rush to judge, it could leave the door to CAS wide open.
Which would make matters even more protracted.

sherer

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

After yesterday's little exchange, the BBC finally have something new, today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/43469788

Be interesting to see how the non-blinkered fraternity view this. Spin or ignore.

Ive never seen anything wrong with the TUE in principal just the blatant abuse of it in order to cheat.

is it actually being abused though ? Even the fancy bears leaks didn't exactly reveal wide spread use of TUEs and the UCI put some stats out that said there was a very small number of TUEs over the last few seasons

kingstongraham

2fast748 wrote:

It's his (Froome's) kidneys fault:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... rumbles-on

That only reports the reports from last year that he the kidneys might be a possible avenue of investigation. Nothing new is there?

Vino'sGhost

bompington wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

2fast748 wrote:

It's his (Froome's) kidneys fault:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... rumbles-on

Apparently its a very rare disease that has no symptoms other than it causes the bladder to manufacture and excrete pharmaceuticals. Its taken this long because the cause is a bite from a terrified rabbit that was being fed to a snake.

This is very rare and the medical team is looking to hear from other multiple tour winners who may have been bitten by a rabbit in childhood. Unfortunately no other tour winnner is willing to testify even if they too have been bitten by a pet of any type. So it looks like well have to take his word for it

Do you have any idea how petty and childish you sound in this post?

Do you have any idea how little i care about you or your opinion? it was meant as tongue in cheek and as ridiculous as some of the other cycling excuses.

Vino'sGhost

sherer wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

After yesterday's little exchange, the BBC finally have something new, today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/43469788

Be interesting to see how the non-blinkered fraternity view this. Spin or ignore.

Ive never seen anything wrong with the TUE in principal just the blatant abuse of it in order to cheat.

is it actually being abused though ? Even the fancy bears leaks didn't exactly reveal wide spread use of TUEs and the UCI put some stats out that said there was a very small number of TUEs over the last few seasons

It certainly was being abused. thats the opinion of other team sky doctors, the coach and the mps investigating. Its a little more difficult to abuse now apparently.