What no podium girls?

earth

So after a hundred or so years, without any voice of dissent or a discussion on the subject, in the blink of an eye podium girls are on the block? I think this requires an explanation. I have my suspicions and I say again there has been no voice of dissent.

big_harv

Didn't seem to have stopped the UCI at Apeldoorn this evening. All very tasteful of course.

More importantly, someone should perhaps ask the girls involved. Do they have a union of some kind...?

pblakeney

Covered at great length here - http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=13082784

big_harv

PBlakeney wrote:

Covered at great length here - http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=13082784

So it seems, thanks. Typical forum debate of course. Briefly skimmed - I wonder how many women contributed to the more sensible comments. Or even the not so sensible comments.

Pross

Big Harv wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Covered at great length here - http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=13082784

So it seems, thanks. Typical forum debate of course. Briefly skimmed - I wonder how many women contributed to the more sensible comments. Or even the not so sensible comments.

At least 3 that I’m aware of, none of them sad to see them go.

diamonddog

The podium girls are the ones that are affected the most and they don’t seem to want a change, also they do not have a say in the matter it seems.
The world has gone mad!

mrfpb

A hundred years? I don't think so. from the 60's maybe but happy to be corrected.

No voice of dissent? The girl pinched on the bottom by Peter Sagan objected. Lots of cyclist look uncomfortable on the podium with them.

Pross

I'm pretty much ambivalent on the matter, they don't add anything to the sport but I think there is also a lot of hysteria with the argument that the only women girls see bike races are there for their looks - if you follow that logically having podium girls at women's races would be OK and potentially a good thing as it shows girls they can get by on both sporting prowess and looks. There's also a big range in how they are treated from the downright tackiness in many smaller (especially Belgian) races to something like the Tour where are generally well dressed and perform a wide ranging PR role.

I won't be sad if they go and likewise I won't be throwing things at the TV if races carry on using them, I watch cycling for the sporting aspects.

awavey

personally I think there are bigger issues (still) in terms of equality representation of women in cycling than worrying that much about the podium girls, for instance the womens UCI world tour kicked off yesterday and they also rode the Strade Bianche too, not that youd have noticed from the TV coverage, because there principally wasnt a whole lot of it, not sure Eurosport have even gotten round to showing the highlights yet in between the endless snooker, and the mainstream cycling media sort of treat it as a footnote to the mens race.

So am I fussed about the principle of women being part of the presentation process at the end of a race, well not really in the grand scheme of things, as long as they are being treated with respect.

but then I think it was one of the races in Holland in the last week or two, I cant find the picture now, and maybe it wasnt that big a race, but it looked like the podium girls were just modelling underwear they had so few clothes on, and then I think hold on no that kind of stuff is not on at all, thats totally wrong imo and that should definitely be the stuff cycling as a sport drops completely.

Pross

awavey wrote:

personally I think there are bigger issues (still) in terms of equality representation of women in cycling than worrying that much about the podium girls, for instance the womens UCI world tour kicked off yesterday and they also rode the Strade Bianche too, not that youd have noticed from the TV coverage, because there principally wasnt a whole lot of it, not sure Eurosport have even gotten round to showing the highlights yet in between the endless snooker, and the mainstream cycling media sort of treat it as a footnote to the mens race.

So am I fussed about the principle of women being part of the presentation process at the end of a race, well not really in the grand scheme of things, as long as they are being treated with respect.

but then I think it was one of the races in Holland in the last week or two, I cant find the picture now, and maybe it wasnt that big a race, but it looked like the podium girls were just modelling underwear they had so few clothes on, and then I think hold on no that kind of stuff is not on at all, thats totally wrong imo and that should definitely be the stuff cycling as a sport drops completely.

This is like someone more eloquent read my mind and posted my opinion!

haydenm

I think I said in the other thread, I'm not overly bothered, if they weren't there I wouldn't notice and if you really care that much about them being there then it's maybe a bit creepy. I might feel more strongly if I was in charge of trying to get girls into sports, or I had a daughter or something. Asking what the girls themselves think is largely irrelevant, it's about the image of the sport and what sort of role models we want to have for kids. If you were starting an event now and podium girls had never existed, would you think 'ah yes, what a great idea'?

mrfpb

It's a bit pointless asking people (In this instance podium girls) if they would like to publicly critisize their employer.

earth

awavey wrote:

personally I think there are bigger issues (still) in terms of equality representation of women in cycling than worrying that much about the podium girls, for instance the womens UCI world tour kicked off yesterday and they also rode the Strade Bianche too, not that youd have noticed from the TV coverage, because there principally wasnt a whole lot of it, not sure Eurosport have even gotten round to showing the highlights yet in between the endless snooker, and the mainstream cycling media sort of treat it as a footnote to the mens race.

I agree with you here so how about opening up the sport to women instead of closing it down. But that wasn't quite what I was getting at. Where has this come from? While the Sagan incident was disgraceful it was a one off by a young man who is still pulling wheelies. It hardly represents the attitude of cycling as a whole towards women. So again the question where has this come from? Who has put on the pressure to do this and why has there been no lead up to it in the media?

rjsterry

Really? Regardless of what you think of it, you can't work out where this has come from?

earth

No, it appears to have come out of the blue. I know F1 and Darts have done this first but I don't know where that came from either. Care to enlighten me? EDIT - Well I have my suspicions but I don't know.

lettingthedaysgoby

earth wrote:

No, it appears to have come out of the blue. I know F1 and Darts have done this first but I don't know where that came from either. Care to enlighten me? EDIT - Well I have my suspicions but I don't know.

It came from it now being 2018 and not 1973.

earth

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

earth wrote:

No, it appears to have come out of the blue. I know F1 and Darts have done this first but I don't know where that came from either. Care to enlighten me? EDIT - Well I have my suspicions but I don't know.

It came from it now being 2018 and not 1973.

So who's been complaining?

Matthewfalle

You do all realise that this has all been covered passim?

rjsterry

earth wrote:

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

earth wrote:

No, it appears to have come out of the blue. I know F1 and Darts have done this first but I don't know where that came from either. Care to enlighten me? EDIT - Well I have my suspicions but I don't know.

It came from it now being 2018 and not 1973.

So who's been complaining?

Why does someone have to have complained?

(Yes, MF, I know)

robert88

More important is the apparent stranglehold the TdF owners have put on any similar event for female cyclists. Copyright and all that.

Personally I find the spectacle of the men's event extremely tacky, as amusingly parodied in Belleville Rendezvous. These days it is a parody of itself!

awavey

earth wrote:

awavey wrote:

personally I think there are bigger issues (still) in terms of equality representation of women in cycling than worrying that much about the podium girls, for instance the womens UCI world tour kicked off yesterday and they also rode the Strade Bianche too, not that youd have noticed from the TV coverage, because there principally wasnt a whole lot of it, not sure Eurosport have even gotten round to showing the highlights yet in between the endless snooker, and the mainstream cycling media sort of treat it as a footnote to the mens race.

I agree with you here so how about opening up the sport to women instead of closing it down. But that wasn't quite what I was getting at. Where has this come from? While the Sagan incident was disgraceful it was a one off by a young man who is still pulling wheelies. It hardly represents the attitude of cycling as a whole towards women. So again the question where has this come from? Who has put on the pressure to do this and why has there been no lead up to it in the media?

this photo was 2015, but this was at a UCI 1.1 womens race, thats the attitude towards women, cycling as a whole must change as its unacceptable


yes Sagans thing was a one off, yes bikini clad podium girls are fortunately rare, yes all the other stuff in isolation might seem not that serious, but its the accumulation of all these things together and over time, that makes it feel like in cycling women do get objectified and treated appalingly.

I mean transfer the stuff weve seen from Hollywood the #metoo campaign, and the sexual abuse case in sports like gymnastics, and ask yourself do you think pro cycling would pass much scrutiny. Missy Erickson came forward to report the sexual abuse she suffered as a junior, and Petra de Bruin and Marijn de Vries have also confirmed similar experiences, I doubt they are the only cases,, and there are lots of young women riding for teams, some barely out of their teens who are isolated from family and are going to be confronted with this pervasive attitude among predominantly male team staff, that like Sagan its ok to pinch a bum in isolation from time to time.

thats why its wrong, and its 2018 now, we shouldnt need to have to complain or put pressure on anyone to keep telling them that people should just be treating us as equals and with respect.

earth

awavey wrote:

earth wrote:

awavey wrote:

personally I think there are bigger issues (still) in terms of equality representation of women in cycling than worrying that much about the podium girls, for instance the womens UCI world tour kicked off yesterday and they also rode the Strade Bianche too, not that youd have noticed from the TV coverage, because there principally wasnt a whole lot of it, not sure Eurosport have even gotten round to showing the highlights yet in between the endless snooker, and the mainstream cycling media sort of treat it as a footnote to the mens race.

I agree with you here so how about opening up the sport to women instead of closing it down. But that wasn't quite what I was getting at. Where has this come from? While the Sagan incident was disgraceful it was a one off by a young man who is still pulling wheelies. It hardly represents the attitude of cycling as a whole towards women. So again the question where has this come from? Who has put on the pressure to do this and why has there been no lead up to it in the media?

this photo was 2015, but this was at a UCI 1.1 womens race, thats the attitude towards women, cycling as a whole must change as its unacceptable


yes Sagans thing was a one off, yes bikini clad podium girls are fortunately rare, yes all the other stuff in isolation might seem not that serious, but its the accumulation of all these things together and over time, that makes it feel like in cycling women do get objectified and treated appalingly.

I mean transfer the stuff weve seen from Hollywood the #metoo campaign, and the sexual abuse case in sports like gymnastics, and ask yourself do you think pro cycling would pass much scrutiny. Missy Erickson came forward to report the sexual abuse she suffered as a junior, and Petra de Bruin and Marijn de Vries have also confirmed similar experiences, I doubt they are the only cases,, and there are lots of young women riding for teams, some barely out of their teens who are isolated from family and are going to be confronted with this pervasive attitude among predominantly male team staff, that like Sagan its ok to pinch a bum in isolation from time to time.

thats why its wrong, and its 2018 now, we shouldnt need to have to complain or put pressure on anyone to keep telling them that people should just be treating us as equals and with respect.

I think you have convinced me with this argument. The only issue I have heard of in womens in cycling was the Jessica Varnish Shane Sutton thing but despite that and after the Weinstein it does seem better and more responsible to try and avoid these things.