Calling wheelbuilders or knowledgable people (Ugo etc)

volvo_fatboy
volvo_fatboy Posts: 69
edited March 2018 in Road buying advice
I’m asking on behalf of a mate who has destroyed factory built wheels and wants something more durable......

I know very little about hand built wheels as what components to use, so looking for any ideas/suggestions on wheel builds and components.

He had a pair of F4R Clinchers (40mm carbon with alloy braking surface) which he destroyed. Suffered a huge crack in the rear wheel rim (replaced under warranty) with no crashes or huge impacts to cause the issue (could be bad luck). Front wheel has since cracked, possible pothole impact.

He’s looking for 35-40mm deep aero clinchers (possibly a little deeper) as light as possible.

Info about him: Weight 100kg, FTP currently 368 Watts, Max output 1800 watts.

Max budget £800.

I’ve a thread on here picking holes in wheelbuilders suggestions of using certain hubs and spokes. So would like other suggestions.

Thanks for any suggestions/help in advance.
Paul.

Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,100
    Ultimately, your friend is an ox and will always wreck equipment.

    If he wants to ride sportives, then probably best to get something overbuilt, heavier and durable, with solid rims that gets him to the finish without having to call a cab, sacrificing a handful of minutes over 100 miles.
    Shimano hubs, Velocity Chukker rims et voilla... probably looking at 2 kg.

    If he wants to race, TT, bash segments on Strava, go for an hour averaging 25, then get light aero wheels in the know that he will eventually wreck them, no matter who builds them.

    Maybe he can try talking to Wheelsmith, but ultimately even the latter puts a 90Kg weigh limit on anything which is remotely racey
    left the forum March 2023
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,546
    https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collection ... 1-wheelset

    Something like these in the heavy rider build. Pointless trying to skimp on a few grams at 100kg.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,100
    MrB123 wrote:
    https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-brake-wheelsets/products/borg31-wheelset

    Something like these in the heavy rider build. Pointless trying to skimp on a few grams at 100kg.


    Obviously Malcolm has a lot more experience on these 31 mm Kinlins, I have only built one set and only in 24 H, but I didn't get the impression of a particularly solid rim. It is wide and deep and therefore stiff, but is it a robust and solid rim? No. Then of course it boils down to what one considers "solid"... we might have different opinions on this.

    Velocity Chukker is a beast which, having very similar outer dimensions, weighs over 150 grams more than the Kinlin... so where is all that weight? In the inside dimensions... hence thicker spoke bed for instance, which means less likely to crack if abused.

    These are the two rim profiles, although the Velocity doesn't quote the nipple bed thickness, it seems self explanatory

    Chukker_1_322_450.png

    XR31T-5.jpg
    left the forum March 2023
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    I'm 105 kgs and have a set of Cycle Clinic's 31mm Kinlin rims on Miche hubs. I've owned them a year but I haven't put a lot of miles on them yet for reasons not relevant to the thread. However in roughly 2k miles they've remained true despite taking a few big hits from potholes etc. Saying that, my Zondas covered many thousands of miles over 4 years and were plenty stiff enough without going out of true either. This is counter intuitive for a low spoke count wheel I know. Maybe I was lucky? For info the Cycle Clinic wheels have a higher spoke count. I can't vouch for any aero properties but according to my Strava I am consistently faster than I was on the Zondas albeit not by huge amounts. This could easily be due to the IRC tubeless tyres as much as anything else I don't know.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,100
    Shortfall wrote:
    I'm 105 kgs and have a set of Cycle Clinic's 31mm Kinlin rims on Miche hubs...

    It's not necessarily about the weight. Some people are just harder on their equipment.

    Let's put things into context.. .assuming the numbers quoted are correct(we all know how these FTP are largely exaggerated in most cases, but let's not go there).
    370 Watt is the FTP of a decent PRO, except the OP's friend weighs 50% more than a decent PRO with that power. In addition he has a fairly high power at sprint... in line with Cavendish, but weighs 50% more than Cavendish.
    You can easily see how equipment which is fine for the vast majority of people, including heavy people, might be completely inadequate for others.

    People who race at decent level (I am talking about CAT 1 or higher) or have that kind of power tend to experience issues that weekend warriors seem to get away without.
    left the forum March 2023
  • Thanks for your input guys!

    I never knew about the Cycle Clinic, and they’re only just up the road from us...so will be giving him all the info here so he can make an informed decision..

    As Ugo correctly pointed out he is an ox, he goes through Bottom bracket cups in a year. He completed the Tour of Cambridge ride, 80 miles at average 22.8mph with an average power of 268W, weighted average of 304W, cadence 90rpm, maxing out at 1041W that day.
  • As Ugo correctly pointed out he is an ox, he goes through Bottom bracket cups in a year. He completed the Tour of Cambridge ride, 80 miles at average 22.8mph with an average power of 268W, weighted average of 304W, cadence 90rpm, maxing out at 1041W that day.

    Did he have a mechanical that slowed him?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • beanstalk
    beanstalk Posts: 143
    I’m asking on behalf of a mate who has destroyed factory built wheels and wants something more durable......
    He had a pair of F4R Clinchers (40mm carbon with alloy braking surface) which he destroyed.
    On http://www.ffwdwheels.com they claim that their wheels are handbuilt in Holland, so not really different from any wheel builder.
    Carbon wheels with 20/24 spokes.

    To me the course of action would be more spokes: 24/28 or even 28/32.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    I've got 20kg on the rider in question and a similar number of watts.

    I see where Ugo is coming from on the Chukkers, but they are overkill for what the rider in question wants - unless he is planning a very long trip, or off roading.

    As per the above suggestion, Kinlin XR31t rims with a 32 or 28 spoke rear, 24 or 28 spoke front should be fine, and certainly strong enough that he finds himself in the situation I'm in - which is that I break frames more often than I break wheels.

    I'm sure Malcolm at the Cycle Clinic will sort you out, and stand by the quality of whatever he builds you.
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    As Ugo correctly pointed out he is an ox, he goes through Bottom bracket cups in a year. He completed the Tour of Cambridge ride, 80 miles at average 22.8mph with an average power of 268W, weighted average of 304W, cadence 90rpm, maxing out at 1041W that day.

    Did he have a mechanical that slowed him?

    :lol:

    Was thinking that myself!
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    The chucker is an example of a overly solid rim but not tubeless compatible. The Kinlin XR31T is solid enough that not one of all the one's I have built with (including the XR22T) has ever cracked. I use nipple washers though as without them the rim may crack for some riders. They can handle very high spoke tensions with washers reliably. i have tried.

    I did the Toc at 24.2 mph average this is irrelvant though.how fast you are or how much power you develop does not seem to correlate with anything about wheel longevity. Weight and the ammount of sideloading seems to be more important. humans excluding chris hoy in his prime just dont produce enough torque. The problem always seems to be when heavy riders pick wheels that are a bit too light for them and the flex that results eventually takes it toll. flex is how rims and spokes fatigue and fail. your mate will have hit some holes and that could be enough with added miles to cause the rim to fail. the spoke nipple bed thickness may also not be enough.

    The toughest light rim is still the h plus son archetype but this is not tubeless compatible. the nipple bed is so thick they cant crack. the down side is due to it shape to get similar lateral stiffness form a XR31T in 28H drilling you need 36 spokes on the archetype.

    as spoke failure is not the issue here then an archetype or kinlin rim with washers should be enough.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • beanstalk
    beanstalk Posts: 143
    as spoke failure is not the issue here then an archetype or kinlin rim with washers should be enough.
    But the issue may be related to a low spoke count....