SRAM Apex 1 Hydro free play

bendertherobot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO6TO1JdZCA

I have the same issue as the above. I can get rid of it by dialling the reach, using the under bolt, right out. But then the reach is insane. Keeping it where it is, and where it was when the bike arrived, and I have that free play. It doesn't really affect anything, but it may drive me nuts

It's on a Vitus from Wiggle so, at the moment, I'd rather not send it back! Any thoughts?

pedropete

Are the pads/pistons moving back when you release the lever?

bendertherobot

pedropete wrote:

Are the pads/pistons moving back when you release the lever?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6aS8kV4QMg

That probably explains it a bit better. It's the left hand (right in video as upside down) lever, the one without a shifter.

As I understand it that grub screw deals with reach only. And, if you adjust reach the lever outwards travel should be pegged. It certainly does adjust for reach. But to eliminate the play I have to dial the reach of that lever right out. And, if I do that, it has an effect on the hydraulics in that they become essentially stiffer and on/off. Still work well but not as easy or progressive as the right hand. But, I thought, lever travel should have no effect on the hydraulics at all?

timothyw

Mmm. It's tricky because I think any hydraulic brake which has wear correction will have a short dead zone at the start of the travel (as the piston moves to cover the reservoir port).

I don't have any direct experience, but from using the Giant Conduct I can see that there is a short amount of travel in which I can see the cable (and piston) moving but before the pads have started to move.

I had a bit of a happy revelation the other day as I realised that the tiagra 4600 brifters I was using come fitted with rubber bumpers as standard to reduce the reach, meaning I don't need to pull the levers quite so close to the bars to get braking effect (although I do need to still pull them just as far, I have big hands and would worry more about running out of travel than not being able to reach them).

Either way, they definitely look likely to require a mental adjustment period as compared to the rim brakes and spyre disk brakes I'm used to (which can fairly easily be dialled in to reduce lever travel to a minimum).

bendertherobot

It's more than a dead zone, it's hard to demonstrate on the video. When I say free play, that first bit of play is essentially like a shifter without a cable, utterly free with no effect on braking at all. Then you can feel the hydro come in. It's definitely not air or lack of fluid, braking is superb. It's loose something or other.

pedropete

bendertherobot wrote:

It's more than a dead zone, it's hard to demonstrate on the video. When I say free play, that first bit of play is essentially like a shifter without a cable, utterly free with no effect on braking at all. Then you can feel the hydro come in. It's definitely not air or lack of fluid, braking is superb. It's loose something or other.

I was about to suggest exactly that. I’ve no idea what the circuits in these brakes look like so no way of knowing whether underfilling would cause retraction issues. I’ve the opposite issue in that I think one of mine is overfilled, preventing pistons retracting far enough. Out of ideas I’m afraid.

timothyw

Mmm. One to put to Wiggle/SRAM I think.

At least if the brakes should subsequently give you issues you will know if wiggle think they are behaving as expected now.

bendertherobot

Yeah, I will be taking it in shortly for diagnosis.

On the way home I did wonder whether the left felt slightly, ever so, spongier than the right. So, if, as said, the circuits play together, it's conceivable that the reach lever works in tandem with the hydraulic pressure somehow and, if underfilled, it doesn't all quite return to the right position....

pedropete

If you’ve got a bleed kit maybe give it a go and see what happens. Going to bleed mine tomorrow in the hope it’ll sort the retraction issue on the back, and may as well do the front while I’m at it. Given that it appears they managed to overfill the rear then god only knows how much air is in either of ‘em.

bendertherobot

pedropete wrote:

If you’ve got a bleed kit maybe give it a go and see what happens. Going to bleed mine tomorrow in the hope it’ll sort the retraction issue on the back, and may as well do the front while I’m at it. Given that it appears they managed to overfill the rear then god only knows how much air is in either of ‘em.

Mine's brand new, only 3 days old. Wiggle have said take it to LBS and they will pay any repair etc. So that's what I'll do. Lovely otherwise, and only a minor pain!

essex-commuter

Is there any update to this? My Vitus is suffering the same issue, left hand only (no shifter as it's 1 x 11).

bendertherobot

I had it fixed by SRAM/LBS and wiggle paid the labour charges. It was fine. But recently has started to rattle slightly. May have a look at it later.

essex-commuter

bendertherobot wrote:

I had it fixed by SRAM/LBS and wiggle paid the labour charges. It was fine. But recently has started to rattle slightly. May have a look at it later.

Thanks for replying. Mine actually rattles quite bad unless I grip the hood fairly tightly, the rattle doesn't seem to be coming from the lever play.

So your bike shop had to get SRAM involved? Do you know what the actual issue was? Wiggle have told me to take it to my LBS and let them know the outcome, they haven't actually said we will pay but they haven't said they won't.

If I can give my LBS and indication of what the problem actually is it might help them diagnose quicker.

Thanks again.

bendertherobot

They said my lever was assembled wrong. Not quite sure exactly how. Took 2 days to get it back from sram.

essex-commuter

bendertherobot wrote:

They said my lever was assembled wrong. Not quite sure exactly how. Took 2 days to get it back from sram.

OK, thank you for that.

pedropete

Old thread I know but this seems to be an ongoing issue across the current generation of Apex/Rival/Force HRD brifters.

Just found this video explaining the likely cause of this and a few other related issues, along with some relatively simple steps (if a bit fiddly) towards a fix. No idea if the replacement piston assembly he mentions will be available as a UK spare and waiting for a response from ZyroFisher on that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqEHA2dRgqs&t=980s