The Great Cycling City of Birmingham - UK

kingrollo

What a pleasure it is to be a cyclist in the great city of Birmingham:-

-There seemed a been a whole spate of cycling fatalities last year in Birmingham and surrounding areas
-The place is rammed with cars and the region must account for 50% of white van sales
-You see more recumbent s and uni cycles that you do traffic police !

I did hope the Birmingham velo was to represent a sign of better things to come - the sceptic in me was pleasantly surprised when the thing actually ran - but even thats been dropped for 2018, with some half assed promised of a 2019 velo (yeah right)

And today comes the news that the cycling for for the commonwealth games hosted in Birmingham - will use a london based velodrome for the cycling events.

I still think the city secretly hankers for a return of car manufacturing to the region, and really has no concept of how promote cycling within the city.

wongataa

The Commonwealth track cycling events were always going to be held in Manchester or London. The city can't afford to build a velodrome.

carbonclem

Why isn't Derby being used?

Its only 50 miles away from Brum, and last I heard it was losing big money. The games might be what's needed to promote it a bit.

Or have I missed some technical issues with the venue?

kingrollo

CarbonClem wrote:

Why isn't Derby being used?

Its only 50 miles away from Brum, and last I heard it was losing big money. The games might be what's needed to promote it a bit.

Or have I missed some technical issues with the venue?

Yeah .....its not London !

Birmingham City Council is running a massive project called 'Birmingham Cycle Revolution' not really off to the best of starts is it ?

imposter2.0

kingrollo wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

Why isn't Derby being used?

Its only 50 miles away from Brum, and last I heard it was losing big money. The games might be what's needed to promote it a bit.

Or have I missed some technical issues with the venue?

Yeah .....its not London !

Birmingham City Council is running a massive project called 'Birmingham Cycle Revolution' not really off to the best of starts is it ?

Derby doesn't have the required seating capacity. The stated requirement is 4000 seats - Derby has 1600.

chippyk

Imposter wrote:

kingrollo wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

Why isn't Derby being used?

Its only 50 miles away from Brum, and last I heard it was losing big money. The games might be what's needed to promote it a bit.

Or have I missed some technical issues with the venue?

Yeah .....its not London !

Birmingham City Council is running a massive project called 'Birmingham Cycle Revolution' not really off to the best of starts is it ?

Derby doesn't have the required seating capacity. The stated requirement is 4000 seats - Derby has 1600.

Please don’t let facts get in anyone’s way.

wongataa

kingrollo wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

Why isn't Derby being used?

Its only 50 miles away from Brum, and last I heard it was losing big money. The games might be what's needed to promote it a bit.

Or have I missed some technical issues with the venue?

Yeah .....its not London !

Birmingham City Council is running a massive project called 'Birmingham Cycle Revolution' not really off to the best of starts is it ?

Well, Derby is unsuitable (too small) which is why it wasn't picked and the bid for the games stated that if track cycling was included it would be in Manchester or London - the closest suitable venues. Birmingham have done exactly what was in their bid for the games.

The 'Birmingham Cycle Revolution' started before the chance to get the Commonwealth Games appeared so they are not linked in any way.

ugo.santalucia

To be honest, I would prefer money to go into infrastructure for commuters, rather than a spanky Velodrome. Taxpayers money should not be spent to support hobbies.

I cycle 8K miles every year, half of it is commuting, I have never been in a velodrome and like me the vast majority of bicycle users out there.

A Velodrome is a white elephant, which is great as HQ of the National team, but there is already one velodrome that does that. Failing that, there is another one ready to take its place and another perfectly good one in Newport too.

I don't see how a Velodrome would help raising the profile of Birmingham as a cycling friendly city.

What is badly needed is a proper segregated super highway along the A38, coupled with cycle lanes along ALL the major routes to the centre.
The existing Brompton hire scheme should get public support and should be expanded and possibly made it to work better.
With a bit more money, one could think of dedicated train coaches to New Street and Moor Street for folks with non folding bikes.
That would be a freaking revolution worth its name.

lettingthedaysgoby

ugo.santalucia wrote:

To be honest, I would prefer money to go into infrastructure for commuters, rather than a spanky Velodrome. Taxpayers money should not be spent to support hobbies.

I cycle 8K miles every year, half of it is commuting, I have never been in a velodrome and like me the vast majority of bicycle users out there.

A Velodrome is a white elephant, which is great as HQ of the National team, but there is already one velodrome that does that. Failing that, there is another one ready to take its place and another perfectly good one in Newport too.

I don't see how a Velodrome would help raising the profile of Birmingham as a cycling friendly city.

What is badly needed is a proper segregated super highway along the A38, coupled with cycle lanes along ALL the major routes to the centre.
The existing Brompton hire scheme should get public support and should be expanded and possibly made it to work better.
With a bit more money, one could think of dedicated train coaches to New Street and Moor Street for folks with non folding bikes.
That would be a freaking revolution worth its name.

Nail, head etc

svetty

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Taxpayers money should not be spent to support hobbies.

So no public swimming pools then? Or Libraries?? When do sport facilities which enhance health and encourage participation become mere hobbies?

Agree that measures to promote commuting are needed but not sure that your assertion is quite as black and white as all that.

ugo.santalucia

There is also a network of waterways which are great for cycling, but nobody thought of making them cycling friendly, eliminating barriers like steps and stairs. Incidentally, that would make them a lot more accessible to disabled too.

Think of the access to the canal via the Mailbox, a great route to Edgebaston and the University... whichever way you go, you need to get off the bike and lift it up some stairs. Then technically you are not allowed to cycle on the metal bridges that cross the canal system and of course there are no bike parking facilities at the Mailbox at all in case you want to stop for a coffee or three. It could all be made awesome with very little investment

ugo.santalucia

Svetty wrote:

So no public swimming pools then? Or Libraries?? When do sport facilities which enhance health and encourage participation become mere hobbies?
.

I promised myself I will never get involved in another row on BikeRadar, therefore I will answer this and then say no more on the subject.

In my opinion, Velodromes are elitarian facilities... they are massive buildings that host very few users at any one time, even fewer events, they are expensive to build and maintain and are not ideal to promote cycling at any level. A simple tarmac circuit is much cheaper to build, much cheaper to maintain, can be used with any bicycle by anyone without any specific training and does a better job of encouraging kids into the sport.

A more appropriate comparison to a Velodrome would be a "diving pool" rather than a "swimmimg pool".

imposter2.0

Worth pointing out that a velodrome is not going to be built in B'ham, so arguing against building one seems slightly pointless to me..

Matthewfalle

worth pointing out that Birmingham is actually very crap, so there is actually no reason why a velodrome should be built.

veronese68

I think Ugo is right, even though there are no plans to build a velodrome money spent on normal people to encourage cycling is far more important. Maybe use of the word hobbies is an over-simplification, but a velodrome is not the way to get more people cycling and improve the nations fitness.

Matthewfalle

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Svetty wrote:

So no public swimming pools then? Or Libraries?? When do sport facilities which enhance health and encourage participation become mere hobbies?
.

I promised myself I will never get involved in another row on BikeRadar, therefore I will answer this and then say no more on the subject.

In my opinion, Velodromes are elitarian facilities... they are massive buildings that host very few users at any one time, even fewer events, they are expensive to build and maintain and are not ideal to promote cycling at any level. A simple tarmac circuit is much cheaper to build, much cheaper to maintain, can be used with any bicycle by anyone without any specific training and does a better job of encouraging kids into the sport.

A more appropriate comparison to a Velodrome would be a "diving pool" rather than a "swimmimg pool".

this.

ugo is, bizarrely, hitting the nail on the head.

graememacd

There is no doubt looking at the rate of investment and construction in Birmingham (Ignore the Carillion bit for now) that it's a city on the up. Although saying that, it's a terrible city to try and move using any from of transport. Even walking is a pain at the moment with all the building sites changing walking routes through the city on a month by month basis. It's dominated by car travel (which is also a pain) and an awful place to cycle in and out of. There is new cycling 'facilities' popping up here and there but without the infrastructure to actually ride in and out of the city I feel they're going to be wasted. The amount of on street parking around the centre really doesn't help with traffic flow and could easily be used for segregated cycling infrastructure instead but I doubt Birmingham city council will ever commit to anything like that

veronese68

Ugo mentioned this upthread but between this and another thread about the dangers of cycling on the canals in Birmingham I can't help but think improving the tow paths, including better lighting and maybe CCTV would be a good idea.

ugo.santalucia

There would be a lot that could be done.

Currently, if you walk along the A38 pavement from the University going north, you get to Edgebaston ground and you can't cross the A38 to turn right... there simply isn't a pedestrian crossing at one of the major city junctions... it is just completely ridiculous that you have to wait for the lights to go red, cross your fingers and run.
The pavement itself is rutted, broken and clearly nobody has ever thought of it as a resource. Understandably, nobody uses it... It could easily be turned into something useful for both pedestrians and bicycles.

The waterways cannot carry a large volume of cyclists at any one time. Tow paths are narrow and bridges become bottlenecks. They are a great resource to move locally and ideal for those who are not in a rush and would rather see herons than cars, but they are not the solution.

Matthewfalle

graememacd wrote:

There is no doubt looking at the rate of investment and construction in Birmingham (Ignore the Carillion bit for now) that it's a city on the up. Although saying that, it's a terrible city to try and move using any from of transport. Even walking is a pain at the moment with all the building sites changing walking routes through the city on a month by month basis. It's dominated by car travel (which is also a pain) and an awful place to cycle in and out of. There is new cycling 'facilities' popping up here and there but without the infrastructure to actually ride in and out of the city I feel they're going to be wasted. The amount of on street parking around the centre really doesn't help with traffic flow and could easily be used for segregated cycling infrastructure instead but I doubt Birmingham city council will ever commit to anything like that

Allegedly it’s been on the up for the past 20 but it’s still a dump with no incentive for anyone to invest in it.

No need at all for it to have a velodrome.

kingrollo

Whatever .......for a city claiming to be implementing a 'cycle revolution' - The no show of the velo for 2018 ....and quite possibly gone for good, and the outsourcing of possibly one of more successful events of the common wealth games is a couple of own goals IMO.

Sure you can make a case that funds for the velodrome would be better spent elsewhere - but I don't see any evidence of the happening either.

I heard one tale where a female doctor was killed, that a couple of days later , cyclists were pulled over and advised to waer high viz .......you couldn't make it up..

Cycling revolution ...my arse !

imposter2.0

kingrollo wrote:

Sure you can make a case that funds for the velodrome would be better spent elsewhere - but I don't see any evidence of the happening either.

It's basic economics. Nowhere outside of London will ever need a velodrome with 4000 crowd capacity. And with velodromes already in Derby, Manchester and Newport (ie within a couple of hours drive), the sustainable economic case for another velodrome in Birmingham is practically a non-starter, especially when Derby is already struggling to make ends meet.

ugo.santalucia

At a state level, there is a distinct lack of long term vision. Rather than investing resources to prevent cardiovascular disease, diabetes and cancer, of which an active lifestyle is part, the public is led to believe that the short term solution of investing more and more in pills and therapies for diabetes, cancer and cardiovascular disease is the only solution to the problem.
The figures are out there, to show how a healthy lifestyle involving a diet rich in plant based food and physical activity could save billions... the results could be seen well within a decade, but that is still too long term...

Moral, there is no money to do very much and all these ambitious projects of a city designed around pedestrians and cyclists struggle to take off.

vinnymarsden

The thing about velodromes, since the rise of cycling popularity, their management have realised the massive potential to rinse money out of people fancying a go at track cycling.. take Manchester, you used to be able to bob along in groups on club nights and with little messing around you could have a go... not nowOh No you need to do a big boys course just to go on the track, it’s no more dangerous, it’s just easy to raise cash from wannabes, and that’s not having a pop at people for fancying a try, far from it, you should be able to just have a taster, but that doesn’t empty your bank account, so it’s a full on track course to ensure your safety... yeh right!
All the top execs at BC in Manchester drive luxury cars because the new revenue streams opened up by cycling popularity has allowed it.
I’m sure the London one is same,maybe Derby is losing money because it isn’t there as a complete profit generator, more as a community usable asset.
Ugo is spot on, Birmingham won’t build anything, why would they, the ones we have bleed us dry as it is!!