Bike geometry

Avit5

I am afeter a new bike and considering several at the moment but before i narrow down my search can any geometry experts tell me if all of the below will roughly be a fit.

Bike A B C D
Reach 383 395 405 392
Stack 632 615 630 612
Top Tube (effective) 579 586 598 585
Head Tube 220 210 214 215
(TD) (TE) (CR) (BI) - ignore this line.

Bike A is my current set up but looking for something slightly less upright but not too much !
I have very long legs 93cm for my height 186cm and all the bikes above are size 60 or 61.

pilot_pete

Avit5 wrote:

I am afeter a new bike and considering several at the moment but before i narrow down my search can any geometry experts tell me if all of the below will roughly be a fit.

Bike A B C D
Reach 383 395 405 392
Stack 632 615 630 612
Top Tube (effective) 579 586 598 585
Head Tube 220 210 214 215
(TD) (TE) (CR) (BI) - ignore this line.

Bike A is my current set up but looking for something slightly less upright but not too much !
I have very long legs 93cm for my height 186cm and all the bikes above are size 60 or 61.

If A is your current set up and you want something slightly less upright, then the slightly lower stack measurements will help with this. Remember the important measurements will include your handlebar and stem lengths and angles plus any spacers you have on the steerer currently.

Depending on your current setup you could possibly get a lower position by removing spacers, changing stem (either flipping it if it ‘rises’ from the steerer or swapping it for one with a different angle).

This article https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/your-top-tube-length-is-irrelevant-50174/ may help get the idea of handlebar stack and reach.

The frames with a lower stack to start with will allow a lower position ultimately, and you can alter stem lengths and/ or bars (reach to the hoods from the tops and drop) to keep your reach the same (if you find the same reach is still good when lower).

The frames with a much longer reach (C for example is 22mm more) so to keep the same overall reach you would need about a 20mm shorter stem, so it depends on how long your current stem is to see if this is feasible. If you are currently running a short stem (say something like an 80mm stem) then really that frame would be too big as a 60mm stem would be a bit odd on a road bike.

If you draw it out on a bit of paper it is easier to visualise the effect of each measurement and change required for stem/ spacers etc.

PP

Avit5

Thanks PP for the reply.

My current stem length is 90mm and i have one 10mm spacer on bike. It is reach that I have the biggest problem with as I need a frame with more stack and less reach which is why Bike A (current bike Trek Domane) seems to fit me. I just wanted a less focussed endurance bike and a more focused 'race' bike but i guess they are not made for my kind of fit. Will probable have to accept only a certain type of bike will suite me.
It's also a problem with finding these kind of sizes in stock anywhere to actually try.
Bike C was my preferred option - Cervelo R3 but without resorting to an even smaller stem then it looks like it is out of the equation.
Back to drawing boeard then !

N0bodyOfTheGoat

56cm https://www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/ro ... rey_373882 has 385mm reach and 591mm stack.

Mine is a 58cm, I'm 178cm tall and ~83cm cycling inseam, I could have gone for the 56cm myself (with possibly a longer stem) but I wanted a more upright position of the 388mm reach and 610mm stack.

pilot_pete

Avit5 wrote:

Thanks PP for the reply.

My current stem length is 90mm and i have one 10mm spacer on bike. It is reach that I have the biggest problem with as I need a frame with more stack and less reach which is why Bike A (current bike Trek Domane) seems to fit me. I just wanted a less focussed endurance bike and a more focused 'race' bike but i guess they are not made for my kind of fit. Will probable have to accept only a certain type of bike will suite me.
It's also a problem with finding these kind of sizes in stock anywhere to actually try.
Bike C was my preferred option - Cervelo R3 but without resorting to an even smaller stem then it looks like it is out of the equation.
Back to drawing boeard then !

I’m not sure I understand. If you want a more race orientated position (less upright) how can you want more stack? More stack means the top of the headtube is going to be relatively higher than your current setup. If you keep the same spacer and stem/ bar combo then your ultimate bar position is going to be higher than currently. Surely you are looking for a smaller stack and reach as you are currently running a shortish stem and say that you need less reach? A smaller frame would achieve this - obviously you can keep the same saddle to pedal measurement by having more exposed seatpost but you can then get a lower front end that is also shorter (which you can optimise with a suitable length stem, which may well be longer than you currently have).

Question is how much lower do you want to be at the front end? You don’t want to buy too small a frame and then need loads of spacers below your stem to bring the bars up high enough...

PP

tangerineowl

I'd have a good look at the aluminium Alan Super Corsa Ergal in standard geometry (horizontal top tube).

You'd need to contact Alan for further geometry details (to compare against your Domane) to work out the exact stack and reach of a size, but I'd say something around their size 12 would fit you very well.

re the size 12: the ETT is 580 (your Domane is 579) / seat tube angle is 73 (yours is 728) / Head tube length is 200 (yours is 220; a bit lower is what you're chasing).

The short-length horizontal top tube and long seat tube length will suit your tall inseam.


Those three bikes you listed are too long in the reach.
You want to keep the reach feeling similar. Then play around with the stack to suit what you're chasing.

Alan can do custom sizing also, but you'd have to look at the cost. The alu framesets seem to sell for a bit over a grand. Though they do have an online Outlet which lists cheaper framesets/complete builds from time to time.

Purchase a frameset and build it up with components you like.

Avit5

Surely though by going to s smaller frame size I will just need more seat post showing which will then make my drop to the bars more ? I ride a Trek size 60cm and when buying this bike I did try the 58cm bike but the seat post needed to be so high that it was bordering on the limit and also made the drop to the bars too much without an enourmous amount of spaces.
By going to the size 60 the seat post height in realtion to the bars was a lot less and much more comfortable.
I am not too unhappy with my current position and can go a bit lower on the front end but every bike i have tried that is smaller frame is an issue with the saddle to bar drop.
I just will accept that I need to ride bikes with taller head tubes and rule out the Cervelo R3. The Trek Emonda is about as close as I can get to my Domane but did fancy a change from Trek. Ideally want a Emonda type bike with another manufacturer. The endurance bikes all seem to be disc only now - Cerverlo C3 for example fits me but still alot like my Domane.
Thanks for all the replies - appreciate it.

Avit5

looking at the Domane geometry charts the reach from smallest to largets frame size is only 20mm and on the R3 the reach differs by 40mm from small to large. Need another manufacturer then with similiar small reach increases across the sizes.

pilot_pete

Avit5 wrote:

Surely though by going to s smaller frame size I will just need more seat post showing which will then make my drop to the bars more ?

Yes, I suggested it because you said in your first post you wanted to be less upright, which I read as lower bars hence less upright riding position. I further interpreted your comment in a later post saying you want a less endurance focussed frame and a more race orientated frame, and that reach is your biggest issue and you need a shorter reach as an indication that a lower stack from a smaller frame, coupled with slightly less reach (which could then be adjusted with stem length) as being the solution to your problem.

However, you say your current bike fits you, so why change? There is no point saying you can’t get lower but wanting a more race orientated setup, because a lower / flatter back is a more race orientated position! If you have a 10mm spacer on your current bike, why not just remove it, or fit a smaller one to see how you get on? That would make a slightly lower front end - hence a bit more ‘race’. If you can’t ride in that position I think you are wasting your time trying to change frames but keeping the same position.

PP

letap73

I agree with much of the above.
The Domane is an excellent bike and I cannot advise many manufactured options with the appropriate geometry you are after.
Your saddle height above the bb I am guessing is 80+ cm but your reach to your bar is actually very short in comparison. As suggested above a custom built frame is an option - but it will cost. A custom carbon frame is £2500+:

https://www.filamentbikes.com/

Avit5

letap73 wrote:

I agree with much of the above.
The Domane is an excellent bike and I cannot advise many manufactured options with the appropriate geometry you are after.
Your saddle height above the bb I am guessing is 80+ cm but your reach to your bar is actually very short in comparison. As suggested above a custom built frame is an option - but it will cost. A custom carbon frame is £2500+:

https://www.filamentbikes.com/

My saddle height from BB is 85cm - i have very long legs for my overall height.
Yes the Domane is a good bike but it does feel like the rear end moves about particualrly when spinning with a high cadence which i tend to do. I know its the rear iso speed decoupler doing its job and maybe the moving doesn't actually effect speed but it feels like wasted energy. Its difficult to describe how it feels. I have the Domane that is the fixed decoupler and not the newer version that you can adjust. A couple of other people I have spoken too also have the same feeling on a Domane when spinning rather than grinding in a bigger gear.
I want a new bike and not another Domane even with the adjustable decoupler so i will just look at others like the Bianchi Infinito CV and Trek Emonda (which has higher HT that most other 'race' bikes). I would consider the Focus Paralane if it was available in frameset only. Most of the other 'endurance' bikes seem to be disc only - Cervelo C3, Cannondale Synapse, BMC Roadmachine. I don't really want discs on my summer bike though. Custom is another option which i will look into.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Lots of the Cube Attain range have the same geo, including rim braked models. The 56 or 58 will give you similar reach to the Domane with less stack.

Avit5

NitrousOxide wrote:

Lots of the Cube Attain range have the same geo, including rim braked models. The 56 or 58 will give you similar reach to the Domane with less stack.

Thanks - hadn't look at Cube bikes.

letap73

That is a big saddle height - 85cm - you must have quite a large saddle to bar height drop - I assume above 10+ cm at least.
This is compounded by a short reach - a 90mm stem is rather small for 60+ cm bike.

If you were near somewhere like EPIC cycles then I would suggest you visit there - to see if they could fit you up to one of their bikes.
From the data you posted a custom carbon/any material would work - however it would cost you.
If it has to be carbon - then WyndyMilla, Sarto and filament bikes are the ones I can think off.

Avit5

letap73 wrote:

That is a big saddle height - 85cm - you must have quite a large saddle to bar height drop - I assume above 10+ cm at least.
This is compounded by a short reach - a 90mm stem is rather small for 60+ cm bike.

If you were near somewhere like EPIC cycles then I would suggest you visit there - to see if they could fit you up to one of their bikes.
From the data you posted a custom carbon/any material would work - however it would cost you.
If it has to be carbon - then WyndyMilla, Sarto and filament bikes are the ones I can think off.

Yes saddle to bar drop is 10cm.
My stem is actually 100mm (just measured again) but still relatively short for a 60cm frame.
Not near Epic cycles but may pay them a visit as they stock a decent range of bikes.