Carbon wheels in winter

scooby_doo_do

morning all,

just wondering if anyone rides on carbon wheels in the winter and is the braking on them significantly worse than in the summer months?
I've got a new set of Reynold assaults with cyro-blue pads on a s-works venge (newly built) and after a couple of rides and a few visits back to the shop, i'm under the conclusion/understanding that they just slow you down a bit rather than stop you and they are worse in the winter but should improve. I have read that the brakes (rear especially) on the venge are notoriously bad.
(I only have the one set of wheels, so currently looking at buying a winter set with an alu braking surface)
just wondering what your thoughts would be?
thanks

Matthewfalle

I use carbon deep rims with tubs all year round: insufferably dull Trek commuter bike has BBB £9 from Wiggle pads, N1 Swisstop yellow, crit bike Swissstop Black Prince. Single speeder runs BBB.

never had a problem with any: the yellows are stupidly expensive but nicest - most feel, stopping power - followed by BBB with Black Prince last.

imposter2.0

Winter weather is not ideal for the longevity of any rim-braked wheel. Weigh up the compromise between riding 'awesome' wheels in winter against the cost of potentially reducing their life-span.

JakeJ

I run a zipp 404 rear wheel and open the rear caliper right up so that dirt can pass through, I don't use the rear brake at all.

On the front I've got a mavic cxr ultimate 60 which has the exalith braking surface, which once matched with the mavic exalith pads is perfect.

Rain and winter grit ect. make no difference to the braking quality on these, they're great & because I paid diddly squat for them, I'm not particularly bothered if I ruin them.

Once the weather is better consistently, I'll be putting my zipp 404 front wheel back on.

ravey1981

I thought black prince were supposed to be better than yellow?? Maybe i need to change then....

trivial_poursuivant

ravey1981 wrote:

I thought black prince were supposed to be better than yellow?? Maybe i need to change then....

I prefer yellow, I think it depends on the wheel brand. Zipp still push the use of crappy cork pads on their wheels.

Matthewfalle

Imposter wrote:

Winter weather is not ideal for the longevity of any rim-braked wheel. Weigh up the compromise between riding 'awesome' wheels in winter against the cost of potentially reducing their life-span.

Or just spend 15 seconds of the minute you spend hosing down the bike at the end of the ride on the wheels.

Just because it's winter doesn't mean that I need to ride a poor person's bike.

Matthewfalle

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

ravey1981 wrote:

I thought black prince were supposed to be better than yellow?? Maybe i need to change then....

I prefer yellow, I think it depends on the wheel brand. Zipp still push the use of crappy cork pads on their wheels.

As per TP - the yellows are softer, provide more feel and stop the bike better.

Bear in mind that everything to do with brake pads is personal but I'd buy yellow again but not touch black princes again.

trivial_poursuivant

Matthewfalle wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

ravey1981 wrote:

I thought black prince were supposed to be better than yellow?? Maybe i need to change then....

I prefer yellow, I think it depends on the wheel brand. Zipp still push the use of crappy cork pads on their wheels.

As per TP - the yellows are softer, provide more feel and stop the bike better.

Bear in mind that everything to do with brake pads is personal but I'd buy yellow again but not touch black princes again.

Some people swear by Koolstop Salmon in the wet. I don’t like them. They make my wheels smell

thegreatdivide

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Zipp still push the use of crappy cork pads on their wheels.

No, they don’t.

trivial_poursuivant

thegreatdivide wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Zipp still push the use of crappy cork pads on their wheels.

No, they don’t.

Er yes they do. Their Tangente pads are just compressed cork and plastic

imposter2.0

Matthewfalle wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Winter weather is not ideal for the longevity of any rim-braked wheel. Weigh up the compromise between riding 'awesome' wheels in winter against the cost of potentially reducing their life-span.

Or just spend 15 seconds of the minute you spend hosing down the bike at the end of the ride on the wheels.

Just because it's winter doesn't mean that I need to ride a poor person's bike.

Cleaning the bike afterwards isn't really the issue, as it's usually a bit late by then. The issue is the inevitable accelerated wear in winter thanks to the mud, muck, grit and other nasties that end up covering your brake pads and brake track.

Now, if you could find a way to clean your bike as you were riding it, you could be on to something....

trivial_poursuivant

Imposter wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Winter weather is not ideal for the longevity of any rim-braked wheel. Weigh up the compromise between riding 'awesome' wheels in winter against the cost of potentially reducing their life-span.

Or just spend 15 seconds of the minute you spend hosing down the bike at the end of the ride on the wheels.

Just because it's winter doesn't mean that I need to ride a poor person's bike.

Cleaning the bike afterwards isn't really the issue, as it's usually a bit late by then. The issue is the inevitable accelerated wear in winter thanks to the mud, muck, grit and other nasties that end up covering your brake pads and brake track.

Now, if you could find a way to clean your bike as you were riding it, you could be on to something....

Ride through deep puddles?

cycleclinic

Mine wheels stop fine when it wet. Rim wear with carbon is less if an issue than with alloy rims.

How well a carbon Tim brakes is dependent on the resins sed and the pads used. Just because renoylds is a well known name does not mean they have the best brake tracks like wise just because your wheels with the recommended pads don't stop well in the wet does not mean other pads or rims and pads will be the same. Try different pads. Campagnolo red is what I use on mine. They may or may not work as well on the renoylds rims.

pilot_pete

Carbon rims and disc brakes work wonderfully in the wet in my experience...

Just sayin’....

PP

pilot_pete

And worth considering from the Reynolds Lifetime Warranty;

“this warranty does not apply to damage caused by, for example, normal wear and tear, abuse or misuse, alterations or modifications, or use with non-Reynolds equipment – e.g., use of non-Cryo-Blue brake pads for rim brake wheels.”

I think most manufacturers state such a clause and I have no idea how they would decide if you had or you hadn’t unless you tell them, but worth bearing in mind.

PP

Matthewfalle

Pilot Pete wrote:

Carbon rims and disc brakes work wonderfully in the wet in my experience...

Just sayin’....

PP

They weigh a ton and look bloody ugly though.

trivial_poursuivant

Matthewfalle wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

Carbon rims and disc brakes work wonderfully in the wet in my experience...

Just sayin’....

PP

They weigh a ton and look bloody ugly though.

But even with these fantastic discs and ugly wheels, he won’t ride it in the winter. Which kind of defeats the whole bloody purpose of them.

pilot_pete

But I will on my winter bike... :roll:

PP

pilot_pete

Matthewfalle wrote:

They weigh a ton and look bloody ugly though.

yeah it’s always a trade off worth doing isn’t it? Because the determining factor is not braking performance, its looks and weight of course... because the OP is obviously completely content with his braking performance. :roll: At least he looks good though...

PP

cycleclinic

Even I say that about my carbon wheels but I would never refuse a warranty because of it. If the braking is crap then it worth trying different pads. Just test properly and see if overheating is an issue. Also depending on how hard the resin is brake track wear may or may not be an issue.

If carbon disc brake wheels are heavy then your buying the wrong ones. They can be built light. Going to do a 1250g set for my 29er shortly

pilot_pete

thecycleclinic wrote:

If carbon disc brake wheels are heavy then your buying the wrong ones. They can be built light. Going to do a 1250g set for my 29er shortly

Indeed, some people are very stuck in their ways and just can’t accept that things develop. ‘Need’ is a separate issue, looks a personal thing, but they can’t let facts get in the way of an entrenched argument. :roll:

Referring back to the reference regarding my recent build over in ‘Your Road Bikes’, I am lucky enough to be able to build a bike for specific conditions where aero will trump weight every time, so even if those wheels were ‘heavy’ it would not be detrimental to the riding I plan to do.

I went for hand builts because I could get exactly what I wanted and have the back up of a trusted builder, using quality components, who will look after my wheels and provide that backup service. He has built four different sets of wheels for me so far and is more than happy to give them the once over, checking tensions and trueness FOC every so often. That’s why I go back to him when I want something new. His advice, honesty and skill is worth every penny.

All depends on perspective, available budget and what your priorities are in my opinion.

PP

Matthewfalle

Pilot Pete wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

They weigh a ton and look bloody ugly though.

yeah it’s always a trade off worth doing isn’t it? Because the determining factor is not braking performance, its looks and weight of course... because the OP is obviously completely content with his braking performance. :roll: At least he looks good though...

PP

He hasn’t tried different pads yet though and quite a few people are more than happy with their braking performance.

We all don’t want ugly heavy wheels and ugly heavy calipers.

pilot_pete

Matthewfalle wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

They weigh a ton and look bloody ugly though.

yeah it’s always a trade off worth doing isn’t it? Because the determining factor is not braking performance, its looks and weight of course... because the OP is obviously completely content with his braking performance. :roll: At least he looks good though...

PP

He hasn’t tried different pads yet though and quite a few people are more than happy with their braking performance.

We all don’t want ugly heavy wheels and ugly heavy calipers.

Well don’t buy them then. :roll: Buy wheels that meet your criteria, but don’t try to generalise that everyone buying disc wheels is buying heavy and ugly wheels just because you think they are... :roll:

PP

Matthewfalle

Pilot Pete wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

They weigh a ton and look bloody ugly though.

yeah it’s always a trade off worth doing isn’t it? Because the determining factor is not braking performance, its looks and weight of course... because the OP is obviously completely content with his braking performance. :roll: At least he looks good though...

PP

He hasn’t tried different pads yet though and quite a few people are more than happy with their braking performance.

We all don’t want ugly heavy wheels and ugly heavy calipers.

Well don’t buy them then. :roll: Buy wheels that meet your criteria, but don’t try to generalise that everyone buying disc wheels is buying heavy and ugly wheels just because you think they are... :roll:

PP

I’m not going to buy them.

Why would I want to buy some ugly heavy wheels and then add weight by bolting on some calipers?

And sorry, but they are ugly. And heavy.

pilot_pete

In your opinion. You are now just boring...

PP

Matthewfalle

Maybe, but at least my wheels aren't heavy and ugly. They are light and beautiful.

thegreatdivide

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Zipp still push the use of crappy cork pads on their wheels.

No, they don’t.

Er yes they do. Their Tangente pads are just compressed cork and plastic

They still punt out the old Tangente High Performance Cork pad for folk living in the dark ages, but they were superseded years ago by the Platinum Pro Evo which have come with every set of new carbon Zipps since about 2013.

mallorcajeff

I ride reynolds carbons all the winter and ice and never have a problem. Only thing i find with my reynolds is they dont stop in the wet at all, they will slow you down a bit but you really have to anchor up to stop. Ive become used to them but when i go back to my dura ace 9100 with ally tracks i always smile at how good they are. Once these carbons are dead i probably wont buy another pair as i get the benefit living in the uk. When i moved back to sapin i will get some zipps for sunny weather

Matthewfalle

used my 60/80 combo with taped on tubs yesterday in the rain and rain like i do every day.

tubs didn't fall off.
no punctures
braked fine
no wear

no problem

imposter2.0

Matthewfalle wrote:

braked fine
no wear

Which is technically impossible...