Shock, horror!! No more STRAVA segments!!

MiddleRinger

Okay, so that was possibly a bit of an overkill topic heading - don't put your bikes on eBay just yet as there are still Strava segments - but it seems that in light of the recent security issues, the folks at Strava have temporarily (?) removed the ability for users to create new segments.

They are currently ... "reviewing features that were originally designed for athlete motivation and inspiration to ensure they cannot be compromised by people with bad intent."

trekvet

What is "bad intent"?
I have made qite a few Run segments only to find some on main roads headed by those driving home with watch still running. Is this "bad intent"?

sloppyschleckonds

If only they'd done that in 2012 when there were only hill segments

StillGoing

"Bad intent" is probably that terrorists that have picked up that people on the bases in Afghanistan etc, have been creating segments on their running courses around the base. The terrorists can then pick these segments up and plot the base and areas where troops will frequently be ready for a mortar attack.

Matthewfalle

Why would people put their bikes on eBay?

trivial_poursuivant

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

If only they'd done that in 2012 when there were only hill segments

Amen to that. Too many stupid segments that are on downhill or short flat roads. I always thought a segment should have to either cover a minimum reasonable distance , have a minimum elevation increase or a technical element to it to be allowed to stand.

Not all, but many segments encourage antisocial or just plain dangerous riding.

StillGoing

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

If only they'd done that in 2012 when there were only hill segments

Amen to that. Too many stupid segments that are on downhill or short flat roads. I always thought a segment should have to either cover a minimum reasonable distance , have a minimum elevation increase or a technical element to it to be allowed to stand.

Not all, but many segments encourage antisocial or just plain dangerous riding.

One near me that actually goes across a busy dual carriageway roundabout. Madness.

trivial_poursuivant

philthy3 wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

If only they'd done that in 2012 when there were only hill segments

Amen to that. Too many stupid segments that are on downhill or short flat roads. I always thought a segment should have to either cover a minimum reasonable distance , have a minimum elevation increase or a technical element to it to be allowed to stand.

Not all, but many segments encourage antisocial or just plain dangerous riding.

One near me that actually goes across a busy dual carriageway roundabout. Madness.

And there will be lunatics who risk life and limb to try and better it. That one really should be flagged as dangerous though. But I see people’s feeds who have gone out on a particular day , when the wind is in the right direction with the only aim being to grab segment times. Why not just go for a bike ride and forget the times of non descript bits of tarmac?. They mean nothing .

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Segments are supposed to be at least 0.5 miles long to make their times reasonably comparable between recording devices, yet you can still create shorter segments than that.

Then you have Segment Explorer showing you "fake" categorised hill segments, with ridiculous GPS data suggesting the base of a hill was something like -125 feet below sea level, while other segments are shown despite being under an average gradient of 3% because of their length.

Then you get odd segments that climb a hill, but the segment finishes after the summit... Wibble!

The segment database is a mess, especially for hill fans riding in unfamiliar territory, it would probably be better to wipe the database and start afresh with far better quality control.

But this recent situation of no new segments can be created is all down to segments in and around military bases. Shouldn't users of these bases be getting thorough training on what things to publish on public record? Strava has had privacy settings that have improved over the last year or so, but it's down to users to choose them.

supermurph09

I think what Strava should have is more data cleansing of segments as there are sometimes ridiculous amounts for one climb. In fairness though, it’s hard not to blame the user here so maybe just make it stricter when attempting to create segments that are so similar. If it means that much to you just make them private.

cycleclinic

I have stopped caring about segments a while back. Maybe all segments should be deleted and a new stricter segment criteria should be introduced then we can all recreate segments to the new rules/ A bit of AI is needed like segments should stop a certain distance from a junction, no go over roundabouts or traffic lighted junctions e.t.c. Not sure how much data there is through google maps so dont know if this is viable.

cougie

Pretty sure all the dodgy segments on my rides have been flagged. I am not that bothered any more. Strava is more about recording my activities rather than getting segments.

svetty

A lot of self-appointed guardians of cycling morality here. You can just ignore them if you wish guys!

joe2008

It's Strava's heat maps that are the problem.

I'm pretty sure the world doesn't need any more segments, but you can create one now if you wish...

ugo.santalucia

My feeling is that 3/4 of the current segments should go. In a typical recreational ride I pass through several hundred segments and that makes no sense at all. There are typically in excess of 2 segments per Km in most UK areas.

Obviously this will never happen, as it would be horrendously time consuming and labour intensive, even in the presence of meaningful criteria of what constitutes a segment.

With that in mind, can anyone please have a go at this?

https://www.strava.com/segments/15719987

N0bodyOfTheGoat

ugo.santalucia wrote:

With that in mind, can anyone please have a go at this?

https://www.strava.com/segments/15719987

I may be able to oblige later in the year if my crazy idea happens, more than likely getting "2nd Overall" if I'm lucky and nobody else tries it beforehand.;)

trivial_poursuivant

ugo.santalucia wrote:

My feeling is that 3/4 of the current segments should go. In a typical recreational ride I pass through several hundred segments and that makes no sense at all. There are typically in excess of 2 segments per Km in most UK areas.

Obviously this will never happen, as it would be horrendously time consuming and labour intensive, even in the presence of meaningful criteria of what constitutes a segment.

With that in mind, can anyone please have a go at this?

https://www.strava.com/segments/15719987

Easiest thing would be to just delete them all. Then with a stricter set of conditions allow people to recreate them over time. Peoples times on leaderboards would still remain on segments they have done once they have been recreated. Maybe the odd one will change hands if people create them ‘tactically’ by a second or so but they can always go out and attempt them again.

cougie

ugo.santalucia wrote:

My feeling is that 3/4 of the current segments should go. In a typical recreational ride I pass through several hundred segments and that makes no sense at all. There are typically in excess of 2 segments per Km in most UK areas.

Obviously this will never happen, as it would be horrendously time consuming and labour intensive, even in the presence of meaningful criteria of what constitutes a segment.

With that in mind, can anyone please have a go at this?

https://www.strava.com/segments/15719987

Oof. I've done some of that route yonks ago. Before Strava. For some reason I've not been back since.......

Dorset_Boy

The database certainly needs cleaning up. There are far, far too many duplicate segments.

Moonbiker

I say leave them all not fair to delete peoples KOM's

Matthewfalle

Moonbiker wrote:

I say leave them all not fair to delete peoples KOM's

Why?

trivial_poursuivant

Moonbiker wrote:

I say leave them all not fair to delete peoples KOM's

Its not like people paid for them. It’s a free app. The fact there are so many petty ones devalues the ones which are a actual achievement.

In the beginning it was good that they were a way of encouraging people out to ride, but I feel it’s swung the other way. Some people base rides around beating times instead of just getting out and riding. From the guy who waits until the wind is in the right direction to take on a specific segment to the twunt in the chain gang who has to sprint to clock s time instead of just being part of the ride. They can bring out the worst in people. A cull of many of the nonsense ones would be beneficial imo

Moonbiker

Some people work really hard to get a KOM and could have had it for a few yrs why take the recorded history away that records that achievement.

Its Interesting to look back at the history of some of the local TT segment leaderboards they go back to 2011 some poeple who don't even cycle anymore.

Deleting segs won't acheive anything as in a few yrs it would just be back to the same situation unless they stop people creating them.

You can just filter KOM by yr anyway.

trivial_poursuivant

Moonbiker wrote:

Some people work really hard to get a KOM and could have had it for a few yrs why take the recorded history away that records that achievement.

Its Interesting to look back at the history of some of the local TT segment leaderboards they go back to 2011 some poeple who don't even cycle anymore.

Deleting segs won't acheive anything as in a few yrs it would just be back to the same situation unless they stop people creating them.

You can just filter KOM by yr anyway.

Any KOM worth having can be recreated. Climbs or segments of a reasonable enough length. But when you get a KOM for a 200 meter sprint. Er no. That’s not worth keeping. Or a stretch of downhill road which can only be bettered if the wind is right behind you and suitably strong enough. What’s the point of all them bullsh1t KOMs? Some people worked hard. So what? They still have the history of the ride as a whole. I doubt they will be reminiscing with the grandchildren about the time they grabbed that KOM out in the middle of nowhere where no one else actually cares.

So the only reason anyone would really be against it is to protect their own pointless benign KOMs

Frank Wilson

cougie wrote:

Pretty sure all the dodgy segments on my rides have been flagged. I am not that bothered any more. Strava is more about recording my activities rather than getting segments.

To be honest flagging them was the worst possible thing to do as all the ones from Burton to Chester have been recreated with different names adding yet more segments, the new ones and the flagged ones sit side by side on the results.

chippyk

ugo.santalucia wrote:

My feeling is that 3/4 of the current segments should go. In a typical recreational ride I pass through several hundred segments and that makes no sense at all. There are typically in excess of 2 segments per Km in most UK areas.

Obviously this will never happen, as it would be horrendously time consuming and labour intensive, even in the presence of meaningful criteria of what constitutes a segment.

With that in mind, can anyone please have a go at this?

https://www.strava.com/segments/15719987

The climb up from Bala is a joy, the descent to Lake Vyrnwy is great fun and the ride around it in autumn is beautiful. The southern climb, the least said the better in my opinion.

sloppyschleckonds

Moonbiker wrote:

Some people work really hard to get a KOM

It's pathetic

JakeJ

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Moonbiker wrote:

Some people work really hard to get a KOM

It's pathetic

I assume you don't have any then?

haydenm

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

If only they'd done that in 2012 when there were only hill segments

Amen to that. Too many stupid segments that are on downhill or short flat roads. I always thought a segment should have to either cover a minimum reasonable distance , have a minimum elevation increase or a technical element to it to be allowed to stand.

Not all, but many segments encourage antisocial or just plain dangerous riding.

They'd need to be able to seperate off road segments from road segments, always seemed like an oversight to me anyway. The fact downhill segments can be made in the woods has probably contributed to the massive rise in 'enduro' mountain biking over the last few years and it's certainly a good thing over all.

Also, if they were to reset all the segments it would be an interesting idea to set a date in a month or two when all the current segments were set in stone and locked, then automatically hidden unless you want them for comparison. They could then create an all new layer for new segments with stricter criteria

w00dster

How would they stop people creating anti social segments later on? If a segment is dangerous this can be flagged up.
Personally I don't think they should be wiped and started over again.
I have a small number of segments that I do like to go for. I'll never get the KoM on them, but I am in generally in the top 10%, its good to try and work my way up. I completely agree that there are too many variables to make it an accurate reflection, but that's fine - its just meant to be a bit of fun and a way to motivate.
I also don't get the hate for descents and why KoM should just be on hills. I know the name says it should, but surely that's not meant to be literal? A 200 metre sprint should also be fine, I'll often sprint to the village sign or the coffee shop or whatever. They're not mandatory. On a ride I did yesterday there is an 8 mile descent, going down 1200 feet. Yep its very much weather related, but its also good fun to see how I did and compare against much better fitter riders. I don't see the harm in it what so ever. I often look at the rides these better riders have done and then use those to help me with creating new routes.
Yesterday's downhill segment - fast and great fun. (Not fun or fast yesterday as was so cold and windy - but fun in better weather - my teeth still hurt from the cold!)

https://www.strava.com/activities/13916 ... 4545545980

Are people seriously saying that these shouldn't downhill sections shouldn't be allowed and only climbs?

trivial_poursuivant

w00dster wrote:

How would they stop people creating anti social segments later on? If a segment is dangerous this can be flagged up.
Personally I don't think they should be wiped and started over again.
I have a small number of segments that I do like to go for. I'll never get the KoM on them, but I am in generally in the top 10%, its good to try and work my way up. I completely agree that there are too many variables to make it an accurate reflection, but that's fine - its just meant to be a bit of fun and a way to motivate.
I also don't get the hate for descents and why KoM should just be on hills. I know the name says it should, but surely that's not meant to be literal? A 200 metre sprint should also be fine, I'll often sprint to the village sign or the coffee shop or whatever. They're not mandatory. On a ride I did yesterday there is an 8 mile descent, going down 1200 feet. Yep its very much weather related, but its also good fun to see how I did and compare against much better fitter riders. I don't see the harm in it what so ever. I often look at the rides these better riders have done and then use those to help me with creating new routes.
Yesterday's downhill segment - fast and great fun. (Not fun or fast yesterday as was so cold and windy - but fun in better weather - my teeth still hurt from the cold!)

https://www.strava.com/activities/13916 ... 4545545980

Are people seriously saying that these shouldn't downhill sections shouldn't be allowed and only climbs?

It’s King Of the Mountain. There is a certain level of fitness, effort to get an uphill segment or a long flat road ie TT or technical segment but going down hill fast is easy with the wind behind you. All they show is you did it on a particularly favourable day. There is no skill in that. And if they are particularly technical then maybe they are too dangerous to be doing on public roads. That’s not to say all are, far from it , but for the greater good so to speak a mass cull of niff naff segments clogging up the rides and stick to ones that actually mean something. It will annoy a lot of people. I have a fair few KOMs on petty little stretches of road but I don’t care about them. The ones I’ve really had to push hard for even if I’m only top 10 I’m more bothered about. People don’t own these things, they are just bits of data. No one is really going to miss them. No one is going to suddenly give up cycling and throw out all their expensive Rapha and Castelli kit all because of a loss of some unimportant kudos on non descript bit of tarmac.

I’d like to think of it as cutting back a garden full of undergrowth. When you’re done, you’ll be happier when the flowers can grow without being choked by unwanted weeds.