Endurance disc bike distances - your thoughts.

bristolpete

So, in light of the chat on here regarding disc brakes and riders thinking about the swap, it seems that the endurance road market has more choices and options regarding disk, but what do people think constitutes an endurance ride ?

Canvassed some opinions today and certainly the press driving most endurance bikes about 'all day in the saddle' & so on slightly misplaced ? is 2 hours plus a 'long ride' to some.

My longest ride last year was 100 miles on my Dogma which was fine. 6 hours solo. Question is would it be faster / easier / smoother on an endurance disc bike. Likewise would a 2 hour blast on an endurance bike be slower ?

Is it all just marketing and are disk brakes about the terrain you ride ? Norfolk pan flat. Devon not so.

w00dster

I regularly ride 70/80 mile solo rides along with 60 mile club rides every Sunday. Most definitely more comfortable on my Domane with 32mm tyres than my Emonda or even my old CAAD. As the weather improves my rides will get longer, tends to be 6 to 7 hours.
It's not necessarily about being all day in the saddle, it's that every ride is more comfortable regardless of distance. As I've gotten older I'm happy to admit that I enjoy more "heads up" riding nowadays rather than merely just riding as hard and fast as I can. The Domane allows me to enjoy my riding much more, I don't know if it's the geometry, the tyres, the isospeed decouplers, but it's that bit more relaxing.
My CAAD would feel every bump, it rattled and creaked. The Domane is planted, boring as some would describe it. Me, I'm 45, ex Rugby League player with back and neck issues. I do race (Cat 3), but happy with the Domane as my winter bike. In the summer I'll be back on an Emonda, won't be as comfy but this is the race bike.
Also not sure how much my speed differs between bikes. Must be some speed / effort penalty, but Strava doesn't show this as my rides are pretty similar.
The additional bonus with my Domane is the confidence it gives descending, this weekend I'm training in Snowdonia, I wouldn't fancy the descents on rim brakes, lots of people do, but it feels much better on wide tyres and disc brakes.

bristolpete

w00dster wrote:

I regularly ride 70/80 mile solo rides along with 60 mile club rides every Sunday. Most definitely more comfortable on my Domane with 32mm tyres than my Emonda or even my old CAAD. As the weather improves my rides will get longer, tends to be 6 to 7 hours.
It's not necessarily about being all day in the saddle, it's that every ride is more comfortable regardless of distance. As I've gotten older I'm happy to admit that I enjoy more "heads up" riding nowadays rather than merely just riding as hard and fast as I can. The Domane allows me to enjoy my riding much more, I don't know if it's the geometry, the tyres, the isospeed decouplers, but it's that bit more relaxing.
My CAAD would feel every bump, it rattled and creaked. The Domane is planted, boring as some would describe it. Me, I'm 45, ex Rugby League player with back and neck issues. I do race (Cat 3), but happy with the Domane as my winter bike. In the summer I'll be back on an Emonda, won't be as comfy but this is the race bike.
Also not sure how much my speed differs between bikes. Must be some speed / effort penalty, but Strava doesn't show this as my rides are pretty similar.
The additional bonus with my Domane is the confidence it gives descending, this weekend I'm training in Snowdonia, I wouldn't fancy the descents on rim brakes, lots of people do, but it feels much better on wide tyres and disc brakes.

Nice reply and thanks. Exactly as I see it. I am 47 next time round, not getting younger and enjoy my stiff bikes, but these are things to consider. On my F8 I nailed 43 miles solo sub 2.10 last year which was nice as far from flat here and the question I ask myself is could I do it on an endurance bike akin to Domane / Defy / Synapse disc ? I suspect yes.

w00dster

Speed wise I wouldn't worry.
Here's a ride from last Friday, short lunch ride, https://www.strava.com/activities/1376197772
My Fastest average speed on that route is 21.2mph on the Emonda. But generally I was around that same speed, give or take.
Easy course, gentle uphill at the start followed by rolling terrain, nice downhill then more gradual uphill towards the end. That's my regular lunchtime ride. That was done on the Domane.
And here's a good ride last year while I was still test riding the Domane, https://www.strava.com/activities/1041066856
That will have been stock, 32mm rubbish tyres and 9kgs.

I don't record all rides and when I do I'm not good at changing what bike I used so it's hard to say for sure how this compares to my other bikes, but generally it's similar. Obviously weather / route dependent.
The Domane initially felt slow and harder work, but once position was dialled in much better.

Hope that doesn't look like I'm trying to do some dick waving as it's just trying to show how endurance bikes are not full on anchors. 20 years younger and I have to admit I'd be on a CAAD or similar. Also if I could only have one bike it probably wouldn't be endurance geometry.

cougie

I don't see how disc brakes would make any difference to the speed.

As to endurance bikes there are too many factors to take into account. If your current Bike isn't beating you up - and only you know this - then why change ?

w00dster

Cougie, I think the disc brake reference is merely because endurance frames tend to be disc frames with room for wider tyres. Nothing to do with the disc brakes slowing you down, just the style of bike.
Completely agree with your point re existing bike not beating you up.

veronese68

I think my longest ride was about 11 hours, including some very good feed stops, and I was feeling pretty broken at the end of it. But probably because that was my longest ride by a substantial margin. That was riding my Pro6 which is not exactly an endurance bike. I think I would have been feeling pretty broken whatever I had ridden, maybe a bit less so on a more upright frame but I think I was on 32mm tyres so it wasn't the bumps.
Regarding disc brakes and terrain, I'd say it's more about the weather. Riding in all weathers I'd rather have discs. Maybe endurance bikes are more likely to be ridden in bad weather so are more likely to have discs. Add in that people probably want slightly larger tyres and discs open up more possibilities in that respect and they make even more sense.

bristolpete

Thanks all. I think it was more about seeing what others see as an 'endurance ride'.

I think as 'hard core' road riders, we see anything other than sub 2 hours as a decent shift, but all relative. 3/5 hours a decent loop 60+ mile loop, 5/6 hours Bristol to Devon type stuff. Not an audax rider or out all day 10/1/12 hour rider. Or is the industry wrongly assuming that sportive bike riders are 'slower' or they prefer to bimble about ? Not sure. We all know people who think 10 minutes is endurance LOL.

cycleclinic

I use my look 795 for 12hr and 24hr tt's and it is very comfortable. This is definitely not an endurance bike. That niche is pointless. Race bikes can be very comfortable and a race position should be comfortable too.

chippyk

I think my longest rides have been on my Ridley Noah. With tubs pumped up hard and carbon rims it’s harsh but I’ve done over six hours without stopping on it on an IM bike leg. But if I’m riding a similar distance with my mate, a bit slower and stopping for lunch, it’s my Synapse every day. The Ridley feels faster, no doubt, but it can be uncomfortable after 100 or more miles if I haven’t ridden it for a while. The brakes, Ridley rim, Synapse disc, make no difference to the speed for me.

daniel_b

The Synapse is a fast and responsive frame, and has the ability to still get the saddle to bars drop fairly substantial IF you have a long inseam relative to your height.
Stick a Save seatpost on for even more comfort.

I enjoy riding my Synapses hugely, a different feel to the Scott, which is more racey, but no less enjoyable, and I doubt there's any real difference in speed, other than those caused by weight.

zefs

I have a Giant Defy Advanced and have tried 25 and 28c tires which measure 28 and 30mm on my wheels.
Basically I think the 28c are slower but more comfortable. They are heavier (noticeably) and when used with less air (to get the comfort benefit) you can feel them dragging. The claim "they are faster" is just marketing in my opinion, and they are probably faster only on bumpy roads/terrain. If you are riding on simple tarmac then they are slower than the 25's that's what I noticed. You can have a racing tire and 28's for longer comfier rides though as an option on such bikes which is a plus.

hypster

thecycleclinic wrote:

I use my look 795 for 12hr and 24hr tt's and it is very comfortable. This is definitely not an endurance bike. That niche is pointless. Race bikes can be very comfortable and a race position should be comfortable too.

I would agree with this. I bought a GT Grade carbon and think the geometry is a little too upright. Is it more comfortble to be sitting up battling against a headwind or a bit lower down and more aero? I would say my Scott CR1 is a more comfortable bike over a distance than the GT.

I think it all depends more on your fitness and conditioning than the bike you are riding whether you are comfortable riding for 6 hours plus.

daniel_b

hypster wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

I use my look 795 for 12hr and 24hr tt's and it is very comfortable. This is definitely not an endurance bike. That niche is pointless. Race bikes can be very comfortable and a race position should be comfortable too.

I would agree with this. I bought a GT Grade carbon and think the geometry is a little too upright. Is it more comfortble to be sitting up battling against a headwind or a bit lower down and more aero? I would say my Scott CR1 is a more comfortable bike over a distance than the GT.

I think it all depends more on your fitness and conditioning than the bike you are riding whether you are comfortable riding for 6 hours plus.

Agreed, an endurance bike does not guarantee comfort - think your fitness, flexibility, and proportions brings a lot into play - ie if you have long legs\short torso or vice versa.

w00dster

Endurance doesn't just mean that you are sitting more upright.
The endurance bikes tend to do things that reduce road buzz. For example my Trek has front and rear isospeed and 32mm tyres run at a relatively low pressure.
My CAAD didn't have anything to reduce road buzz and as much as I loved that bike, it's not comparative to the Domane in comfort terms. My current race bike takes 28mm tyres but isn't really designed as such. I've done multiple long days on both bikes and the Domane is the preference each time. That's not to say my race bike is uncomfortable, it's absolutely not, but it notices every road imperfection, where as the Domane almost glides over it. So my body is relatively beaten up after a long day in the saddle, nothing extreme but more so than the Domane.
As i said earlier though, if I was 20 years younger or only had room for 1 bike, then it wouldn't be an endurance type frame.

I also think comfort is probably the wrong word to describe it. Not sure how best to describe it, but for older guys like me who may be less flexible than they used to be, the endurance frame does make sense. I'm more than happy to sit on my race bike and do a 2 hour road race with no issues what so ever. However if I have the choice of doing a solo 100 miles I would pick the Domane.
In terms of smiles, the CAAD is the bike that gave me the most smiles per mile. The Domane gives the least, but as I've gotten older I have to think about my injuries a bit more. But that old CAAD was 23mm tyres and 100psi. Not comparable at all.

w00dster

Agree with Daniel to an extent, flexibility Is important, but not sure how fitness matters? I'm reasonably fit and always have been, i still race, I still do multi day 100 mile off road bike packing on my Domane, this is in either North Wales (Snowdonia) or the Highlands of Scotland.
I couldn't do that type of riding on my old CAAD, well I could, but it wouldn't be quite as comfortable as my Domane. There's not many race bikes that can take a 35mm Schwalbe G One.

hypster

w00dster wrote:

In terms of smiles, the CAAD is the bike that gave me the most smiles per mile. The Domane gives the least, but as I've gotten older I have to think about my injuries a bit more. But that old CAAD was 23mm tyres and 100psi. Not comparable at all.

The geometry lines between bikes are a lot more blurred these days though. A lot of race bikes are now coming with clearance for 28mm tyres (and disc brakes too). And of course "endurance" means different things to different manufacturers. I think anyone contemplating buying a new bike really needs to check the geometry to see that it's not one extreme or the other to what they require.

burnthesheep

I tend to agree that endurance implies time/distance instead of comfort. It's just that endurance sounds more "sporty" than saying "comfort".

A person that would ride an endurance bike for a long ride wouldn't necessarily want to swap over to an aero race bike for a short ride. That makes no sense. You still may want the comfort for the shorter ride too!

bristolpete

burnthesheep wrote:

I tend to agree that endurance implies time/distance instead of comfort. It's just that endurance sounds more "sporty" than saying "comfort".

A person that would ride an endurance bike for a long ride wouldn't necessarily want to swap over to an aero race bike for a short ride. That makes no sense. You still may want the comfort for the shorter ride too!

Exactly. You can ride any bike quickly, slowly or for any period of time. What we can conclude is that marketing is key here. And tyre pressure LOL.

w00dster

Agreed. Tyre pressure and width.
I'm up in snowdon this weekend, only brought 25mm tyres with me and it's already 0 degrees in the valley. Probably going to be a fair bit of ice up in the mountains.
Now wishing I'd just brought my fat bike to play on the trails!
All this reminiscing about my old CAAD has made me want another. Time for beers and get the wife drunk until she agrees i need a new one! I might even skip riding this weekend to get extra brownie points, she wont know its because i dont fancy descending on the ice!

bristolpete

w00dster wrote:

Agreed. Tyre pressure and width.
I'm up in snowdon this weekend, only brought 25mm tyres with me and it's already 0 degrees in the valley. Probably going to be a fair bit of ice up in the mountains.
Now wishing I'd just brought my fat bike to play on the trails!
All this reminiscing about my old CAAD has made me want another. Time for beers and get the wife drunk until she agrees i need a new one! I might even skip riding this weekend to get extra brownie points, she wont know its because i dont fancy descending on the ice!

Nice give her a foot massage and you can have any bike you like :shock: