Driver pulls out on me, doesn't like me tapping his bonnet in protest.

Sewinman

It is true there are some nutters out there. I once saw a car with a family in it and the driver casually beeped his horn at a white van. The white van man got out of the car and started shouting 'go on, do that again....do that again you XXXX!". What the driver of the car couldn't see, but I could, was that the white van man had a hammer tucked behind his arm and was holding it loosely behind his back.

I find it impossible to be consistently 'zen', my zen levels go up and down with my mood.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Sewinman wrote:

It is true there are some nutters out there. I once saw a car with a family in it and the driver casually beeped his horn at a white van. The white van man got out of the car and started shouting 'go on, do that again....do that again you XXXX!". What the driver of the car couldn't see, but I could, was that the white van man had a hammer tucked behind his arm and was holding it loosely behind his back.

At which point you grabbed your mobile out of a pocket, took a photo/video clip of white van man and his van and handed over said photo/video to police later that day ASAP? :shock:

Sewinman

NitrousOxide wrote:

Sewinman wrote:

It is true there are some nutters out there. I once saw a car with a family in it and the driver casually beeped his horn at a white van. The white van man got out of the car and started shouting 'go on, do that again....do that again you XXXX!". What the driver of the car couldn't see, but I could, was that the white van man had a hammer tucked behind his arm and was holding it loosely behind his back.

At which point you grabbed your mobile out of a pocket, took a photo/video clip of white van man and his van and handed over said photo/video to police later that day ASAP? :shock:

I probably would have got a hammer to the head if I had done that.

kingstongraham

kingdav wrote:

Thanks for all the supportive comments. I think the lesson for me to take away is that turning a near miss into physical contact escalates things and that's not really the direction to take it so I'll find other ways of attracting attention.

I've learnt this too - it doesn't help, and the driver doesn't take it as a learning opportunity.

I got chased through the streets of Kingston when I touched the side of a car in Richmond Park. He absolutely could have killed someone with his driving once he had become enraged.

veronese68

KingstonGraham wrote:

I got chased through the streets of Kingston when I touched the side of a car in Richmond Park. He absolutely could have killed someone with his driving once he had become enraged.

I had this for gesticulating at someone that pulled out of a line of traffic to stop me passing on a motorbike just before joining the one way system. He then drove at me on the one way, luckily I saw him coming and managed to avoid it. He had another couple of attempts and as in your case could have caused a major accident. A friend of mine saw some of it and called me when I got home to check I'd made it home as he thought the guy was clearly trying to kill me. Since that occasion the same guy has pulled alongside me when I was on my bicycle doing the same speed as the car in front of me and squeezed me into the parked cars. I was too busy braking hard to gesticulate until after he passed. I've since seen the car a few times, distinctive number plate, and have now worked out who he is. It's a bloke in his 60s that drinks in the same pub I do. I've not said anything but if he comes near me again I will be having words.
All I will say is be very careful around Kingston of a blue Audi with 666 on the number plate.

rick_chasey

We all have stories.

I got clipped by a car whilst on a painted bike lane, and when I called him a c*nt he chased after me in his car, cornered me with it, pushed me off my bike and kicked me on the ground until someone dragged him away.

JakeJ

Veronese68 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

I got chased through the streets of Kingston when I touched the side of a car in Richmond Park. He absolutely could have killed someone with his driving once he had become enraged.

I had this for gesticulating at someone that pulled out of a line of traffic to stop me passing on a motorbike just before joining the one way system. He then drove at me on the one way, luckily I saw him coming and managed to avoid it. He had another couple of attempts and as in your case could have caused a major accident. A friend of mine saw some of it and called me when I got home to check I'd made it home as he thought the guy was clearly trying to kill me. Since that occasion the same guy has pulled alongside me when I was on my bicycle doing the same speed as the car in front of me and squeezed me into the parked cars. I was too busy braking hard to gesticulate until after he passed. I've since seen the car a few times, distinctive number plate, and have now worked out who he is. It's a bloke in his 60s that drinks in the same pub I do. I've not said anything but if he comes near me again I will be having words.
All I will say is be very careful around Kingston of a blue Audi with 666 on the number plate.

Follow him home one night, then poop through his letterbox.

ricky_h-2

I swore and gesticulated at a nutter who nearly took me out at speed in Clapham and he slammed on the brakes and reversed to do the whole "what did you say" passive aggressive thing, I rode on. The same bloke appeared in the local rag a few months later after going down for a murder charge. There's some bad eggs out there and they're never going to see reason. Take it easy folks

kingstongraham

JakeJ wrote:

Follow him home one night, then poop through his letterbox.

That would be impressive control.

wolfsbane2k

Ricky h wrote:

I swore and gesticulated at a nutter who nearly took me out at speed in Clapham and he slammed on the brakes and reversed to do the whole "what did you say" passive aggressive thing, I rode on. The same bloke appeared in the local rag a few months later after going down for a murder charge. There's some bad eggs out there and they're never going to see reason. Take it easy folks

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

defever

How are you feeling about this now kingdav?

Thanks for sharing your recent encounter with a driver. Not a nice encounter, but good on you for leaving the situation and I'm glad to hear you sustained anything physical.

The driver surely sounds unlike from the "ordinary" road users. Going bezerk after his car was touched (I also agree that there's something about triggering someone's rage by touching his/her property. Also, a little "tap" from the outside can sound much worse inside a car), actually stopping to engage in a conversation with you (well, shout at you), and willing to completely obstruct the traffic behind, suggesting to move on to a side road and even chasing after you on foot when you made decision to leave the situation. Definitely an unusual scenario (or is this common in Croydon / near London?). When I hear / read encounters such as yours (and other similar encounters that everyone posted subsequently, also thanks for sharing), I think "what would I have done, how would I have reacted?"

Sometimes I can let things go ("close passes" or poor overtake, clearly selfish / impatient driving), but other times I feel I have to intercept and let the road user know of his/her potentially dangerous behaviour (like swaying and can visibly confirm the use of mobile phone, cruising into a roundabout / junction when I'm in primary, REALLY close call and I catch up the car at next light, EVEN a pedestrian /cyclist with no lights jumping out in front of me to cross the road between vehicles, etc.). In these situations when I feel I must intercept, and whilst I talk to my conscience whether to engage or not with the road user, the following things rush into my head :

1. impression of the vehicle / driver / cyclist / pedestrian (I admit it is very judgemental, but they are influencing factors of gauging the attitude / character of the person)
2. whether I have a quick getaway route if I feel endangered
3. whether there are pedestrians, other road users, a shop, etc. for witness / seeking help if needed
4. We are all "Mr / Mrs Right"; I am. So are others.
5. I'm sensible, everyone else is an idiot. So am I.
6. I belief (and hope) that humanity isn't lost yet and the driver in question could be my significant other (my wife, friend, mom, etc) and people are generally good souls.

I think a lot, yes. I constantly think about point A - C and even anticipate (but not instigate). When I get to my point D, I've usually calmed down a bit and just let it go or simply stay behind the vehicle and carry on with my way. I only ever made contact with other road user three times in the last 1,500miles (nearly 13months?)

Also, since having obtained British Cycling's RIDE membership (with commute liability and legal support), I feel like my mind is put to rest a much more than before. Strange, but I feel I'm protected and I feel less of a need to engage with other road users. Maybe its the sense of belonging to a party and I'm not alone in this daily battle.

As many said, we all know being zen is the way forward to disperse the tension, but as few said, easier said than done?

Ironically, an aggro cyclist I used to know once told me, "if a c*** driver gets to you, then you lost it. You lost and the driver won. And you become the c***." The only thing I respect and agree with him!

Apology for the keyboard diarrhoea.

Here's an inspiring image:

pblakeney

^^^^ That chain tension is wrong. ^^^^
And the tyres are under inflated. But otherwise, it is wrong.

cjcp

Veronese68 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

I got chased through the streets of Kingston when I touched the side of a car in Richmond Park. He absolutely could have killed someone with his driving once he had become enraged.

I had this for gesticulating at someone that pulled out of a line of traffic to stop me passing on a motorbike just before joining the one way system. He then drove at me on the one way, luckily I saw him coming and managed to avoid it. He had another couple of attempts and as in your case could have caused a major accident. A friend of mine saw some of it and called me when I got home to check I'd made it home as he thought the guy was clearly trying to kill me. Since that occasion the same guy has pulled alongside me when I was on my bicycle doing the same speed as the car in front of me and squeezed me into the parked cars. I was too busy braking hard to gesticulate until after he passed. I've since seen the car a few times, distinctive number plate, and have now worked out who he is. It's a bloke in his 60s that drinks in the same pub I do. I've not said anything but if he comes near me again I will be having words.
All I will say is be very careful around Kingston of a blue Audi with 666 on the number plate.

Eyes peeled for that one.

The chap I had the second incident with lives about a two minutes walk from the same pub.

kingdav

defever wrote:

How are you feeling about this now kingdav?

Much better thanks, I didn't ride to work the following because I was working from home anyway but went out for club ride in the evening. On Thursday I rode in different clothes on another bike and on Friday I went a completely different route. Ironically, I drive half way so I can change my starting point quite radically without much difficulty. I've not thought about it much until today when this palm slap incident came to my attention again:
https://fromthecraggyhills.wordpress.co ... /rule-163/

I feel quite positive now, remaining calm and keeping steadfastly on the moral high ground is the way to go rather than escalating things.

elbowloh

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2018/jan/29/why-cyclists-should-keep-their-cool-in-the-face-of-dangerous-driving

kingdav

elbowloh wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2018/jan/29/why-cyclists-should-keep-their-cool-in-the-face-of-dangerous-driving

Thanks for this, it was helpful. I read all 200 comments so I think I understand a number of the viewpoints now.

defever

What’s the consensus among the readers’ comments, kingdav? I gave up quite early when they were commenting something like “bad driving does not right bad cycling” or similar.

And what would you do next time you’re in a similar position?

I think I’ll stay calm and keep believing in karma / people a generally nice.

Happy cycling!

Dog Breath

kingdav wrote:

I've not thought about it much until today when this palm slap incident came to my attention again:
https://fromthecraggyhills.wordpress.co ... /rule-163/

I feel quite positive now, remaining calm and keeping steadfastly on the moral high ground is the way to go rather than escalating things.

I remember seeing that video a while ago, but reading the blog was interesting. I was shocked to read that the defendant had been in court on 30 previous occasions, but had the audacity to shout that the cyclist 'had ruined his life'. At what point in their lives do people like this start to take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming everyone else.

kingdav

From what I remember now, there was no real consensus. The ongoing battle seems to come from those with one of three main viewpoints...
1. All road users need to be more considerate then, everything would be alright.
2. Cyclists jumping red lights is not threatening lives so the being more considerate bit should apply mostly to motor vehicle pilots.
3. It's to do with bad infrastructure, cyclists should play tiddly-winks instead until we have a separated network of cycle roads.

I am a "bit" more chilled out now, a mini driver pulled out on me the other night. After a while, I ended up along side him on the cycle lane, him on the road, a way along the road, car full of kids, him on the phone. I shook my head...
He winds his window down all "what'choo lookin' at" etc. so I say " you were on the phone you pratt". He then gets properly apoplectic with rage "no need to call me a pratt" he shouts. I tell him I'll call him what ever I ****ing like if he's putting my life in danger. He says "oh no you won't" and then starts ranting about me swearing in front of his kids, that I deserve to be knocked off and he hopes it happens soon, he plans to facilitate. I made a final comment that he's not setting a great example and settle into primary behind him. After brake-testing me twice he gives up.

This time I felt calmer about it, although it wasn't an ideal encounter. I guess I'm asking for it, but karma and everything... I slipped on the ice this morning so he got his wish.

veronese68

kingdav wrote:

... but karma and everything... I slipped on the ice this morning so he got his wish.

No, you did nothing wrong, karma would have been him being run over by some twunt driving a car whilst on the phone.

kingdav

I was pretty unimpressed by him hiding behind his kids as if me swearing in front of his is worse than him taking chances with my 3 boys losing their dad.

I think that's the nub of this whole thing and quite interesting psychologically.
- Driver take a chance with someone's life
- Threatened person reacts excitedlty
- Chastised driver wants (even if subconsciously) to divert any attention from their fault and find someone else to blame so reacts themselves with at least equal force to the reaction

fenix

Blimey Kingdav - you're getting your years worth of incidents in quickly. Have you got a long holiday planned or something ?

Hoping for a serene week for you next week !

Jimny14

Quite a few years ago when I was a young cycle commuter in Bristol I had a similar scary experience which taught me a few things about myself and how vulnerable you can be on a bike. I was cycling along on my usual route on a designated cycle lane on a main road when a range rover (black as if it makes a difference) pulled out of a side street cutting me up. I slammed on my brakes and as he cleared the lane in to slowly moving traffic I "remonstrated with him verbally" making my presence known, I may have used some slightly vulgar language and suggested a trip to spec savers. Due to traffic lights not being in my favour I ended up at the Red lights only 3 or 4 cars in front of said range rover looking at quite a hill in front of me. Needless to say he caught up to me swiftly (thanks to my mtb bso which cost me 20 quid) and had a go at me verbally through his now open window. When I made a suggestion about his parentage and called him some other choice phrases he sharply swerved in my direction trying to cut me off and force me on to what was a rather high raised kerb which I couldn't mount (was a line of bus stops with intentionally high kerbs to allow disabled access) at this point I took the split second decision to punch out at his car and as I was along side his wing mirror that took my fist. It turns out that old range rover wing mirrors are less well secured than some people may think, either that or I was so scared and had so much adrenaline going on that I channeled my inner superman. Either way his wing mirror came off and was left dangling on its control wires.
This clearly displeased our car driver as for the next few minutes I ended up in what was basically a chase where he was trying to catch up with me. Luckily the heavy traffic and the proximity of the cycle track was enough for me to escape without further "discussion". I had little sleep that night also and I reevaluated my reactions to inconsiderate / rude / blind drivers also.

BobMcbob

Yeah never touch someone's car... I've done it twice on occasions when it was instinctive to stop myself being crushed, and on both was threatened with the usual tirades.

On the latter instance the the chap got out of his van and kicked my bike breaking the mudguard and cutting my leg, I got the police involved and after badgering them to do something they came around the next day and took a statement. To their credit they threw the book at him (careless driving, criminal damage, assault) He was arrested the next day and kept in the cells all day and he lied denying everything...so as I didn't have it on camera, he ended up walking away.

Turns out he was a local scumbag well known to the police and they were more than happy to try to pin as much on him as possible. I now have two cameras at all times and won't touch someones vehicle unless it puts me in mortal danger - you just don't know if the guy isn't a psychopath/Axe murdering/Neanderthal

cougie

It amazes me that you still get some Rambo cyclists advocating punching cars if they come too close.
I kind of think that if they meet their car driving twin then that's where it'll get really nasty.
Some car drivers can be idiots but it doesn't help us to escalate the situation. Not with one party being pretty much invulnerable...

kingdav

I was alone, but on the way to a group ride last weekend,and an old guy in a golf gave me a very close pass. He was unlucky enough to get stopped at the next lights so I pulled up next to him and tapped (very lightly) on the window and asked him as politely as possible to consider giving me a bit more room next time. He went off on one a bit, but not the way you might expect. Turns out he felt the pass was a bit a close himself and as an ex-cycle postie he had a lot of sympathy. He repeatedly thanked me for using the language I did and being calm about it. So I think this thread has done some good for me at least.

defever

Well done kingdav, we've all learnt something from this thread.

Very similar to your latest encounter with a driver, I too had a very close pass and gave a gentle feedback when I caught up at the next light.

The scenario: one of the main single carriage roads going out of town, around 7:00AM (it was still dark back then), parked car on the nearside, only one car space to pass both direction. A hatchback with a young driver squeezed through the pinch before the next oncoming car approached. I felt the drag wind of his car (I sort of anticipated as I could hear him revving from behind). Caught up with him at the next light. I approached from the nearside, looked into the passenger window; he was already looking at me (probably knew I was catching up and was going to talk to him). I gestured to knock on the window, but he rolled down the window.

I said lightly, “next time, can I get a little bit more space when you pass, please?” gesturing with my fingers “a little” with my thumb and forefinger.

He said, “a’ight, ya sorry mate. Sorry.”. Still appeared to be half a sleep with a croaky voice.

I then said “thanks very much” with thumbs up. Light turns green, I go ahead (few cars in from of him and not moving much). He catches up, and does the textbook overtaking by crossing the central line. Perfect. Subsequent cars followed his example. Even better.

I think he knew he was too close and accepted his misjudgement. Gentle words go long way I think., even to the drivers behind (though I can’t claim that my action directly impacted their subsequent overtaking manoeuvre). Had I expressed my point in different manner (i.e. aggressively; finger up in the air, shouting, banging on the window, etc.), the situation would have definitely been different I reckon.

Having said that, would I have approached this way had I not anticipated the close pass (and made me jump without forewarning), a heavy tinted Range Rover with daft private plate, a bus, a lorry, an aggressive beep prior to close pass, a person on his/her phone, etc.? I don't know if I am emotionally strong enough to keep the same composure every time…

I don’t know if anyone ever heard of “Stop the Douchebag (Stop Xam)” movement in Russia (group of youths physically stopping selfish drivers who drive on the pavement to jump traffic jams. Oh they also used to stick a massive sticker on their windscreen which is hilariously hard to get it off!); but as the founder of the movement said, the majority will be polite and accept their wrongdoings. It’s the very small minority who just won’t accept their fault and kick up unnecessary fuss / aggression / drama (which subsequently get uploaded on YouTube for entertainment).

So true.

On_What

I had something similar a few years ago after a dangerous overtake and throwing my arm in the air. The guy who got out was a real lump. I was very shaken by it. I think part of being a cyclist is to learn that sometimes it isn't worth escalating things, something I try and do always on the road. Although I didn't manage it when the bus driver pulled out on me in the icy conditions on Tuesday.

shamrock134

I finally bought myself a Fly12. Looking forward to smugly uploading videos of dodgy driving to the Met. If Royal Mail delivered it on time I could have captured at least two red light jumping cars!

Hoping it will also prevent me escalating situations because I'll be incriminating myself!