Changing to Ultegra - will this work?

grahamcp

Hi,

I'm looking to change the groupset on my 2009 BMC Pro Machine from SRAM Red 10 speed (also 2009) to Ultegra 6800 11 speed. Before I pull the trigger I just wanted to check with you lot that I am ordering the right stuff and haven't missed anything important!

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... prod110818 (should hopefully be able to get the BC discount on top).

My bike uses a band on front mech so I know I'll need to buy either an adaptor, or a new mech.

Bottom bracket is (I believe) standard english so no trouble there I don't think.

It sounds like for some reason the groupset does not come with cable outers (and maybe brake inners) - so I'll need to order these separately. Official 6800 cable sets seem to be out of stock everywhere - can I just order anything that says it's ultegra or DA compatible? Is it worth paying a few quid extra for polymer coated ones? (not sure how much difference it would make).

My wheels (Ksyrium Elites) are less than a couple of years old and I'm pretty much certain they are 11 speed compatible.

I'd probably go for a 52-36 / 11-25 ratios. I guess that would be fine with the supplied short cage mech. Would it be able to handle say a 28 tooth sprocket if I head off to the mountains?

That's everything I have thought of! Appreciate any guidance or confirmation I am ordering the right kit.

Thankyou!

trivial_poursuivant

The only issue I can think of with a BMC is possibly the bottom bracket. Is it threaded or press fit?

Edit. Just read properly !!!

As for cables if you are missing any bits I’d just go to a bike shop and buy them loose. I usually get cables and outers from LBS . Most shops will just cut a decent length of outer cable from a drum and a few extra cable ends cost pennies

svetty

Rear mech will take a 28 OK. You should be fine with the chain length varying between the 25 and a 28 if you get the length right but it is slightly chain-stay and hanger dependent.

Matthewfalle

As above for the advice re fitting but why do you want to change? Red is so much better in all aspects.

I run Ultegra 11 on a couple of bikes but Red 10 on N1 and it’s so much nicer - hood shape, weight, action, looks.....

I think you’ll regret it dude, honestly do.

milemuncher1

Matthewfalle wrote:

As above for the advice re fitting but why do you want to change? Red is so much better in all aspects.

I run Ultegra 11 on a couple of bikes but Red 10 on N1 and it’s so much nicer - hood shape, weight, action, looks.....

I think you’ll regret it dude, honestly do.

I have to agree.

Also, be very careful, if you’re going 11 speed, on those Mavic freehubs. The 10 speed cassette needs a spacer before the cassette, the 11 speed cassette won’t need the spacer, your big sprocket will be closer to the spokes, so be very sure that your hanger is dead straight. I went from 10 to eleven speed on one of my bikes last year, the hanger was very slightly bent, and I very nearly ended up with the mech going through the spokes, on a shakedown Ride. I noticed the ‘spokey dokey death ping’ in time fortunately, and a slight clockwise turn of the L limit screw, and roadside fiddle with the indexing screw was enough to get me home, until I could sort it properly.

Ben6899

Another vote here to stick with the Red. I run it on my Condor and it's the bee's knees - prefer it over the Dura Ace on my Starley.

svetty

A brand new Ultegra gruppo vs 8/9 year old Red with goodness knows how many miles on it. Not sure that it's clear-cut as to which is 'better'. The ultegra brakes are likely to be better (albeit slightly heavier), the mechs will be new and with less play in all the moving parts (and no gunge in the pivots), the sprockets and chainrings and jockey wheels will be new not worn, the BB will be new, ditto the cables, shifters will again be new not worn.
Not saying Ultegra is better than Red but unless the Red has been lightly used I'd go for new personally. If you could stretch to Ultegra R8000 the choice is clearer......

daniel_b

Deffo be able to get BC Discount on that - one of the best prices I have seen for a fair while.
Don't forget to go through Topcashback or similar for a few more percent as well.

Personally, I went for Jagwire outers and cables for mysetup (Also Ultegra 6800) and had no issues with it, plus you can colour code - very important to me :-)

I also went 52\36 and like it a lot - still run, and want 50\34 on the winter bike though.
Pretty sure I have 11-28 with a short cage on my bike.
Big fan of Ultegra 6800 - although have never tried Dura Ace, but can't see me ever needing\wanting anything beyond Ultegra.

You have all the tools to do it yourself?

Matthewfalle

Gunge can be removed (zero pounds), cables changed (£20 for SRAM inners from Ribble, normal brake cables and outers all round), new b/b £15, only major cost will be chainrings but if you go TA or similar you're still saving several hundred pounds and having a much better groupset.

Brakes will be massively improved just by changing pads (ooh - £15/20 if ali rims?) and as a pro level Tour/Giro/etc winning brake set in the first place they ain't shoddy. And they are lighter and look better.

Jockey wheels - £30 for some whizzy BBB ceramic ones from Merlin, however the choice is yours.

Nice KMC chain - £20. Cassette - make your choice. I'd actually probably go Ultegra or whatever the SRAM equivalent is as D/A or Red are ridiculously, stupidly expensive and I can't justify that amount of money on anything.

Even if the OP is intent on changing, I'd go Force over Ultegra.

Stick with Red dude- all the above will probably cost the same as one Ultegra shifter. Doing the work will be fun, educational and a chance to drink beer and eat pork scratchings afterwards with a self satisfied glow of a job well done.

You also won't have people going "oh - you took Red off to put that one? Why?" incessantly.

Matthewfalle

Ben6899 wrote:

Another vote here to stick with the Red. I run it on my Condor and it's the bee's knees - prefer it over the Dura Ace on my Starley.

This entirely - I have D/A on two bikes and although it works really nice its not as special as Red. Riding my Red equipped bike just makes me smile.

If I crashed and smashed up the Red I'd be utterly gutted. Do the same to D/A and all I'd do is order some more and not be worried about it.

Ben6899

Matthewfalle wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Another vote here to stick with the Red. I run it on my Condor and it's the bee's knees - prefer it over the Dura Ace on my Starley.

This entirely - I have D/A on two bikes and although it works really nice its not as special as Red. Riding my Red equipped bike just makes me smile.

If I crashed and smashed up the Red I'd be utterly gutted. Do the same to D/A and all I'd do is order some more and not be worried about it.

But, OP, it's your bike!

Matthewfalle

Ben6899 wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Another vote here to stick with the Red. I run it on my Condor and it's the bee's knees - prefer it over the Dura Ace on my Starley.

This entirely - I have D/A on two bikes and although it works really nice its not as special as Red. Riding my Red equipped bike just makes me smile.

If I crashed and smashed up the Red I'd be utterly gutted. Do the same to D/A and all I'd do is order some more and not be worried about it.

But, OP, it's your bike!

No - its ours now

Matthewfalle

Sorry - you have one of these utterly lovely things and you want to put Ultegra on it?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12763890


Sacrilege! Red it is. And lets hear no more of this silly talk.

trivial_poursuivant

Matthewfalle wrote:

Sorry - you have one of these utterly lovely things and you want to put Ultegra on it?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12763890


Sacrilege! Red it is. And lets hear no more of this silly talk.

9 year old Sram Red is still 9 years old. I’d rather upgrade

Matthewfalle

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Sorry - you have one of these utterly lovely things and you want to put Ultegra on it?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12763890


Sacrilege! Red it is. And lets hear no more of this silly talk.

9 year old Sram Red is still 9 years old. I’d rather upgrade

Say again last - comms breaking up. All I heard was some gobbledegook.

trivial_poursuivant

Matthewfalle wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Sorry - you have one of these utterly lovely things and you want to put Ultegra on it?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12763890


Sacrilege! Red it is. And lets hear no more of this silly talk.

9 year old Sram Red is still 9 years old. I’d rather upgrade

Say again last - comms breaking up. All I heard was some gobbledegook.

Maybe cos you have your fingers in your ears going la la la

timothyw

Isn't there a halfway house, where he buys an 11 speed cassette and 11 speed sram red shifters?

Isn't everything else basically compatible?

kingdav

I'm in the red team


I bought some used 10sp red to replace the shimano on my favourite bike and I love it. I did freshen it up with new tacx jockeywheels, new hoods, new cassette, new chain and new chainset so all the chain contact points were new.

Matthewfalle

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Sorry - you have one of these utterly lovely things and you want to put Ultegra on it?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12763890


Sacrilege! Red it is. And lets hear no more of this silly talk.

9 year old Sram Red is still 9 years old. I’d rather upgrade

Say again last - comms breaking up. All I heard was some gobbledegook.

Maybe cos you have your fingers in your ears going la la la

thats is maybe, possibly, undoutedly true.

sorry - what was that? A cup of tea dear?

grahamcp

Thanks everyone, enjoyed reading the replies and appreciate the opinions :-) To be fair while it is 9 year old kit which is reasonably well used, it has lasted well and most of it (chain/cassette aside) isn't in urgent need of replacement. I suppose it was a combination of small things that got me thinking about replacing the whole lot - needing to sort the drivetrain (I would like to move up from the compact that is on it now), BB must surely be on it's way out soon, consistency of having 11 speed shimano on all my bikes, tweaking a few things like crank length so they match my other bikes, having read good reviews of newer ultegra and being able to get it at a good price currently.

I have looked a few times for replacement Sram chainsets (I would need GXP I believe) but the few options I found online were upwards of £250-300 alone, over half the cost of the entire ultegra groupset! (maybe I'm not looking in the right places). I think going 11 speed Sram would also be expensive - shifters and rear mech would come to a good few hundred quid alone I would expect.

I do like the look of the Red - it matches the bike as I have the version with the red top/head tubes and fork, but I also don't think ultegra looks too bad really.

kingdav

upgrade from compact you say...
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2266297/

Not mine! I've been umming and ahhing about buying this

Matthewfalle

You don't need to go SRAM crank to match the b/b - pick up a lush FSA or Fulcrum crankset in the deals. If fulcrum then just get a b/b for £15 and fit that.

It performs better than Ultegra, looks better, is lighter and cooler. Ultegra is a Ford Mondeo- bit bland and instantly forgettable, Red is Alfa 159: looks really lovely, quality stuff, one for the people who know what good cool kit is.. Super Record is that Ferrari from a Ferris Bueller, but that's another story.

Maybot and Farage ride Ultegra. Say no more.

It's also a nice change to ride something that isn't Ultegra 11 speed.

I'd refresh it and spend the rest on a well good riding trip with nice meals, wine and girls. Sorted fish, see.

grahamcp

kingdav wrote:

upgrade from compact you say...
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2266297/

Not mine! I've been umming and ahhing about buying this

Good find, definitely worth thinking about!

grahamcp

Grahamcp wrote:

kingdav wrote:

upgrade from compact you say...
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2266297/

Not mine! I've been umming and ahhing about buying this

Good find, definitely worth thinking about!

So it's payday tomrorow and if it is still available I think I will buy that chainset... do you guys think the outer chainring looks in good nick? the chainset looks very clean overall and the inner ring looks brand new, I was just wondering that some of the outer teeth looked a bit blunt. Probably me worrying over nothing but thought I'd gauge opinion before I spend the cash.

I'm assuming that my existing derailleurs will be compatible with full 53/39. Might also take the opportunity to order a new BB (£26 odd on wiggle) as well as new cassette and chain.

Cheers peeps!

Matthewfalle

Grahamcp wrote:

Grahamcp wrote:

kingdav wrote:

upgrade from compact you say...
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2266297/

Not mine! I've been umming and ahhing about buying this

Good find, definitely worth thinking about!

So it's payday tomrorow and if it is still available I think I will buy that chainset... do you guys think the outer chainring looks in good nick? the chainset looks very clean overall and the inner ring looks brand new, I was just wondering that some of the outer teeth looked a bit blunt. Probably me worrying over nothing but thought I'd gauge opinion before I spend the cash.

I'm assuming that my existing derailleurs will be compatible with full 53/39. Might also take the opportunity to order a new BB (£26 odd on wiggle) as well as new cassette and chain.

Cheers peeps!

They will work but you’ll need to raise the front mech to clear the chainrings - loosen cable, raise mech, readjust cable, jobs a fish, see.