What's the best high-end pure race frameset right now?

neeb
neeb Posts: 4,473
edited January 2018 in Road buying advice
Eveyone else keeps posting these "what bike/frame/wheels should I buy" posts so I thought I'd excercise my own right to bore you.. :wink:

Not that I'm actually likely to buy a frame right now, but if I was going to..

I'm talking about an off-the-peg, high-end, pure road carbon frameset for rim brakes. Please don't muddy the waters with the disc/rim debate or endurance/gravel stuff. Aero frames allowed as long as they are decent all-rounders.

Top of my curremt lust-list is the new Tarmac S-Works (in metallic green) and the Bianchi XR4 (in celeste). But the BMC SLR01 and the Cannondale supersix evo hi-mod are supposed to be very, very good too. I also find myself oddly attracted to the Merida Reacto Team-E.

Comments

  • lincolndave
    lincolndave Posts: 9,441
    Top of my list would either be Colnago C60, there’s just something special about Colnago,s ,
    the other being Bianchi xr4 , countervail works very well and the aero design is cock on according to all of the reports.
    But with all high end frames , there’s nothing to separate one manufacturer from another, just personal preference
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,830
    The new Look Huez looks really classy IMO.
    http://www.cyclingweekly.com/editors-ch ... uez-361937
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,429
    MrB123 wrote:
    The new Look Huez looks really classy IMO.
    http://www.cyclingweekly.com/editors-ch ... uez-361937
    Top end racers couldn't care less for appearances as long as the performance is right. Just saying.
    Most answers will be along the lines of "mine", or "the one I'd like" without any substantiation.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Your list is probably about right, but probably add in the Canyon CF SLX and the Trek Emonda
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • Bianchi XR4 or a Cipollini NK1K for me.

    But then the Trek Madone 9.9 looks awesome and the S-Works Tarmac will always be up there cos it’s riders win so many things.
  • 3T Strada coz rim brakes are on their way out

    </controversial>
  • naavt
    naavt Posts: 226
    Cipollini NK1K

    Nonetheless, a BikeRadar reviewer wrote that Tifosi SS26 could do 90% of the job at a fraction of NK1K price
  • arlowood
    arlowood Posts: 2,561
    Well, as a guide you might look towards the Pro Tour Teams and what they are riding. The link below gives you a good idea of how wide the range is in manufacturers among the pro peleton for the 2018 season.

    http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/produ ... ide-152997

    However that doesn't really help as you can probably scan the results of the grand tours and other classics events and see a fairly wide range of winners on bikes from different manufacturers. Essentially it's down to the rider rather than the bike he's riding at the top end of the professional racing circuit.

    If you could be bothered to do the stats, it might be interesting to look at the team placings in all the grand tours to see who came top overall as that could iron out individual differences and may point to you one frame/manufacturer having an edge over another.

    At the end of the day however, there is probably little difference at the really high end of the frame market and you are best just to pick something you like the look of because you will ride it more and get better as you do.
  • milemuncher1
    milemuncher1 Posts: 1,472
    Frameset only? It’s the Trek Domane SLR. or the Spesh Tarmac SL6 for my money, out of the 2 the Trek would get my hard earned over the Spesh.
  • naavt wrote:
    Cipollini NK1K

    Nonetheless, a BikeRadar reviewer wrote that Tifosi SS26 could do 90% of the job at a fraction of NK1K price

    Shame that every Tifosi colour scheme is offensive to the eyes.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    naavt wrote:
    Cipollini NK1K

    Nonetheless, a BikeRadar reviewer wrote that Tifosi SS26 could do 90% of the job at a fraction of NK1K price

    The Spirit/Tifosi team had a lot of wins on the SS26 last year - which kind of proves the point. The best 'high-end' frameset is usually the one powered by the best legs/heart/lungs...
  • naavt
    naavt Posts: 226
    naavt wrote:
    Cipollini NK1K

    Nonetheless, a BikeRadar reviewer wrote that Tifosi SS26 could do 90% of the job at a fraction of NK1K price

    Shame that every Tifosi colour scheme is offensive to the eyes.

    I’m committed to build my next bike around the 2018 Auriga frameset. As you, the only thing to put me off is the green color and awkward black stickers.

    I was planning on painting the frameset but put the idea aside after a couple of quotes for a paint job.

    If I decide to go this route I’ll post some pictures of the final build.

    The original SS26 in Black/Orange looks cool to me though.
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    Yes of course hardly anyone is going to win anything because of the frame they're riding..

    Still, frames feel different to ride and some are better than others. Some seem to aquire a reputation based on a lot of different peope with different agendas reporting good experiences with them, and after a point it crediblly starts to look like more than just marketing and the number of positive reviews that have been paid for in the magazines and on the websites.

    If like me you always build up your own bikes from framesets and transfer the wheels and components across you know that different frames do have different characters.

    The Look Huez indeed looks interesting. The Cipo NK1K looks like it's more one for the big units and sprinters than scrawny wee guys like me.. ;-) Colnago C60 - never heard a bad word about it but all of the compliments seem to be along the lines of "superbly well-rounded", "perfectly balanced handling", "oozes refinement", etc, rather than "blows your socks off".. So like the Cipolini it's probably a polariser?
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    naavt wrote:

    I’m committed to build my next bike around the 2018 Auriga frameset. As you, the only thing to put me off is the green color and awkward black stickers.
    Does it only come in that lurid yellow/green colour? I love green bikes, but being curently in the final stages of a cold I can confirm that they've definitely nailed snot green with that one.. ;-)
  • neeb wrote:
    naavt wrote:

    I’m committed to build my next bike around the 2018 Auriga frameset. As you, the only thing to put me off is the green color and awkward black stickers.
    Does it only come in that lurid yellow/green colour? I love green bikes, but being curently in the final stages of a cold I can confirm that they've definitely nailed snot green with that one.. ;-)

    Looking online it seem like the alternative colour way is a baby blue which is no better. Chalk/cheese options with no middle ground
  • If I had the need...or cash for an upgrade right now, Tarmac no question. Basso Diamante SV would be close too...
  • naavt
    naavt Posts: 226
    neeb wrote:
    naavt wrote:

    I’m committed to build my next bike around the 2018 Auriga frameset. As you, the only thing to put me off is the green color and awkward black stickers.
    Does it only come in that lurid yellow/green colour? I love green bikes, but being curently in the final stages of a cold I can confirm that they've definitely nailed snot green with that one.. ;-)

    Been told that it is way better looking at it “live” than at photos. Let’s see...

    Looking online it seem like the alternative colour way is a baby blue which is no better. Chalk/cheese options with no middle ground

    Nope. That’s the 2017 frame. The new one is all new and only green
  • naavt wrote:
    neeb wrote:
    naavt wrote:

    I’m committed to build my next bike around the 2018 Auriga frameset. As you, the only thing to put me off is the green color and awkward black stickers.
    Does it only come in that lurid yellow/green colour? I love green bikes, but being curently in the final stages of a cold I can confirm that they've definitely nailed snot green with that one.. ;-)

    Been told that it is way better looking at it “live” than at photos. Let’s see...

    Looking online it seem like the alternative colour way is a baby blue which is no better. Chalk/cheese options with no middle ground

    Nope. That’s the 2017 frame. The new one is all new and only green

    So they removed the sober choice.
  • naavt
    naavt Posts: 226

    So they removed the sober choice.

    Yes. That was my own thought as well, but if the bike comes as good as all others they’ve been launching... the hell with the color.

    We are talking racing frames here but don’t forget that Tifosi also launched one hell of a climbers bike a couple of months ago. The lightest bike of the kind (Mons), until the day. Around 4,6 kg if I’m not mistaken
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Wasn't there a thread that had German bike tests in ?
    Giant came out top for stiffness followed by the CAAD.

    But as has been said it's the rider not the bike.
  • naavt wrote:

    So they removed the sober choice.

    Yes. That was my own thought as well, but if the bike comes as good as all others they’ve been launching... the hell with the color.

    We are talking racing frames here but don’t forget that Tifosi also launched one hell of a climbers bike a couple of months ago. The lightest bike of the kind (Mons), until the day. Around 4,6 kg if I’m not mistaken

    The thing you have to appreciate with these super light bikes that weigh next to nothing , to do so they either have to use a higher proportion of high grade carbon fibres which make the frame extremely difficult to live with. Even the best frames have various grades of fibre used to keep them compliant and not harsh. The other way is to use less of it in certain areas which can make them as stiff as a wet noodle. Fuji SL!! So just making a bike very very light is not really anything other than a pissing contest since they are pretty useless at anything other than climbing. And unless you live at the base of Mont Ventoux and Your only route is to the top and back down they are not great bikes to ride from day to day
  • naavt
    naavt Posts: 226
    naavt wrote:

    So they removed the sober choice.

    Yes. That was my own thought as well, but if the bike comes as good as all others they’ve been launching... the hell with the color.

    We are talking racing frames here but don’t forget that Tifosi also launched one hell of a climbers bike a couple of months ago. The lightest bike of the kind (Mons), until the day. Around 4,6 kg if I’m not mistaken

    The thing you have to appreciate with these super light bikes that weigh next to nothing , to do so they either have to use a higher proportion of high grade carbon fibres which make the frame extremely difficult to live with. Even the best frames have various grades of fibre used to keep them compliant and not harsh. The other way is to use less of it in certain areas which can make them as stiff as a wet noodle. Fuji SL!! So just making a bike very very light is not really anything other than a pissing contest since they are pretty useless at anything other than climbing. And unless you live at the base of Mont Ventoux and Your only route is to the top and back down they are not great bikes to ride from day to day

    There certainly are light bikes that can do it all with a forgiving ride for what they are, and since we are talking racing frames, Focus Izalco Max and Scott Foil comes to mind.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,107
    A pure race frame - you'd want something aero, rim brakes - super light is unnecessary as you'd be under the weight limit with top end kit on it and discs aren't really any advantage in a race.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • naavt
    naavt Posts: 226
    A pure race frame - you'd want something aero, rim brakes - super light is unnecessary as you'd be under the weight limit with top end kit on it and discs aren't really any advantage in a race.

    Scott foil is a truncated design with Rim brake option. The question of weight has nothing to do with the OP question but rather an example out of the box when talking about Tifosi frames.