Opinions on Sufferfest?

rock_bus

Hi all
With the continued cold and wet weather I’m going to have to spend some time on the turbo if I want to actually use my bike.

I was going to take up Zwift but missed the deadline for the cheaper price. Also not particularly inspired by graphics or idea of being dropped by a virtual group!

Sufferfest seems like a good alternative,can challenge myself and monitor progress. Also like the idea of video where I can pretend to be competing in top races.

Would be interested in people’s views and also I’m presuming the basic equipment will suffice ie basic turbo and Bluetooth cadence and speed sensors?

imposter2.0

All you need are the videos. There is an RPE number on screen which you can use to target your effort level.

stevie63

I've been using Sufferfest since the beginning of November. I really like it. I did trainerroad in the past and found the whole looking at a bargraph thing a bit uninspiring. I did try zwift but I liked the idea of finding out your rider type using the 4DP Full Frontal test. You can use a basic trainer and sensors to give you virtual power so that will be fine (just check compatibility with your sensors on the site to check that they will work for you)

cougie

Sufferfest are good but I'd not want to batter myself every session. Do they do plans now ?

I like trainerroad and their plans. Varied and keep up the interest.

stevie63

cougie wrote:

Sufferfest are good but I'd not want to batter myself every session. Do they do plans now ?

I like trainerroad and their plans. Varied and keep up the interest.

Yeah they do have plans now which work on your weaknesses as identified by the test. A typical week for me will have 2-3 harder sessions along with 2-3 easier rides with every third week being an easier week. I won't know the impact of this until I retest in about 5 weeks time but if nothing else I'll be fitter going in to spring than I normally am.

supermurph09

IF you don’t want to better yourself every time, get the 4P test done and then when doing the videos just dial down the intensity.

redjeepǃ

I've used Sufferfest on and off since before it was 'a thing'. Initially they just posted a few videos on Youtube without the power readings etc and you could just ride along to them for motivation. I then paid to download a few of the videos and later have had a subscription for the past couple of years.

I've also used Zwift, BKool and a few of the other (free) options such as Golden Cheetah.

My stable though is Sufferfest, I feel that they provide a good balance of interactivity without it becoming a game like Zwift and good, technically based sessions. I also enjoy the collective nature of the forums (on Facebook) and the general light hearted and encouraging environment. It's also handy that you can download the session and use it without perfect wifi.

I'm not sure what else to say really, why not sign up to the free trial and see what you think ? It's more down to what you're looking for as each of the platforms offer different benefits.

This is becoming a common phrase for me on here, but why not look at what DCRainmaker says about them and make up your mind ?

Htclee

Try all of the main apps, they all offer free trials of some length. Personally I’ve found Zwift to be the most motivating and feature rich in that you can follow full training plans, create your own session, go for a free ride and tackle KOMs and sprints, lap challenges, compete in races, group workouts and rides etc..

birdie23

For me Zwift and Trainerroad are far better than Sufferfest. Sufferfest doesn't feel like the finished article and is almost a half way house between TR and the old videos

bvduck

cougie wrote:

Sufferfest are good but I'd not want to batter myself every session. Do they do plans now ?

Hey Cougie. David from The Sufferfest here. Fear not -- we aren't about battering yourself every session. Our library of workouts covers every category from base/endurance training up to sprints, including climbing, race simulation, etc. In fact, we even categorise our sessions based on how effective they are in targeting the four key areas of our Four-Dimensional Power methodology: Neuromuscular (NM), Anaerobic (AC), Maximal Aerobic (MAP) and Threshold (FTP).

We've just released a huge portfolio of free Sufferfest plans on TrainingPeaks designed by Neal Henderson and his team at APEX Coaching (they incorporate both indoor and outside rides as well as our yoga and mental toughness programmes if you like). As you may know, Neal is one of the world's best coaches and his athletes include people like Rohan Dennis (BMC) and Flora Duffy (billion times triathlon world champion). If you're going to follow a plan, it's good to know you're following one designed by a guy like that as track records matter. You can see all the plans here: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/the-sufferfest.html

bvduck

Rock bus wrote:

Hi all
With the continued cold and wet weather I’m going to have to spend some time on the turbo if I want to actually use my bike. Would be interested in people’s views and also I’m presuming the basic equipment will suffice ie basic turbo and Bluetooth cadence and speed sensors?

Hey Rock bus! Thanks for starting this discussion. David, Chief Suffering Officer at The Sufferfest, here. As my opinion is obviously biased, I'll leave thoughts on the 'fest to others. However, I just wanted to confirm that your assumption is correct: You can use Virtual Power with The Sufferfest by connecting your basic turbo and speed sensor to the app. Once you do the fitness test and get your 4DP profile, the app will then set all the virtual power targets for you in all the workouts.

bsharp77

birdie23 wrote:

For me Zwift and Trainerroad are far better than Sufferfest. Sufferfest doesn't feel like the finished article and is almost a half way house between TR and the old videos

Each to their own, but the Sufferfest has moved on leaps and bounds in the last year.
The new app is very polished indeed - one of the best in my opinion and the range of workouts is continually on the increase.
Added to that is the new 4DP feature (its been discussed well enough in another topic), user profile type, passport etc, I find it really excellent.

I'm sure David can confirm if he reads this, but there are plans afoot to incorporate full digital training plans within the app this year - I think this is key and will be the final push needed for many choosing between SF and TR.
Fair enough, Zwift has its own training plans etc, but slightly a different with much more focus on social integration and in my opinion much inferior beast from the dedicated training apps like SF & TR for what I'm looking for.

The competition between training platforms is a good thing, as it should increase the overall quality of product available - you can't really go wrong between the 3 as they are all of a very high standard - just comes down to your own personal preferences and what you want out of it.

cgfw201

Tempted to do the Tour of Sufferlandria this year to see how the platform is now. Not used it for around 4 years, but now with a Quarq powermeter and iPad pro the suff experience should be miles ahead of dragging and dropping the old videos into trainerroad on my ancient laptop. Will probably miss the virtual distance being logged on Strava for a day or two but suspect I'll get over that.

bsharp77

cgfw201 wrote:

Tempted to do the Tour of Sufferlandria this year to see how the platform is now. Not used it for around 4 years, but now with a Quarq powermeter and iPad pro the suff experience should be miles ahead of dragging and dropping the old videos into trainerroad on my ancient laptop. Will probably miss the virtual distance being logged on Strava for a day or two but suspect I'll get over that.

Tempted by the ToS too if I can fit it in time wise.
Im actually using a Powertap P1S pedals on a Lifefitness GX spin bike connected to an iPad pro - works like a charm.
I too miss the virtual distance being logged, but thanks to the nice setup I now have, I'm doing more sessions than I've ever done over the winter.

birdie23

bsharp77 wrote:

Each to their own, but the Sufferfest has moved on leaps and bounds in the last year.
The new app is very polished indeed - one of the best in my opinion and the range of workouts is continually on the increase.
Added to that is the new 4DP feature (its been discussed well enough in another topic), user profile type, passport etc, I find it really excellent.

I'm sure it has and I didn't think it was bad, just think it's a little short of what I personally want. I use Zwift at the moment, I like the social side and I use custom workouts a bit too so not having the depth of other apps isn't too important.

What I'd say about SF is, I've previously used TR a fair bit before SF had an app and they were still just videos. You could put a SF video in the window and TR would give you it's graphs etc and that was perfect. If SF can get it to that level it would be great.

I've got a month free of TR here that came with my Direto so I need to give that a go at some point and refresh my thoughts on that but for me, right now, I'm pretty happy with Zwift to finish off this winter. Next winter I might go with something else. Who knows!

stevie63

birdie23 wrote:

What I'd say about SF is, I've previously used TR a fair bit before SF had an app and they were still just videos. You could put a SF video in the window and TR would give you it's graphs etc and that was perfect. If SF can get it to that level it would be great.

You do know that the sufferfest App now gives you the graphs and targets like trainerroad? If you go the the sufferfest homepage and scroll down you'll see an example of how it looks.

bsharp77

birdie23 wrote:

What I'd say about SF is, I've previously used TR a fair bit before SF had an app and they were still just videos. You could put a SF video in the window and TR would give you it's graphs etc and that was perfect. If SF can get it to that level it would be great.

Hi birdie,

If I'm reading that right, thats a very old version of The Sufferfest you have tried.
The new app has graphs overlaid with the videos and you can choose to feature power or cadence graphs - whichever you choose. All workouts also have a small thumbnail of the overall power graph to show you what you are getting yourself into, and you can also quickly choose your workout based on duration or training type.
It really is very well set up and as I mentioned, the only thing missing now is the in-built training plans which you can follow from within the app - that will be the cherry on the cake.

If you like Zwift and get on well with it, thats great too - everyone gets their motivation in different ways and want slightly different things within their training programs - nothing wrong with that.
I guess as long as it encourages you to keep training through these dark mornings and evenings then thats the main thing!

johand

For me Trainerroad has more structured sweet spot plans that build gradually to better form. it also give great tips for better pedalling style, single leg training etc...
Sufferfest is more give it all for an hour... more like spinning,

gsk82

johand wrote:

For me Trainerroad has more structured sweet spot plans that build gradually to better form. it also give great tips for better pedalling style, single leg training etc...
Sufferfest is more give it all for an hour... more like spinning,

The elements of Style video covers that sort of thing. There's plenty of base videos now to. It's not all about battering yourself like it was 3 or 4 years ago. the training plans have a lot of sessions "@90%", as you can reduce the intensity (ie suggested power) once you start a video.

Personally I've no intention of trying the other two. If I was watching a graph for an hour at a time I doubt I'd even finish the first session. I can imagine Zwift been full of OTT types, so I've always avoided it. Sufferfest isn't perfect, but it's structured and entertaining, and it's getting better every year.

birdie23

bsharp77 wrote:

birdie23 wrote:

What I'd say about SF is, I've previously used TR a fair bit before SF had an app and they were still just videos. You could put a SF video in the window and TR would give you it's graphs etc and that was perfect. If SF can get it to that level it would be great.

Hi birdie,

If I'm reading that right, thats a very old version of The Sufferfest you have tried.
The new app has graphs overlaid with the videos and you can choose to feature power or cadence graphs - whichever you choose. All workouts also have a small thumbnail of the overall power graph to show you what you are getting yourself into, and you can also quickly choose your workout based on duration or training type.
It really is very well set up and as I mentioned, the only thing missing now is the in-built training plans which you can follow from within the app - that will be the cherry on the cake.

If you like Zwift and get on well with it, thats great too - everyone gets their motivation in different ways and want slightly different things within their training programs - nothing wrong with that.
I guess as long as it encourages you to keep training through these dark mornings and evenings then thats the main thing!

Has it changed that much since the week before last? I tried it very recently. Didn't like that there's no indication of how long is left in the current effort either.

w00dster

Hi Birdie,
On The Sufferfest videos there is two indications of the length of the interval, firstly the power graph gives an indication showing what is coming up, doesn't give precise seconds but enough information to infer, you also know the session you are doing and the interval types so this also helps. Then there is the red oblong box that shows the interval length, the red grows longer towards the end of the box showing how long is left.
I do think The Sufferfest training has improved massively lately. 4DP and the training programmes are a huge step forward from the old spin type sessions based on rpe. It's great to have so much choice, I think the best training plans are the ones that make people come back for more. If you find Zwift works or another platform that's great, personally I find The Sufferfest works for me.
I used TR in a structured training programme last year, didn't really enjoy it, but I'm pretty weak minded, I enjoy the humour in The Sufferfest videos and those little things bring me back to training.
I started using The Sufferfest years ago on a dumb trainer, I think Angels was new at the time. I get your point about that being like a spin class. But they have evolved, the structure is there, the graph overlay, actual and target power and cadence showing in video really helps.
The different types of training videos showing what each one focusing on improving is really useful.

birdie23

w00dster wrote:

Hi Birdie,
On The Sufferfest videos there is two indications of the length of the interval, firstly the power graph gives an indication showing what is coming up, doesn't give precise seconds but enough information to infer, you also know the session you are doing and the interval types so this also helps. Then there is the red oblong box that shows the interval length, the red grows longer towards the end of the box showing how long is left.
I do think The Sufferfest training has improved massively lately. 4DP and the training programmes are a huge step forward from the old spin type sessions based on rpe. It's great to have so much choice, I think the best training plans are the ones that make people come back for more. If you find Zwift works or another platform that's great, personally I find The Sufferfest works for me.
I used TR in a structured training programme last year, didn't really enjoy it, but I'm pretty weak minded, I enjoy the humour in The Sufferfest videos and those little things bring me back to training.
I started using The Sufferfest years ago on a dumb trainer, I think Angels was new at the time. I get your point about that being like a spin class. But they have evolved, the structure is there, the graph overlay, actual and target power and cadence showing in video really helps.
The different types of training videos showing what each one focusing on improving is really useful.

Yeah, so it doesn't do what I was saying I'd like it to then? I would like the time remaining in seconds. I don't want to have to guess from a not very well scaled little red box when I only want to focus on the effort.

Hopefully they'll look at putting it in at some point, if they do then I'll probably give it another go.

sancho_panza

birdie23 wrote:

w00dster wrote:

Hi Birdie,
On The Sufferfest videos there is two indications of the length of the interval, firstly the power graph gives an indication showing what is coming up, doesn't give precise seconds but enough information to infer, you also know the session you are doing and the interval types so this also helps. Then there is the red oblong box that shows the interval length, the red grows longer towards the end of the box showing how long is left.
I do think The Sufferfest training has improved massively lately. 4DP and the training programmes are a huge step forward from the old spin type sessions based on rpe. It's great to have so much choice, I think the best training plans are the ones that make people come back for more. If you find Zwift works or another platform that's great, personally I find The Sufferfest works for me.
I used TR in a structured training programme last year, didn't really enjoy it, but I'm pretty weak minded, I enjoy the humour in The Sufferfest videos and those little things bring me back to training.
I started using The Sufferfest years ago on a dumb trainer, I think Angels was new at the time. I get your point about that being like a spin class. But they have evolved, the structure is there, the graph overlay, actual and target power and cadence showing in video really helps.
The different types of training videos showing what each one focusing on improving is really useful.

Yeah, so it doesn't do what I was saying I'd like it to then? I would like the time remaining in seconds. I don't want to have to guess from a not very well scaled little red box when I only want to focus on the effort.

Hopefully they'll look at putting it in at some point, if they do then I'll probably give it another go.

Set lap button on your head unit at the start of the interval... then you'll still get the graph on the app indicating where you are plus 30 second countdowns during the interval, and second by second for the last thirty. Some intervals are up to 40 minutes long; some are just seconds. I think the balance of detail on screen is spot on. I don't use a smart trainer but an old school direct drive Lemond Rev with power meter.

Sufferfest is absolutely terrific; varied, personalised and extremely entertaining. Where else could you possibly enjoy 120 minutes on a home trainer!

birdie23

Sancho Panza wrote:

birdie23 wrote:

w00dster wrote:

Hi Birdie,
On The Sufferfest videos there is two indications of the length of the interval, firstly the power graph gives an indication showing what is coming up, doesn't give precise seconds but enough information to infer, you also know the session you are doing and the interval types so this also helps. Then there is the red oblong box that shows the interval length, the red grows longer towards the end of the box showing how long is left.
I do think The Sufferfest training has improved massively lately. 4DP and the training programmes are a huge step forward from the old spin type sessions based on rpe. It's great to have so much choice, I think the best training plans are the ones that make people come back for more. If you find Zwift works or another platform that's great, personally I find The Sufferfest works for me.
I used TR in a structured training programme last year, didn't really enjoy it, but I'm pretty weak minded, I enjoy the humour in The Sufferfest videos and those little things bring me back to training.
I started using The Sufferfest years ago on a dumb trainer, I think Angels was new at the time. I get your point about that being like a spin class. But they have evolved, the structure is there, the graph overlay, actual and target power and cadence showing in video really helps.
The different types of training videos showing what each one focusing on improving is really useful.

Yeah, so it doesn't do what I was saying I'd like it to then? I would like the time remaining in seconds. I don't want to have to guess from a not very well scaled little red box when I only want to focus on the effort.

Hopefully they'll look at putting it in at some point, if they do then I'll probably give it another go.

Set lap button on your head unit at the start of the interval... then you'll still get the graph on the app indicating where you are plus 30 second countdowns during the interval, and second by second for the last thirty. Some intervals are up to 40 minutes long; some are just seconds. I think the balance of detail on screen is spot on. I don't use a smart trainer but an old school direct drive Lemond Rev with power meter.

Sufferfest is absolutely terrific; varied, personalised and extremely entertaining. Where else could you possibly enjoy 120 minutes on a home trainer!

Zwift.

I don't use a head unit when I'm on the trainer, and I'm not going to start using one to make up for a feature that's lacking from some training software. None of the workouts I did had second by second countdown for intervals until the last 5 seconds. It's great it works for other people, the videos are great, the 4DP was great but for me it could be better with a few minor tweaks.

gsk82

did your other half cheat on you with the sufferfest birdie23?

birdie23

gsk82 wrote:

did your other half cheat on you with the sufferfest birdie23?

I've only said I don't like one aspect of it. People are responding like I've said it's the worst thing since Hitler.

It's pretty good, a few tweaks and it would be even better. Without the tweaks, I prefer Zwift or Trainerroad YMMV

gsk82

birdie23 wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

did your other half cheat on you with the sufferfest birdie23?

I've only said I don't like one aspect of it. People are responding like I've said it's the worst thing since Hitler.

It's pretty good, a few tweaks and it would be even better. Without the tweaks, I prefer Zwift or Trainerroad YMMV

Fair enough. But it reads like you think it's the worst thing since hitler, probably why you're getting that reaction.

birdie23

gsk82 wrote:

birdie23 wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

did your other half cheat on you with the sufferfest birdie23?

I've only said I don't like one aspect of it. People are responding like I've said it's the worst thing since Hitler.

It's pretty good, a few tweaks and it would be even better. Without the tweaks, I prefer Zwift or Trainerroad YMMV

Fair enough. But it reads like you think it's the worst thing since hitler, probably why you're getting that reaction.

It really doesn't, unless you ignore 90% of what I've written but whatever.

EBEB

I’ve increasingly got into Sufferfest since they introduced ‘4DP’. Prior to that every normal session was a killer, but probably because I am rubbish at sprints. When they were just calculated based on FTP I would be killed by them; now it takes into account being rubbish at them and I can (just) make it to the end of sessions and exercise the next day.

Anyone thinking of doing the free trial should do ‘full frontal’. If I just did an interval based on FTP I’d conclude they were just about killing yourself suffering. In fact it is a pity they don’t make that 1 video free so people can get their numbers, rest and then start the trial. I think the current 7 day free trial encourages people to jump straight in to the main videos based on the FTP & get a negative impression. Pretty sure more people would subscribe after a 4DP test than just their FTP.

The lack of countdown was at first a bit of a negative, but now I quite like the mental distraction of doing the maths. There is a permanent overall session clock, so if you have a 5 minute interval… The thing I’d most like is to be able to vary the power smoothing - at present I always overshoot at the start of an interval - my subjective feeling of how a power feels sucks after a break or at the end of a tiring interval, so RPE isn’t enough & HR is too slow.

abba

EBEB wrote:

The thing I’d most like is to be able to vary the power smoothing - at present I always overshoot at the start of an interval - my subjective feeling of how a power feels sucks after a break or at the end of a tiring interval, so RPE isn’t enough & HR is too slow.

I think, it is just physics. To increase your speed, for example, from 20 km/h to 30 km/h stepwise (almost immediately) you have to produce a certain amount of work dA (energy) in very short time interval dT. Power = dA / dT . With a decrease in the time interval, the power increases. More sharply you changing your speed, more power you have to produce.