Focus Paralane shifting problems
Quizmate
Posts: 97
I picked up a new Focus Paralane from Evans last October in Shimano 105 spec. I figured with discs and mudguards (and ignoring the press fit bb) it would make a great winter bike. Unfortunately after 3 or 4 rides I noticed the shifting on the rear was not working well so I set about 're indexing. However despite having done this many times on other bikes the shifting wouldn't settle at all, the issue being that going from high to low up the cassette was fine but coming back down the change was hesitant or refused to move at all. Not good on a new bike. My LBS took a look and after changing the cable to a Dura Ace version noted that the internal routing on the chain stay is forced through quite a severe angle as it bends around the axle and exits the frame. Possibly a design floor but I can't find any other comments or complaints anywhere online and this is a well reviewed bike. I'm wondering now if anyone else has had issues with this bike or whether I should complain to Evans? My club mates laugh and tell me to upgrade to Di2...........nice but not exactly my idea of a 105 winter build......and expensive too! Anyway shifting seems to be as bad as ever. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
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picture of rear triangle and especially cable routing into rear mech from triangle will help.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
I'd also check the gear hanger is straight. Doesn't matter if it's a new bike, they can still be slightly out.0
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^ Wot he said. Did the shop that swapped in the D-A cable not check it?
On paper it looks an excellent winter bike. If I'd parted with £1500 I'd want it to be changing gear properly too. I take it for whatever reason you don't want to ask Evans to sort it out?
What you describe sounds like cable drag to me, but with fully internal cable routing it may be hard to work out where exactly it's happening twixt shifter and mech. You could unclamp the cable at the mech and pull on it while shifting up and down see if you can feel any unusual resistance?
Pics on the interweb do suggest quite an abrupt kink just before it exits the chainstay. How long is that final loop of outer to the mech? Some bikes and mechs require quite a long run / more leisurely radius for smooth shifting. Said pics all seem to have a generous final loop. But then again I'd expect that to be done to a certain spec at the factory...0 -
Hi Quizmate,
A friend of mine bought a Paralane back in the early summer. He’s been really pleased with the bike including the 105 gearing which has worked v well since purchased. This would suggest not a design fault but more something to do with set up, or the hanger as Lives Here has noted.
Good luck with getting it fixed and would be interesting to hear the solution if you get the chance.
BW0 -
Hi Everyone
Thanks for the input. My LBS checked the hanger alignment first thing and no problems there. Main reason for not going back to Evans was mostly convenience as my LBS is 10 minutes up the road, whereas Evans is in the City Centre with no parking etc. My 105 version is the carbon at over 2 grand so yes it really should shift properly. Looks like I'll have to take it in to Evans under warranty for them to take a look, otherwise I could get left with a faulty bike.0 -
Hello Everyone.
There are images available that help to explain my resolution project regarding this subject, any advice regarding how to make them available to Forum Members would be most useful.
Meanwhile the Images are available at:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/155449020@N04/ndavz7
Sorry about the quality, first time using Flickr because of problems with Photobucket.
Because of problems with my Paralane Factory a search for Focus Paralane Shifting Problems was initiated and this discussion was discovered. I promptly registered to enable me to contribute, and act that time hoping that information would be garnered sufficient to kick start the Manufacturers, Derby-Cycle.com parent company of Focus, into action about this problem. It has been possible to communicate with Derby-Cycle, although they could not tell me the RAL Code for my bike, whilst Focus have evaded all my attempts to communicate.
The situation with my bike was urgent, excuses to miss a ride are not on the option list, it was essential to restore usability and the work necessary to achieve that goal became more important than constructing a [hopefully] meaningful post.
The shifting problem manifested itself by the inability to access the highest gear, minor adjustments failed to last for a whole ride.
The first attempt at resolution was the purchase and installation of a new Inner Cable. The item, immediately available from a LBS, was not ideal. Total Cost [Read Rip Off] £8.00. The components on my bike are SRAM and they use 1.1mm diameter Gear Cable and the only product available off the shelf was 1.2mm. This had obviously originated in a 'Bulk Buy' box simply rolled and twisted in an attempt to keep it reasonably small, but the worst aspect was that the Cut End had not been 'bonded' with a dab of solder.
Regardless it was necessary to work with the items available. The 0.1mm difference in diameter does make a simple job of threading the Cable through the Brake-Shifter much harder and this is worsened by the Cable Strands spreading out due to the need to bend and twist the Cable to find a passage through the mechanism.
After several attempts the Cable was installed, Unfortunately the outcome was not satisfactory.
The second attempt, via a different LBS, involved purchasing the correct diameter Inner Cable and sufficient Outer Cable to replace the two existing short lengths in use. Total Cost [including a Spare Inner Cable as it was the correct diameter] less than £10.00. The idea was to increase the lengths of the two Outers to provide reduced friction using less tight curves. Many Inner Cables are 2200mm to 2300mm in length, as in the first attempt above, this one was only 2000mm, Being too focussed [no pun intended] on the diameter I overlooked to check the length. This kiboshed the intention to reduce friction. During the necessary work opportunity was taken to properly examine the Inner Cable route from the Bottom Bracket to Chain Stay Outlet. The outcome was marginally better and was deemed 'ridable', to be sure an early morning ride was taken and it proved to be a really miserable experience.
Faced with exasperating situations drives me to search for solutions to eliminate the probable causes and strengthens my resolution to overcome the problem. Clearly somebody at the design stage decided that using a pliable semi rigid tube between the Bottom Bracket and the Chan Stay Outlet would serve as an 'Outer' for that part of the route. Given the Inner Cable is under constant tension it will 'straight line' between contact points, sharpening the route angles and when in contact with soft materials will act akin to a rough Cheese Wire with a frequent sawing action every time gears are changed.
This abominable design was the spark that made me decide that it was going to be necessary to redesign, obviously within the existing constrains, for the entire Gear Cable Route. The paramount need was to get rid of the inadequate Chain Stay Guide Tube, eliminate as many Outer Cable Ferrules as possible, dispose of the poor quality Plastic Guides [under the Bottom Bracket] at the same time removing the major water and dirt access to the Inner Cable.
All the apertures involved were tested, using spare pieces of Outer Cable, for the possibility of installing one single Outer Cable. Every joint/connection in the Outer Cable creates the probability of water and dirt ingress and added friction.
Manipulating an Outer Cable fully into place between the Bottom Bracket and Chain Stay Outlet convinced me that the project was possible.
For the third attempt, I promise this is the final one, the LBS provided a Tandem Inner Cable 3000mm long and the 'H Shed' provided an Outer Cable also 3000mm long unfortunately the only available diameter was 1.2mm but the Cut End was bonded with solder, total cost less than £10.00.
Starting at the Bottom Bracket and working toward the respective ends was found to be the easiest method. Once the Outer was 'fished' out of the Down Tube Aperture the ends were cut to length, a Modified Down Tube Aperture Plate slipped into position and Ferrules fitted to both ends.
The Inner Cable Bonding was as expected from low end products, excess solder was removed and formed into a dome shape using a File. The most pleasing aspect was the way in which the Inner threaded through the Brake-Shift lever and the entire Outer Cable within seconds, that is correct not even one minute, and the Inner Cable Stop was snug in its socket and the rather long excess was swaying its victory dance having popped out of the Outer Cable Rear Ferrule.
THE key point is the silky smooth way in which the Inner Cable slipped right through the Outer Cable whilst being eased in from the Handlebar end. There was a temporary slight increase in resistance as the Cut End negotiated the 'dip' at the Bottom Bracket area but this returned to normal for the remainder of the route.
Ensuring the Inner Cable Stop was fully pushed home the Cut End was attached to the Derailleur, tensioned and fastened with the Anchor Bolt. All other settings remained unchanged, time for testing.
It was absolutely magic, at last all gears accessible and smooth changes to boot. Cannot wait for a first proper ride able, once again, to use all gears as and when needed.
Regards, G0 -
Hello G and Everyone
Well now that is interesting. There is indeed it appears a rubber sleeve running inside the chainstay running from the bottom bracket and exiting through a sharp turn above the axle. It took my Paralane back to Evans yesterday and they to be fair were very helpful. They spotted the issue with the rubber sleeve which had crimped and was preventing proper shifting. They've thus shortened it and shifting has returned to normal. I'm wondering now though whether this is just going to come back as an issue as surely as G pointed out above the cable will simply cut through and catch on the rubber again eventually. Not good also if Focus are ignoring the issue on a frame which if bought on it's own costs £2000! At times like this I wish I'd kept it simple and gone with a simple externally cabled frame, rim brakes, threaded bottom bracket etc etc......I love stuff that just works!!!!0 -
Hi Quizmate
Have you viewed the photos on Flickr, the link was added near the top of my Post?
IMO the offending Tube is made of Plastic, it is pliable and springs back if attempts are made to bend or straighten it.
Originally mine was too long and was in direct contact with one end of the Plastic Bottom Bracket Bridge. When the Inner Cable was under tension this caused the Chain Stay Outlet End to pop up out of its aperture. This in turn made it difficult to assess whether the Inner Cable tension was sufficient, pushing the Flange back into the aperture was pointless because it simply popped out immediately.
I carefully trimmed the Bottom Bracket end of the Tube a few times to create a small gap and ensure that the tube remained protruding from the Frame to continue protection of the Inner Cable.
May I make it clear that my bike bought in July 2017 had been used nearly everyday for 6 months before there was a rapid deterioration of gear changing performance. There is evidence of wear on the harder Plastic of the Bottom Bracket Bridge, in the groove that carried the bare Inner Cable. It seems obvious that there will probably be more wear in the Plastic Tube at the sharpest point of the bend. When I have time the Tube will be cut open and I will post the outcome here.
Given the cost of the bike anyone would expect the Gear Cable Route to be properly sealed, engineered and executed using durable materials. The sad reality is that the Single Outer Cable solution would have been a cheaper option to produce and install.
Unfortunately it seems that Paralane owners can expect this problem to raise its ugly head unless action is taken. I would be willing to take part in Legal Action to force Derby Cycle to take appropriate measures to ensure that purchasers do not loose out.
Not covered by this discussion there is another matter that needs publicising regarding the Paralane, it will become the subject of my next contribution to Bikeradar Forum.
I had a ride this morning and apart from fine tuning the Barrel Adjuster on the Rear Derailleur, just a one quarter turn, gear changing is now back to snappy making me a happy chappie of course. This is happening using low end inexpensive products for the Gear Cables and absolutely nil lubrication has been used. I will be happy to replace the Gear Cables when it become necessary, and I will post here again when this action takes place.
Get a a pile of miles in before your warranty runs out, or perhaps seriously consider the single Outer Cable Modification?
Best wishes, G0 -
Gelphyn wrote:Hi Quizmate
Have you viewed the photos on Flickr, the link was added near the top of my Post?
Hi G
Yes thank you I had a look at your photos. Very helpful at helping me picture what's going on. Thanks also for the clarification on the consistency of the cable tube. Evans described it as rubber, but as you say it would make more sense for it to be a harder material. Likewise mine was too long and had compressed on the cable. I agree that a company with the R&D budget of Focus should do better. It's a shame as I really like the ride and the bike in general (except for the rear mudguard which is noisy over harder bumps, and there's plenty of those around here). If Shimano bring out Di2 in 105 hell I might just upgrade........but I shouldn't have to really. I'm guessing we're not the only customers with this issue, although I imagine the Paralane doesn't sell in as a high a volume as similar bikes by the likes of Trek, Specialized and Cannondale!
Will update on how I get on, but sadly I'm off the bike for a few weeks with an aggravated IT Band......but that's another story!
Thanks
Quizmate0 -
I'm reading this thread with quite some interest as I've been considering a Paralane. Any ideas if the routing is also the same on the Aluminium frames?0
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I have never been able to closely inspect an Alloy Framed Paralane and for reasons unknown Focus seem reluctant to present their products in the manner that most Manufacturers do. E.g. click on a side on view of a bike and most will present a much larger and very detailed view, do this with Focus and you have all you are going to get. Google Images may present an opportunity to see the needed detail.
However looking at what is readily available to me there is a significant difference, between the Carbon and Alloy Frames, in the 'joining' of the Seat Stays and Chain Stays in the rear Axle area.
The Alloy Frames show the Gear Cables exiting the Frame with the Derailleur 'Loop' pointing just upward and out of the Chain Stay.
The Carbon Frames have the Gear Cables exiting from the top of the backward sloping area that joins to the Seat Stay and the exit point could be said to be on and approximately perpendicular to the Seat Stay. This makes the difference in exit angle about 30 to 35° between the two Frame Types. This inappropriately guided angle has to be negotiated, in the Carbon Frames, and is a significant contribution to the friction problem.
It would be useful for you to ascertain whether the area below the Bottom Bracket is similar on the Alloy Frames compared to the Carbon versions [in case it has been overlooked the Carbon version is shown in the photos linked in a post above].
There is a possibility that a Guide Tube would be necessary to 'ease' the passage of the Inner Cable from the BB into the Chain Stay? If this is the case it will be subject to wear and tear.
I am not going to make any purchasing recommendations regarding any Paralane bike. However unless anyone can give me a significantly improved scheme to rectify, at comparable cost to the Paralane Factory Gear Cable Modification I have undertaken, then IMO it is the LEAST that needs to be done to eradicate the problems presented by the original design.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, mine is that the modification should not have been needed and the bike as sold could be construed as NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE.
Will you be happy if your 22 Gears [correct (?) for the model of interest, only 11 in my case] cannot be reliably used for a reasonable period?
Happy choosing time, G0 -
Wow, that's a lot of writing!
I've always been wary of internal mechanical cabling. I care not for aerodynamics or aesthetic considerations; I like them on the outside where I can get at them.
I can see the sense in having electrical wiring inside the frame to protect it, but with mechanical it seems to bring more problems than solutions.
If I spent my time doing laparoscopic surgery or inserting cardiac stents I might fancy an internally cabled bike to keep my hand in, but otherwise, not.0 -
@ Quizmate
As advised my post on Focus Paralane Factory [unsure whether other Paralane Models have similar setup] Tyre-Wheel problems can be found here.
https://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=130884970 -
-Dash wrote:I'm reading this thread with quite some interest as I've been considering a Paralane. Any ideas if the routing is also the same on the Aluminium frames?
If you go on the Evans website and look at the 2018 Tiagra Alu. model, you can zoom in on the image, you can see that the routing of the RD cable is external from the BB to the stop on the chain stay, loop to RD.
https://www.evanscycles.com/focus-paral ... e-EV3177520 -
Had exactly the same problem, noisy shifting to a higher gear, mainly the middle cogs, but noise would disappear when shifting back to a lower gear. Really frustrating as had to shift past required gear then back down. Changed derailleur, cable and chain trying to find problem. Cut the hard plastic tubing in the chainstay shorter as could see it was moving and hitting the guide around the bottom bracket, this helped but did not fix the problem. Was considering running a full length outer because of the bends in the chainstay and after reading this forum decided to do it ...... PROBLEM FIXED
Looking on the bright side, learning how to do work on a bike.
Really like this bike for the type of riding I do, it is even better with a 10-42 cassette and tubeless.0 -
Hi again, one thing I didn’t mention was SRAM has the Paralane as one of there Apex 1 Factory Builds
https://www.sram.com/stories/apex-1-factory-builds
you would think a shifting issue like the one in this forum would be sorted if trying to promote a product, just my opinion.0
