Ultegra 8000 (w/ RS685) vs. Force 22 Hydro
Bikeigh
Posts: 3
Hi all,
I'm in the process of building my first bike. It will be an all-rounder used for cyclocross racing and gravel grinding with some potential for weekend touring.
I am having trouble deciding between the new Ultegra 8000 (w/ RS685) and Force 22 hydro groupsets. All of my current bikes have different levels of Shimano. I do find however that shifting from the small ring to the large ring on my cross bike is often difficult for me, requiring what I feel is excessive force. (Maybe some maintenance or tweaks need to be done?)
For this reason, I was thinking of going with SRAM shifting. The Yaw FD technology also sounds awesome. I am however a little apprehensive about the hydro braking - in particular the use of DOT fluid and performance in terms of rotor rub. So much so that I've thought about building a frankenbike with compressionless cable-actuated hydraulic brakes (w/ mineral oil).
I plan to use a Praxis crankset regardless of other components. They seem to be cheaper and I like the looks. Also toying with the idea of a sub-compact since I tend to cross chain a lot. (Perhaps a separate thread question.)
So here is my long list of questions:
- It's my understanding that Ultegra 8000 is new to the market. I cannot find a release date for the most recent Force 22 groupset. Is SRAM due for an update?
- If I cross chain (big-big), is there really that much difference between the Ultegra 8000 performance and Force 22 with Yaw? Or is it marketing that has got me caught up in the Yaw? I do understand that I would no longer have to trim but it's the ability to cross chain more easily I'm interested in (albeit, still bad on wear, I know!).
- For those that have Force 22 hydro - how is braking performance and maintenance? Do you have to constantly fiddle like I've read? Any issues with the DOT fluid?
- In terms of crashing... (which I'm prone to...), any points on durability of Shimano vs. SRAM? I know rather subjective, but I'd like to hear opinions.
- Also in terms of cyclocross use - is one or the other more prone to having shifters blocked up with dirt due to lever design?
- Any experience with cable-actuated hydraulic brakes (like Juin Tech or TRP)? Would this be silly to build a new bike with this mix? I thought it may be an alright way to get the best of all worlds - double-tap shifting, Yaw FD, non-SRAM braking, more aesthetically pleasing hoods, and cheaper to replace shifters (since I'm prone to accidents...).
Thanks for the help!
I'm in the process of building my first bike. It will be an all-rounder used for cyclocross racing and gravel grinding with some potential for weekend touring.
I am having trouble deciding between the new Ultegra 8000 (w/ RS685) and Force 22 hydro groupsets. All of my current bikes have different levels of Shimano. I do find however that shifting from the small ring to the large ring on my cross bike is often difficult for me, requiring what I feel is excessive force. (Maybe some maintenance or tweaks need to be done?)
For this reason, I was thinking of going with SRAM shifting. The Yaw FD technology also sounds awesome. I am however a little apprehensive about the hydro braking - in particular the use of DOT fluid and performance in terms of rotor rub. So much so that I've thought about building a frankenbike with compressionless cable-actuated hydraulic brakes (w/ mineral oil).
I plan to use a Praxis crankset regardless of other components. They seem to be cheaper and I like the looks. Also toying with the idea of a sub-compact since I tend to cross chain a lot. (Perhaps a separate thread question.)
So here is my long list of questions:
- It's my understanding that Ultegra 8000 is new to the market. I cannot find a release date for the most recent Force 22 groupset. Is SRAM due for an update?
- If I cross chain (big-big), is there really that much difference between the Ultegra 8000 performance and Force 22 with Yaw? Or is it marketing that has got me caught up in the Yaw? I do understand that I would no longer have to trim but it's the ability to cross chain more easily I'm interested in (albeit, still bad on wear, I know!).
- For those that have Force 22 hydro - how is braking performance and maintenance? Do you have to constantly fiddle like I've read? Any issues with the DOT fluid?
- In terms of crashing... (which I'm prone to...), any points on durability of Shimano vs. SRAM? I know rather subjective, but I'd like to hear opinions.
- Also in terms of cyclocross use - is one or the other more prone to having shifters blocked up with dirt due to lever design?
- Any experience with cable-actuated hydraulic brakes (like Juin Tech or TRP)? Would this be silly to build a new bike with this mix? I thought it may be an alright way to get the best of all worlds - double-tap shifting, Yaw FD, non-SRAM braking, more aesthetically pleasing hoods, and cheaper to replace shifters (since I'm prone to accidents...).
Thanks for the help!
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Comments
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Bikeigh wrote:I do find however that shifting from the small ring to the large ring on my cross bike is often difficult for me, requiring what I feel is excessive force. (Maybe some maintenance or tweaks need to be done?)
For me, this has usually been because I didn't clamp the cable on the front mech correctly. Sometimes there is a nobble you are supposed to wrap the cable over or you could route the cable to the rear of the nut instead of the front by mistake. This means you effectively have a shorter lever to move against the derailleur's spring so it feels really stiff.
Note the little hump on this sram force yaw mech
Other causes are theoretically possible. Thinking about it logically going from shifter to mech:-
- goosed shifter, undo the cable clamp at the mech, grasp the cable and apply a little tension pulling away from the shifter, operate the shifter to gather in and release some cable, how does it feel?
- bad cable route with tight corners
- bad inner cable, frayed or rusty and catching somewhere
- bad ferule causing friction
- mech seized or gunged, try lubing pivot points and manipulating it.
I've recently been trying sram out and put a 2nd hand red 10speed (pre yaw) set on one bike, on another I put some 10sp apex shifters (not yaw so have trim positions), rival22 wifly rear mech and force 22 yaw front mech. Sram is really convenient for mix and match between 10 and 11 speed because the cable pull is the same. As long as you have the same number of cogs on the cassette as the shifters it works fine, 10sp and 11sp mechs apparently interchangable. I find the yaw front mech works well, I don't need the trim positions the shifter offers and I can cross chain for short periods (bad I know, so I try not to).
I've not crashed any sram kit yet, but I like the double tap operation. I have 105 on another bike and it's no bother switching between them, shifting becomes intuitive very quickly.
I don't have any disc braked bikes so can't help you on that. I'm intrigued you don't mention 1x which is all the rage?0 -
Thanks for the trouble-shooting tips. Worth looking into since this problem is swaying my decision.
As for the 1x vs. 2x I've gone back and forth with both. I landed on 2x since the bike will be an all-rounder. I based my decision on one race in particular which will require subtle gearing to draft behind others on rail trail (when I'm exhausted but wanting to hold on) and also go up a mammoth hill at the end of the race. And I'm not so sure a 1x would provide as much versatility for a situation like this.0
