Fred Whitton - 2018

DeVlaeminck

I've posted this before but unless you are very strong, well under 7 hour target for the FW, go up Hardknott in your lowest gear as easy as you can without the bike tipping over. If you end up pushing you'll ship more time than riding it however slowly.

SonnyBlackpool

Arturo Belano wrote:

SonnyBlackpool wrote:

Ive just seen the lakeland loop today actually so im going to go for that instead. Then the tour de yorkshire the sunday before the fred whitton. See how it goes

I think hitting Hardknott after 90 miles of the FW, when you've never done it before, would be one of those OMFG moments you seldom get in cycling, so would be worth it for that alone.

OTOH, it has to be a psychological help to know you can make the climb - most people probably can get up it in isolation so knowing the rhythm of it would be a big help. The first third is a kick in the baws and you can't soft pedal your way into it, you need to be on it from the outset. Don't blow up, though, as the final third is absolutely savage so you need to keep as much as you can manage in reserve by recovering on the easier middle section.

Thanks mate. Not too long now so be good to see how it all goes and everyone to post how they did. Good luck to everyone

leodis75

Nowhere near where I want my fitness to be, I am just going to take it all in, get my nutrition right, enjoy the day and see what time I come back in, if I need to push on HK so be it. I wont make the Lakeland Loop this year but then again it might be worth the drive, I have the TdY sportive the week before which is 80 miles and 8k of climbing, should set me up for a pootle around the Lakes in May.

What times are people planning on starting? I am driving over from Keswick so should avoid traffic issues from Ambleside.

rob13

I hope you all get better weather for the Fred than we've been having. Treacherous descents if its raining.

smuttiesmith

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I've posted this before but unless you are very strong, well under 7 hour target for the FW, go up Hardknott in your lowest gear as easy as you can without the bike tipping over. If you end up pushing you'll ship more time than riding it however slowly.

As someone has gone well under 7 hours I can confirm that the people at the faster end of the spectrum are also just shoving it in bottom gear and pacing their way up the climb at around threshold. No one is attacking it, the gaps between the riders open up of their own accord. Any 'acceleration' is in the final few minutes but even then you are inviting cramp at Cockley Beck.

arturo_belano

leodis75 wrote:

What times are people planning on starting? I am driving over from Keswick so should avoid traffic issues from Ambleside.

Early as poss for me - staying at Langdale YH so will push off 6am I reckon. Looking at 8/9 hrs for me so makes sense to get going in case anything goes wrong on the route. Plus I like cold early mornings.

I got off quite early last year, riding up to the start on the main road I saw the first wave of riders go off - first lad was in the drops, 25 mph+, steaming up the road. Made me laugh - either he was on for 6 hrs, or he collapsed in a heap on the top of Kirkstone and had to call his mum come get him.

smuttiesmith

Arturo Belano wrote:

leodis75 wrote:

What times are people planning on starting? I am driving over from Keswick so should avoid traffic issues from Ambleside.

Early as poss for me - staying at Langdale YH so will push off 6am I reckon. Looking at 8/9 hrs for me so makes sense to get going in case anything goes wrong on the route. Plus I like cold early mornings.

I got off quite early last year, riding up to the start on the main road I saw the first wave of riders go off - first lad was in the drops, 25 mph+, steaming up the road. Made me laugh - either he was on for 6 hrs, or he collapsed in a heap on the top of Kirkstone and had to call his mum come get him.

Zak Walker set off at 6:21 and finished in 5:56. Could of been him as he seems to have set off on his own. If it wasn’t him then yes he was probably blowing out of his rear end by Holbeck Lane!

arturo_belano

Got a bit of a sighter in today - starting Borrowdale, rode Honister straight round to Cold Fell, then Eskdale and over HK / Wrynose to Ambleside. Legs took a walloping, so either the family hillwalk I did yesterday was holding me back, or I'm in for a long day come the 13th! Anyhow, managed to clear HK, but was proper crawling by the top.

Big reminder to get my brakes in order - have some TRPs that I've never been that impressed with, but thought they were at least functional. Not functional enough for a ride like this - gave myself a proper scare coming off the top of Honister when a car came up, and just generally didn't feel confident opening things up on the descents [it was a wet day].

cruff

Your arms will hurt more than your legs did at the top by the time you get to the bottom of Honister and Hardknott. Braking is absolutely savage. I had an awful time up Hardknott - was fine until the second hairpin when a bloke toppled off in front of me and I had to unclip. Walk of shame for me after that - though I did at least have a cracking view of some of my mates walking from the start of the steep bit...

Definitely get your brakes sorted. I'd not use carbon rims either - if it's wet you're a candidate for A&E. There was a lad being seen to by paramedics when I came down off Hardknott or Wrynose (I forget exactly where, the last 20 miles is a bit of a blur!) - he later got airlifted and had a broken pelvis and femur I believe

leodis75

Cruff wrote:

Definitely get your brakes sorted. I'd not use carbon rims either - if it's wet you're a candidate for A&E. There was a lad being seen to by paramedics when I came down off Hardknott or Wrynose (I forget exactly where, the last 20 miles is a bit of a blur!) - he later got airlifted and had a broken pelvis and femur I believe

Was he using carbon rims?

cruff

Looked it. They were Cosmics with a black brake track - could have been the Exalith I suppose (didn't stop to look and confirm - I was too busy sh*tting meself!). There were a lot more brave souls on carbon rims than I expected. Some fella came past me on Swiss Sides at a rate of knots on the A6 into Keswick (I recognised the sound of them before he even passed me as I have the same wheels). I'm a fat lad, so gravity had taken over and I was leading about 20 people down the DC at that point. Passed him a bit later going up Cold Fell blowing out of his ar5e and asked him how the descents were on them - he said they were much better than the year before when he did if on Enve's with full carbon rims - the descent off Honister in particular apparently was ridiculous. I'm reasonable at descending, but there's no way I'd do the Fred on carbon rims - especially if it's wet

smuttiesmith

I rode last year on carbon rims and will do again this year. Few reasons for this, I’m local and know the descents very very well and I have ridden the roads recently and know the current road conditions. I am confident in their braking in all weather conditions. I weigh less than 10st. They are nearly 2lb lighter than the shallow section wheels I have. My average speed is sufficiently high enough for it to make a difference.

I wouldn’t recommend carbon rims if a number of the above points don’t apply to you.

nammynake

I would echo the comment re Carbon rims. Did a very wet ride yesterday on Reynolds Assault wheels - regarded as one of the best for wet and dry braking. Frankly, they were abysmal. Did quite a few 20+% descents and even with regular 'feathering' to clear the water, the stopping distance was far too long to be ridden safely. On a ride such as the Fred, when there's a good chance of having lots of riders in close proximity, I would argue it's bordering on unsafe to ride these kind of wheels on the Fred if lots of rain is forecast. Even if you know the roads well, just how much longer is the stopping distance in the wet, and can you safely stop in time if someone comes off in front of you.

I'll be sticking to regular wheels (Exalith brake track), or if the forecast is very bad I'll take my winter bike with discs.

smuttiesmith

If your using the Reynolds Assaults with the original Reynolds brake pads then they are absolute garbage in the wet. Swiss Stop Black Prince are a heck of a lot better with Reynolds wheels.

Re crashes I have never seen anyone fall off yet. To be fair last year by the time we were over Honister we were through the thick of the field. I think I saw 10-20 people max on Hardknott.

As I said above if the points I made don’t apply to you then don’t ride carbon rims.

mamil314

With 3 weeks left, is it too early to look at weather forecasts for a general idea?
I am hoping for at least for some cloud since my already pathetic climbing diminishes even further in the direct sun exposure.

ugo.santalucia

mamil314 wrote:

With 3 weeks left, is it too early to look at weather forecasts for a general idea?
I am hoping for at least for some cloud since my already pathetic climbing diminishes even further in the direct sun exposure.

Long term forecasts will yield the average temperature for the period and a mix of sunshine and showers. You are looking at a window of 8 hours and within that window you are quite specific about what you want... I think 1-2 days before you might get an overall picture, but nothing too specific.
FWIW I would not run on forecasts... if there is a severe weather warning, then it's worth knowing what is all about and take that into account, otherwise dress conservatively (e.g. don't wear a winter jacket if they forecast rain and don't wear short sleeves with nothing underneath if they forecast sun) and bring a showerproof

mamil314

Thank you for thinking i can do it in 8 hours. I am getting more scared every day as the event approaches and i watch those Hardknott videos.

ugo.santalucia

mamil314 wrote:

Thank you for thinking i can do it in 8 hours. I am getting more scared every day as the event approaches and i watch those Hardknott videos.

8,9 or 10 hours... same thing...

Hardknott is a lot steeper in the real than in those videos, if it is of any consolation...

It's a couple of Km... worse come to worst you will have to walk... it's not the Eiger, people seem to magnify these things

arturo_belano

mamil314 wrote:

Thank you for thinking i can do it in 8 hours. I am getting more scared every day as the event approaches and i watch those Hardknott videos.

Definitely some cloud cover would be nice - last year was glorious sunshine, which made for a great spectacle with the landscape, but it was too hot. Think it was literally the first ride I'd done that year where it was hot, and I suffered for it.

The majority of the field are dismounting on Hardknott as far as I saw, so it's not like walking it is a big deal (plenty walking on Honister even, which is a bit shameful tbh). One thing I'd say is that not only IS Hardknott very hard, it LOOKS very hard - rolling down Eskdale with 90 miles in the legs it looms extremely large indeed. So plenty of folk are psychologically beaten before they start. You really have to want to get up it - pass the phone box into the trees, take a deep breath and dig in.
The middle section is an absolute blessing from heaven, it's easy - so if you can winch the difficult first third you'll get respite for a decent stretch. Then it's all in for the top third.

mrb123

The crazy thing is that the middle section is still 8-10% but it feels and looks almost flat compared to what has gone before and the horrors to come.

Recovery there is absolutely vital if you want to stand a chance of getting the worst bit.

davebradswmb

I've received my ride pack today. In the rider notes it states :

*Due to the long fast descents we have in the past seen a number of carbon rims (sic) failures, if you are using carbon rims please ensure they are from a reputable brand, have been checked before the start and have the correct type of brake pads.

Seems that the organisers are also a bit concerned about carbon rims.

mrb123

The state of the roads must be a real concern.

Some of the surfaces are bad enough at the best of times (top part of the Honister descent, most of Hardknott etc) but I understand that there are a number of new potholes on some of the passes.

Go careful out there folks!

smuttiesmith

davebradswmb wrote:

I've received my ride pack today. In the rider notes it states :

*Due to the long fast descents we have in the past seen a number of carbon rims (sic) failures, if you are using carbon rims please ensure they are from a reputable brand, have been checked before the start and have the correct type of brake pads.

Seems that the organisers are also a bit concerned about carbon rims.

Concerned about cheap carbon wheels
Concerned about poorly maintained carbon wheels
Concerned about people not using the correct pads with them

So if your using high quality, well maintained wheels with the right brake pads they are happy or have I missed something?

nammynake

I have no issues with people walking but I wish they would keep to the very edge of the road. The road is narrow and having to weave around people makes the climb even tougher - if that's possible.

mamil314

Does anyone know which Castelli jersey is used to make Fred Whitton jersey? Dn't suppose it would be a Gabba, the tail flap is too short. Also, does rider pack really say 'Failure to bring long sleeve jersey will result in DQ'?

davebradswmb

mamil314 wrote:

does rider pack really say 'Failure to bring long sleeve jersey will result in DQ'?

Yes it does, but I don't know how they police it. I always keep a lightweight shower jacket in my saddlebag anyway, but no-one asked to see it last year. The weather was great of course so it wasn't needed, so I suspect that the ruling will only be used if the weather is bad and people start suffering with cold.

arturo_belano

'Long sleeve wind / waterproof' is the wording on the website, can't recall what it said in the notes. Doesn't seem unreasonable, wouldn't everyone be doing that anyway for a ride like this?

DeVlaeminck

Depends on the forecast, I know the Lake District can be changeable but it's still only England at the start of May and if the forecast was nailed on sunshine I doubt I'd pack a waterproof. Was it 4 years ago there were people getting borderline hypothermia - organisers are always going to err on the side of caution I suppose.

ugo.santalucia

I suspect they will police it if the forecast is for rain... 2 years ago they didn't, but it was the sunniest FWC on record.

Plenty of imbeciles happy to show up in short sleeves and nothing else... the organisers have a point

davebradswmb

I think in this day and age you can pretty much rely on the weather forecast. You can then select what to wear based upon the forecast, nevertheless I think it is not a bad idea on any longer ride, especially one in the hills, to have an extra layer available just in case the weather is a little worse than expected, or you have a mare of a ride and get caught out a lot later than you were expecting.