Speed incorrect on Wahoo Elemnt with Elite Rampa Smart trainer

meggiedude

Hi there.
I have finally got round to building the bike I want to use for indoor training, and getting my new Elite Rampa Smart turbo and new Wahoo Elemnt computer linked.
I am seeing issue with the speed it shows on the Elemnt.
I have no extra Speed/Cadence sensors to link - so this is all guesstimated (I assume) via the turbo.

Trouble is it is showing me doing like hundreds of mph when, I am doing a fraction of this in reality.
I can see you have an automatic wheel size calibration for the turbo within the Wahoo phone app - which was pre-selected. I then changed it to 700x23 manually to correspond to my wheel/tyre. Neither fix the issue.
What is meant to go in the Whaoo app. The wheel circumference, the roller circumference, or something else. The Elite instructions are next to useless, and I can't find anything on the Wahoo site.

Ta in advance

StillGoing

Presumably you've done the full calibration via the My Elite Training app? If not do it and if you have, do it again. My old Kura needed the spin down doing at least 3 times before it worked correctly. Read the Elite spec for the turbo as some have wheel size figures that must be entered into devices for the correct speed readings. I can't imagine a wheel on trainer needing a different figure, but you never know with Elite.

meggiedude

philthy3 wrote:

Presumably you've done the full calibration via the My Elite Training app? If not do it and if you have, do it again. My old Kura needed the spin down doing at least 3 times before it worked correctly. Read the Elite spec for the turbo as some have wheel size figures that must be entered into devices for the correct speed readings. I can't imagine a wheel on trainer needing a different figure, but you never know with Elite.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I had already set up the turbo via the My Elite Training app, I forgot to mention that. My setup with that app was via my Bluetooth connected Android phone, as at this point I don't have an ANT+ dongle. I didn't think that this would make a difference. I have checked for the Elite spec for this turbo, but there was nothing I could find to suggest that I had to do anything special
But it looks like you are suggesting that the issue is likely not with Wahoo app, but an Elite confirmation before I connect this way?

StillGoing

Seems that the Ramp calculates speed by the number of turns of the turbo roller. They suggest that tyre slippage can cause huge differences in speed readings. They also recommend 6 bar pressure for the tyre.

Shane Miller has plenty of videos re the Ramp smart trainer, so may be able to answer your question better. If it still isn't playing, I would contact both Elite and Wahoo support for investigation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oN6XUlb3pQ

meggiedude

Hi philthy3, et al,
An update for those Elite Rampa + Wahoo users out there.

So I have played with tyre pressues, and different amount of clamping on this (new) tyre.
Elite recommend running a 700x23c tyre with 7-8bar - which is what I am at. I don't notice any slippage.
I still see issues with speed descrepancies on the Wahoo.

I have tried to contact both Elite and Wahoo about this.
Wahoo have been great with their level of response. in fact at one point replying within 20mins of one email.
Elite have been sadly lacking in any kind of response. Indeed, an email before Xmas about lack of ability to authorise my access to their forum has not been answered, despite being chased twice.

Anyway. Wahoo recommended I try a wheel circ figure of 0.175m which is actually for the Elite Direto (a direct drive unit). It gives better figures, but they still vary all the time.

I have created a video shared on Flickr to show the issue. Keep an eye on Wahoo mph figure.
https://flic.kr/p/227cQ25 (pls excuse the cat litter tray in background)

In it, on the right, you will see my Android Phone with the Elite myETraining app - connected via Bluetooth
On the left you have the Element connected via Ant+ FE-C.

As you will see the Power & Cadence are the same for both, but not the speed.
I think this proves that the BLE and Ant+ signals are connecting each device OK.
The speed appears genuine on the myETraining app, but varies a lot on the Element.
Looks like a bug to me - and the Wahoo admin agrees.
Apparently there is a new firmware upgrade coming out to address "a know bug that our developers are currently working on and hoping to push a resolution for on our next update, which is coming in the next couple of weeks."
So we will see if this fixes the issue

Cheers

StillGoing

I'd send the You Tube link to Elite. A ride buddy that received a faulty turbo, did the same. They chased up his replacement and sent him some goodies on promise that he remove it.

meggiedude

philthy3 wrote:

I'd send the You Tube link to Elite. A ride buddy that received a faulty turbo, did the same. They chased up his replacement and sent him some goodies on promise that he remove it.

Its an option mate. If only they'd respond to my emails :roll: - which they haven't since my first attempt to access their forum some time last year. I've now emailed them 3 times (via their support page, twice about forum , and once about this issue).
If the scheduled Wahoo firmware change does nothing to resolve things in a couple of weeks, and Elite still haven't got back to me, I will put something on the Elite facebook page (or tw@tter them)

StillGoing

I've just seen the image. Are you referring to the My E Training app when you refer to the speed differences? If so, forget My E Training as it is crap and only really good for calibration purposes. My old Kura would have me spinning away like merry hell putting out watts where I knew what my speed should be, only My E Training would indicate things like 10-13mph?

meggiedude

philthy3 wrote:

I've just seen the image. Are you referring to the My E Training app when you refer to the speed differences? If so, forget My E Training as it is crap and only really good for calibration purposes. My old Kura would have me spinning away like merry hell putting out watts where I knew what my speed should be, only My E Training would indicate things like 10-13mph?

For me the Elite MyETraining app (the one one the phone on the right) is spot on. It's the Wahoo Elemnt on the left that has the Speed all over the place
BTW not sure it's clear, bit that link is to a video, not an image. Trouble is the Play button is in the middle of the black area, so not clear.
Have a play of the vid and you will see what I mean.
Wahoo speed jumps all over the place.

StillGoing

I'll try my Direto linked into the Elemnt and see what I get speed indication wise against the My E Training app and let you know if there's any difference there. (If I can figure out how to change the wheel diameter on the Wahoo!

meggiedude

philthy3 wrote:

I'll try my Direto linked into the Elemnt and see what I get speed indication wise against the My E Training app and let you know if there's any difference there. (If I can figure out how to change the wheel diameter on the Wahoo!

Thanks. Appreciate it.
Will be interested to know what you find, as you have a very similar setup to me, albeit your trainer is direct-drive.
Have got into Elites forum now and posted my issue. We will see what they come back with.

timothyw

Without wishing to ask a really stupid question, why do you care what the speed says?

You should be training to power & perhaps cadence, which you've already said are stable.

If you connect up to zwift then the 'speed' data will be completely ignored, and your speed will be done entirely based on the power readings, and vary depending on whether you are going uphill or downhill in the virtual world....

The only accurate speed reading on a turbo would be 0 mph, because that's how fast you're actually going.

meggiedude

TimothyW wrote:

Without wishing to ask a really stupid question, why do you care what the speed says?

You should be training to power & perhaps cadence, which you've already said are stable.

If you connect up to zwift then the 'speed' data will be completely ignored, and your speed will be done entirely based on the power readings, and vary depending on whether you are going uphill or downhill in the virtual world....

The only accurate speed reading on a turbo would be 0 mph, because that's how fast you're actually going.

It's a fair point, but my feeling here is that if speed is wrong, then other stuff may be also.
I did not want to overcomplicate this thread any more than it is, but I am not convinced that the resistance from rides ive done before uploaded to the Wahoo via ridewithgps are anything like the resistance levels they should be.
So if there are speed issues between the two then what else is being lost in translation between the two via Ant+.
The speed is is easy to see. The resistance differences are more difficult to judge as I don't own a power meter.

shmooster

Don't know about the Rampa but on my Direto it has 12 sensors and pings 12 times a wheel revolution rather than 1. You therefore have to set the wheel size to something quite small. I was a bit confused when my Garmin said I was doing over 100mph, got all kinds of personal records I had to delete.

StillGoing

Because its a wheel on trainer, I don't think there's a need to alter the wheel size as speed is calculated from the rotations of the roller.

I do see that it can be frustrating knowing something isn't working correctly, but I also agree that you should train to power and not worry about it too much. If its Zwift that you're using, it will automatically set the speed based on your power and weight. My Kura worked fine with Zwift and TrainerRoad, but the speed/power readings on My Elite Training were way off. Things are much better with the Derito. THe speed reading with the DIreto on the Wahoo Elemnt is spot on too once the wheel size has been amended.