Dispute with retailer
bianchi_dave
Posts: 933
Not sure if this is best here or 'cake stop' but here will do for starters.
Just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and what the outcome was.
I recently purchased a pair of Mavic wheels from a large retailer (who shall remain nameless for now at least). The wheels were fitted with the new 360 freehub, with which I am admittedly unfamiliar. When I unpackaged the rear wheel, the drive side white protective axle cover was loose and came away with the axle end cap, which allowed the freehub body to slide off the axle.
A bit alarmed, I immediately phoned the retailer to be told that the axle end cap just slides back on and that the only thing holding the whole assembly together is the quick release (once fitted to bike). I duly put the end cap back on and it clipped into place, but when fitted to bike the wheel wouldn't turn properly. I was advised by the retailer to send the wheels back - and that cost of return postage would be covered (I mentioned how expensive this was for a one time user). I used Parcelforce, which relieved me of nearly 50 quid, including insurance up to the wheels value.
The retailer examined the wheel and declared it was not faulty - their mechanic had replaced the axle end cap but it took a bit of force - obviously something I was not going to do with brand new wheels!
Anyhow, I was offered the wheels back but refused as I'd no confidence in the product - my thinking being the rear hub was not properly assembled in the first place and it was too expensive a purchase to take a risk. I was given a full refund for the wheels but the retailer refused to refund my return postage costs, on the grounds the wheels were not faulty.
My argument is that as per the Consumer Rights Act the goods were 'not fit for purpose' at the time I received them and as such I am entitled to have the return postage covered. Their argument is that after their mechanic looked at the wheels and fitted to a bike they were fine.
What is really annoying is being told the return postage would be covered prior to sending them back. Furthermore, I was told that if I accepted the wheels back, my return postage would be covered as a 'good will' gesture, but they now deny this was ever said.
I could just name and shame and forget the whole thing but I'm really pissed at being £50 out of pocket!
Any thoughts?
Just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and what the outcome was.
I recently purchased a pair of Mavic wheels from a large retailer (who shall remain nameless for now at least). The wheels were fitted with the new 360 freehub, with which I am admittedly unfamiliar. When I unpackaged the rear wheel, the drive side white protective axle cover was loose and came away with the axle end cap, which allowed the freehub body to slide off the axle.
A bit alarmed, I immediately phoned the retailer to be told that the axle end cap just slides back on and that the only thing holding the whole assembly together is the quick release (once fitted to bike). I duly put the end cap back on and it clipped into place, but when fitted to bike the wheel wouldn't turn properly. I was advised by the retailer to send the wheels back - and that cost of return postage would be covered (I mentioned how expensive this was for a one time user). I used Parcelforce, which relieved me of nearly 50 quid, including insurance up to the wheels value.
The retailer examined the wheel and declared it was not faulty - their mechanic had replaced the axle end cap but it took a bit of force - obviously something I was not going to do with brand new wheels!
Anyhow, I was offered the wheels back but refused as I'd no confidence in the product - my thinking being the rear hub was not properly assembled in the first place and it was too expensive a purchase to take a risk. I was given a full refund for the wheels but the retailer refused to refund my return postage costs, on the grounds the wheels were not faulty.
My argument is that as per the Consumer Rights Act the goods were 'not fit for purpose' at the time I received them and as such I am entitled to have the return postage covered. Their argument is that after their mechanic looked at the wheels and fitted to a bike they were fine.
What is really annoying is being told the return postage would be covered prior to sending them back. Furthermore, I was told that if I accepted the wheels back, my return postage would be covered as a 'good will' gesture, but they now deny this was ever said.
I could just name and shame and forget the whole thing but I'm really pissed at being £50 out of pocket!
Any thoughts?
Scott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda
0
Comments
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I think you're going to struggle to get anywhere with this one. You complained the end cap was too loose, but the retailer states you didn't use enough force to fit it correctly (which surely its a better scenario). Its a shame you don't have any documented evidence to support your claim they would refund your postage regardless of the outcome, as I think this is purely a customer service issue rather than consumer rights.0
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I know you're reluctant to name the retailer, but most of the larger online retailers offer free returns don't they? Was there not a print your own return label service available a la CRC etc?0
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Bianchi Dave wrote:their mechanic had replaced the axle end cap but it took a bit of force
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... -my-rights
Arguably, the items were faulty as the end cap wasn't fitted correctly - at which point, you are entitled to a refund on the wheels.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consu ... lty-goods/"Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, goods should be of a satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described. My rights have been breached because the item you sold me is faulty. I would like a refund/repair/replacement."
If you paid by card - it's worth contacting the card issuer too. £50 is quite a bit to spend on postage - it would've been cheaper for the retailer to arrange a pickup.
It's not a black & white - and the retailer might "win" - but it's worth a stronger fight.0 -
Beatmaker wrote:I know you're reluctant to name the retailer, but most of the larger online retailers offer free returns don't they? Was there not a print your own return label service available a la CRC etc?
They're not one of the big ones, so don't offer that service. Wish I had just bought from Wiggle/CRC as wouldn't be in this position now. I certainly won't ever use this store again even if they are cheaper. Tis often said you find out how 'good' a retailer is once there is a problem.Scott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda0 -
Slowbike wrote:Bianchi Dave wrote:their mechanic had replaced the axle end cap but it took a bit of force
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... -my-rights
Arguably, the items were faulty as the end cap wasn't fitted correctly - at which point, you are entitled to a refund on the wheels.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consu ... lty-goods/"Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, goods should be of a satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described. My rights have been breached because the item you sold me is faulty. I would like a refund/repair/replacement."
If you paid by card - it's worth contacting the card issuer too. £50 is quite a bit to spend on postage - it would've been cheaper for the retailer to arrange a pickup.
It's not a black & white - and the retailer might "win" - but it's worth a stronger fight.
I've checked out my rights and as you say, the goods were 'not fit for purpose' when I received them. It is a very difficult thing to prove. Retailer claims they have video of the wheels working - good for them, as they certainly were not when I had them!
Postage was steep, it always is with higher value items. That was with Parcelforce 24hr service (insured) - the cost didn't concern me at the time as I was told it would be covered......
I did ask (verbally) when my refund was being arranged if they would at least meet half the return cost, but again a flat no, as they claimed the goods weren't faulty. They've even had the cheek to say if I'd taken the wheels to an lbs (which I don't have regardless) they would have known how to fit the end cap correctly! Again, why should I have to do this - bottom line is the wheels didn't bloody work when I received them!Scott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda0 -
Painful as it is, I would just take it on the chin. At least you have got your money back for the wheels.
I have been stung a few times with faulty bike stuff over the last couple of years and whilst I have been successful (eventually) on getting refunds i now get as much as I can from the lbs. Might be more expensive but prevents issues like this.0 -
Don't you get a variety of end caps and bit with those for different axle standards, or is that just the MTB ones?I don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
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Parktools0 -
cooldad wrote:Don't you get a variety of end caps and bit with those for different axle standards, or is that just the MTB ones?
Think that's maybe just MTB ones, there were no other end caps included.Scott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda0 -
It's a difficult situation as you appear to have used a very expensive postage option - I would have insisted on the retailer in the first place providing you with a prepaid postage option (aside from anything else they have access to cheaper services that we can't get) - I don't see why you should have had to fork out to send back faulty wheels.
I think the retailer should be offering you 'fair' postage costs or perhaps some kind of store credit goodwill, but I can entirely understand them not wanting to give you £50 just for some wheels needing a bit of assembly, shall we say.
Still, if the situation is as you describe it (and they did promise to cover your costs) then I think you should name and shame.0 -
Just name the retailer so that users of the forum can decide themselves whether or not they will purchase from them, if the retailer is of the opinion that they handled correctly then they won't mind in the slightest.
The retailer, regardless of who said what should've at least met you half way on the return costs........ it's dreadful customer service IMO at least now consumers have some power with the internet!!!'REMEMBER SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE
SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM'0 -
Bianchi Dave wrote:Beatmaker wrote:I know you're reluctant to name the retailer, but most of the larger online retailers offer free returns don't they? Was there not a print your own return label service available a la CRC etc?
They're not one of the big ones, so don't offer that service. Wish I had just bought from Wiggle/CRC as wouldn't be in this position now. I certainly won't ever use this store again even if they are cheaper. Tis often said you find out how 'good' a retailer is once there is a problem.
Thats a shame, and its why I tend to stick to either the LBS or a big retailer for large purchases. I used to run the CycleSurgery online store many years ago, and I would have arranged collection or refunded the courier costs by way of goodwill in a similar instance.0 -
Do you have any record of the confirmation that return postage would be covered? Ideally you'd want this in writing, but even being able to say "Joe Bloggs told me on XYZ date that..." would be helpful. If you keep trying for long enough you may make this just enough of an irritation for them to refund you/give some store credit just for some peace and quiet, but if you can't, as per the earlier advice you should name and shame.0
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Beatmaker wrote:Bianchi Dave wrote:Beatmaker wrote:I know you're reluctant to name the retailer, but most of the larger online retailers offer free returns don't they? Was there not a print your own return label service available a la CRC etc?
They're not one of the big ones, so don't offer that service. Wish I had just bought from Wiggle/CRC as wouldn't be in this position now. I certainly won't ever use this store again even if they are cheaper. Tis often said you find out how 'good' a retailer is once there is a problem.
Thats a shame, and its why I tend to stick to either the LBS or a big retailer for large purchases. I used to run the CycleSurgery online store many years ago, and I would have arranged collection or refunded the courier costs by way of goodwill in a similar instance.
Others I've spoken to in the retail business say the same, but it seems this company don't give a to** about customer service or the bigger picture....Scott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda0 -
JamesHulsk wrote:Do you have any record of the confirmation that return postage would be covered? Ideally you'd want this in writing, but even being able to say "Joe Bloggs told me on XYZ date that..." would be helpful. If you keep trying for long enough you may make this just enough of an irritation for them to refund you/give some store credit just for some peace and quiet, but if you can't, as per the earlier advice you should name and shame.
I know date and time but can't recall the name of the store worker who told me not to worry about postage as they'd cover it. Live and learn - you just don't think theres going to be a problem in those circumstances.Scott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda0 -
Bianchi Dave wrote:JamesHulsk wrote:Do you have any record of the confirmation that return postage would be covered? Ideally you'd want this in writing, but even being able to say "Joe Bloggs told me on XYZ date that..." would be helpful. If you keep trying for long enough you may make this just enough of an irritation for them to refund you/give some store credit just for some peace and quiet, but if you can't, as per the earlier advice you should name and shame.
I know date and time but can't recall the name of the store worker who told me not to worry about postage as they'd cover it. Live and learn - you just don't think theres going to be a problem in those circumstances.
It's a shame, but as you say you won't make the same mistake again. Keep pushing if not just to wind them up!0 -
If it costs£50 to post wheels how can any shops sell cheap sets by mail ?0
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1) You have distance buying rights, think it is a 14 day cooling off period where you can return item (at your cost for full refund)
2) £50 to return 1 wheel? You've been had, i've returned a pair before for £15 including insurance up to £750 (under similar circumstances, got item, changed my mind and retruned them for full refund, that was with Wiggle mind you).0 -
shiznit76 wrote:1) You have distance buying rights, think it is a 14 day cooling off period where you can return item (at your cost for full refund)
2) £50 to return 1 wheel? You've been had, i've returned a pair before for £15 including insurance up to £750 (under similar circumstances, got item, changed my mind and retruned them for full refund, that was with Wiggle mind you).
Correct, there is the 14 day period to return even if I changed my mind (where goods are not faulty), but in those cases the retailer does not have to cover the return postage (although 'good' ones generally do and have facilities for it). In the case of faulty items, by law the retailer is responsible for the cost of 'reasonable' return postage. But I was also told that postage would be covered by them.
It was the whole wheelset which had to go back as that was one complete item. Purchase price was £850 (actually a very good price!) and to insure to this value with Parcelforce24 was just under £50. The retailer claims this is not 'reasonable' as they can get postage for £11 (good for them - being a frequent business user). They never told me that prior to sending them back.
The crux of it is, they claim the wheelset was 'fit for purpose' (after their technician refitted the end cap). I claim they were not 'fit for purpose' at the time I received them as the rear hub was not assembled properly.
I'd take this all the way just to make a point, but the problem is proving everything. They're basically calling me a liar re the phone discussions and what I was told.Scott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda0 -
Next step is trading standards then. If they state that their technician had to do a repiar then it is open and shut case, they have admitted that the wheels were not fit for purpose.
As for postage, Royal Mail/Parcel force and always very dear, i used DPD who came collected and delivered with insurance for £750, don't think would have been too much dearer to increase this. To be fair to the firm, i would agree with them that the £50 is not a reasonable price to pay doe postage.
As others have said, if wheels are now working fine then looks like chalk it down to experience and take what they are offering as refund for delivery. It's annoying, but buying online carries risks, it shouldn't, but that's risk you take0 -
shiznit76 wrote:As others have said, if wheels are now working fine then looks like chalk it down to experience and take what they are offering as refund for delivery. It's annoying, but buying online carries risks, it shouldn't, but that's risk you take
Point is they're not offering me anything at all!Scott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda0 -
name and shame0
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Has to be done......'REMEMBER SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE
SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM'0 -
Bianchi Dave wrote:They've even had the cheek to say if I'd taken the wheels to an lbs (which I don't have regardless) they would have known how to fit the end cap correctly! Again, why should I have to do this - bottom line is the wheels didn't bloody work when I received them!
To my mind, this is an acknowledgement of the fact that you needed to take them to an LBS; therefore not fit for service at first receipt.
££ moolah returned please!!0 -
I think you are entitled to get something back for the courier however I also think that £50 is a bit steep and with a bit of asking around/getting quotes you would have got that down to something more reasonable. Probably not close to what they are quoting.
You may have to settle on a compromise - £30 for example.
Ask them to make you an offer....... and be prepared to accept something less than £50.0 -
Why not ask for a credit note for £50 from the retailer? Better than nothing.
Also I think name them, pbk? Merlin? Don’t think they do free returns.0 -
Bianchi Dave wrote:My argument is that as per the Consumer Rights Act the goods were 'not fit for purpose'
Are you a lawyer?
You couldn't manage to fit the axle end cap yourself, so what was your plan for fitting the cassette and tyre, along with adjusting the rear derailleur and brakes?
Sounds like you'd be better off supporting your LBS next time by buying the wheels from them and letting them fit any end caps
Eight hundred and fifty quid on some wheels and fifty quid on postage.....a fool and their money......0 -
shiznit76 wrote:Next step is trading standards then. If they state that their technician had to do a repiar then it is open and shut case, they have admitted that the wheels were not fit for purpose.
As for postage, Royal Mail/Parcel force and always very dear, i used DPD who came collected and delivered with insurance for £750, don't think would have been too much dearer to increase this. To be fair to the firm, i would agree with them that the £50 is not a reasonable price to pay doe postage.
As others have said, if wheels are now working fine then looks like chalk it down to experience and take what they are offering as refund for delivery. It's annoying, but buying online carries risks, it shouldn't, but that's risk you take
To be honest I'm with the OP getting refunded but I don't think its that open and shut if it is seating an end-cap that in many hubs is an interchangeable user item that doesn't require special tools.
As they are being stubborn and the OP selected a fairly expensive way to return them... they might just play this out and end up costing the OP far more in time and frustration. If they offer £15 back (which I've paid to ship wheels) its a lot of time invested... or then possibly more for trying to get the whole £50
Weirdly a few weeks ago I got a new set of wheels (might well be the same retailer) and had the same problem on the rear wheel. The freewheel just lifted right out.... and the only thing keeping it in is essentially the QR.
TBH I'm not really happy with the design ... as it happens I have the same hubs on mybike (this was for the kids bike) with a 12mm thru-axle and this stews in firmly keeping the free hub on.0 -
styxd wrote:Bianchi Dave wrote:My argument is that as per the Consumer Rights Act the goods were 'not fit for purpose' Are you a lawyer?
You couldn't manage to fit the axle end cap yourself, so what was your plan for fitting the cassette and tyre, along with adjusting the rear derailleur and brakes?
Sounds like you'd be better off supporting your LBS next time by buying the wheels from them and letting them fit any end caps
Eight hundred and fifty quid on some wheels and fifty quid on postage.....a fool and their money......
Deleted.Scott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda0 -
They advised you to send the wheels back.A bit alarmed, I immediately phoned the retailer to be told that the axle end cap just slides back on and that the only thing holding the whole assembly together is the quick release (once fitted to bike). I duly put the end cap back on and it clipped into place, but when fitted to bike the wheel wouldn't turn properly. I was advised by the retailer to send the wheels back
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
shall I say it one more time?
They advised you to send the wheels back.
If that's true - then They NEED to refund you the money. Contact your card provider and talk to them.
Contact the retailer and tell them you're talking to your card company and will put a complaint in with Trading Standards.
If that doesn't make them budge then (I would) feel free to publish their name.
They told you to do something, you did your best to ensure they got the items (which they did) at minimal risk - they could've advised a returns method, they could've arranged a pickup - they didn't - they told you (so you say) to send the wheels back. They must take responsibility for that.
Sorry - really pissed off about it - and I'm not the one out of pocket!0 -
Slowbike wrote:
They advised you to send the wheels back.A bit alarmed, I immediately phoned the retailer to be told that the axle end cap just slides back on and that the only thing holding the whole assembly together is the quick release (once fitted to bike). I duly put the end cap back on and it clipped into place, but when fitted to bike the wheel wouldn't turn properly. I was advised by the retailer to send the wheels back
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
They advised you to send the wheels back.
shall I say it one more time?
They advised you to send the wheels back.
If that's true - then They NEED to refund you the money. Contact your card provider and talk to them.
Contact the retailer and tell them you're talking to your card company and will put a complaint in with Trading Standards.
If that doesn't make them budge then (I would) feel free to publish their name.
They told you to do something, you did your best to ensure they got the items (which they did) at minimal risk - they could've advised a returns method, they could've arranged a pickup - they didn't - they told you (so you say) to send the wheels back. They must take responsibility for that.
Sorry - really pissed off about it - and I'm not the one out of pocket!
I have told them that numerous times but without having the conversation recorded I don't have a leg to stand on legally, and they obviously know that.
My dispute is not with Parcelforce so my card company won't do anything. They carried out a potsal service as expected.Scott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda0
