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Pensions - DIY or IFA

bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
edited December 2017 in The cake stop
Anyone set up a SIPP?, do any trading?, think they can/do perform better than using an IFA to manage your pension? or do you just save management costs? Any thoughts advice gratefully received.
All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
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Posts

  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 11,026
    In my experience DIY is down to luck. You may do well, you may do badly.
    An IFA will usually just follow trends gathered from internet sources. Don't expect much insight.
    In summary, DIY can bring significant gains or losses. An IFA is the lazier but safer option.

    PS - DIY trading will probably benefit more from dividends than prices unless the market lurches.
    Also, fully research the charges, whichever option.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,147
    I'd check out the Motley Fool forums. Much more experience over there.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    The DIY option worries me, the IFA man rubbing his hands together with glee at the thought of me giving him 2% initially and 1% annually option worries me, staying with the same provider platform i've had for the last 30 years seems the safe option, but am not sure if i'm missing out on something.
    I am checking as much as poss, just looking for jewels of info from radarites ;)
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 5,891
    there is a wealth of information about investment options readily available, so unless you have mega funds and / or wish to follow some complex investment strategies, I don't really see what you gain from paying the IFA. IFA gets paid, (under) performance risk stays with you. You can dabble or you can stick the money in low cost tracker funds e.g Vanguard.

    Providers like Hargreaves Lansdown (one of many) supply copious data on individual investments; peer group advice on sites like lemonfool.co.uk (successor to the now defunct Motley Fool forum).

    Good luck.

    Disclosure: my pots are SIPPed.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    orraloon wrote:
    there is a wealth of information about investment options readily available, so unless you have mega funds and / or wish to follow some complex investment strategies, I don't really see what you gain from paying the IFA. IFA gets paid, (under) performance risk stays with you. You can dabble or you can stick the money in low cost tracker funds e.g Vanguard.

    Providers like Hargreaves Lansdown (one of many) supply copious data on individual investments; peer group advice on sites like lemonfool.co.uk (successor to the now defunct Motley Fool forum).

    Good luck.

    Disclosure: my pots are SIPPed.

    Appreciate that, a low cost tracker seems to be the way that would suit me, research, research and more research !! :)
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,617 Lives Here
    Unless I'm mistaken, none of us are qualified or really allowed to offer advice.

    But, bluntly, unless your profession is pensions, why would you free style it in an amateur fashion?

    This is your pension, not some broken cabinet in your living room you can bodge.
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 5,891
    Rick, remember that this country has had enough of experts, right? :D

    Expressing opinions on t'internet is not giving financial advice. To take a close interest in the fees and charges one's pension provider / IFA applies, to query value for money, and to evaluate alternatives is responsible and prudent.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 11,026
    Unless I'm mistaken, none of us are qualified or really allowed to offer advice.

    But, bluntly, unless your profession is pensions, why would you free style it in an amateur fashion?

    This is your pension, not some broken cabinet in your living room you can bodge.
    I have personally known 4 IFAs in my lifetime. Three of which ripped off not only customers, but friends (not me) with no apparent guilt. The fourth is handling my pension. Should I sleep easy?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    Appreciate what you're saying Rick, I'm only after thoughts on what other people have done, something that might gel or reinforce my own gut feelings on the subject from people who haven't got a vested interest in making money by selling me a platform :wink:
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    pblakeney wrote:
    Unless I'm mistaken, none of us are qualified or really allowed to offer advice.

    But, bluntly, unless your profession is pensions, why would you free style it in an amateur fashion?

    This is your pension, not some broken cabinet in your living room you can bodge.
    I have personally known 4 IFAs in my lifetime. Three of which ripped off not only customers, but friends (not me) with no apparent guilt. The fourth is handling my pension. Should I sleep easy?
    This is what is at the back of my mind!
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 13,699
    Unless I'm mistaken, none of us are qualified or really allowed to offer advice.

    But, bluntly, unless your profession is pensions, why would you free style it in an amateur fashion?

    This is your pension, not some broken cabinet in your living room you can bodge.

    Don't say this very often but I agree with Rick! :shock:
    Plus
    If you do make a complete bollox of it, how many days in your retirement do you think your missus would not be saying,"I told you so. I told you to get a professional to do it, but no, you wouldn't listen!"
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    ballysmate wrote:
    Unless I'm mistaken, none of us are qualified or really allowed to offer advice.

    But, bluntly, unless your profession is pensions, why would you free style it in an amateur fashion?

    This is your pension, not some broken cabinet in your living room you can bodge.

    Don't say this very often but I agree with Rick! :shock:
    Plus
    If you do make a complete bollox of it, how many days in your retirement do you think your missus would not be saying,"I told you so. I told you to get a professional to do it, but no, you wouldn't listen!"
    Now look what's happening, i'm veering towards playing safe now :oops:
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 5,891
    And if your IFA makes a complete horlicks of it?

    The flat % of funds fee system makes it a one sided bet for the IFA. Never lose. If however, the commission was based on the increase in real terms of funds value per annum, more skin in the game. Wonder why they don't offer that option? Well, none I've heard of anyway, me not being an oligarch, a kickballer or the like.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    Just how do you go about finding an IFA you'd trust? Word of mouth? Personal recommendation?

    We had some bloke in doing planning for retirement seminars recently. Pretty interesting and some good advice. They were offering free follow-up financial consultations, so I gave them my details. I thought my blue chip employer would have chosen somebody kosher, but within 24 hours I received what I can only describe as a high pressure sales call from a pushy Scouser. His enthusiasm for transferring my pension pot out of the company scheme made me think that he must be taking a significant chunk for himself, so when I finally got a word in it was NO.

    The cynic in me thinks that the whole exercise was a way of harvesting contact details of people coming up to retirement with healthy pension funds to be raided....

    But I'm still left with the gnawing feeling that I should be getting some kind of financial advice...
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    keef66 wrote:
    Just how do you go about finding an IFA you'd trust? Word of mouth? Personal recommendation?

    We had some bloke in doing planning for retirement seminars recently. Pretty interesting and some good advice. They were offering free follow-up financial consultations, so I gave them my details. I thought my blue chip employer would have chosen somebody kosher, but within 24 hours I received what I can only describe as a high pressure sales call from a pushy Scouser. His enthusiasm for transferring my pension pot out of the company scheme made me think that he must be taking a significant chunk for himself, so when I finally got a word in it was NO.

    The cynic in me thinks that the whole exercise was a way of harvesting contact details of people coming up to retirement with healthy pension funds to be raided....

    But I'm still left with the gnawing feeling that I should be getting some kind of financial advice...

    oh bu99er this has me worried even more, but feel exactly the same re needing advice...
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    I think what i really need is to pay a fee for advice and not some agent creaming off 2% here 1% there etc, but then i'd have to manage something myself.. hence the issues i'm having
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    That used to be the standard advice; pay a one off fee for advice rather than sign up to ongoing charges. The up front payment can seem a bit steep, but it's often better vfm in the long run (assuming always that the advice was good in the first place...)
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    just spoke to pension provider and asked about charges basically without going into detail
    5% for accumulation trades
    3.5% for capital units
    .75% for management
    .75% for something else
    plus £7 per month for something else
    this is with Zurich.
    I was dizzy by this stage, i do need IFA! :(
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    but there again with my lack of knowledge in this field it might be good! :?
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 16,855
    ballysmate wrote:
    Unless I'm mistaken, none of us are qualified or really allowed to offer advice.

    But, bluntly, unless your profession is pensions, why would you free style it in an amateur fashion?

    This is your pension, not some broken cabinet in your living room you can bodge.

    Don't say this very often but I agree with Rick! :shock:
    Plus
    If you do make a complete bollox of it, how many days in your retirement do you think your missus would not be saying,"I told you so. I told you to get a professional to do it, but no, you wouldn't listen!"
    Now look what's happening, i'm veering towards playing safe now :oops:
    Exactly what you want for a pension, no? What kind of lunatic thinks having a flutter with your pension contributions is a good idea?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    1980s BSA 10sp

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 5,891
    Allied Crowbar aka Dunbar became part of Zurich in the 90s. Oh my they liked to have a charge here, a cost there, a fee next along. Sounds like they continue the practices.

    You do not need to rush this. Repeat, do not rush.

    Do your research on comparable fees and costs. The HL example I mentioned above is useful to examine, they do provide concise fees and costs breakdowns.

    You can also get hold of performance comparisons across funds, so e.g. pit your Zurich managed funds against equivalent fund types, see what return for what cost. HL have a thing called Wealth 150, their pick of the 'best' funds by sector. I think I remember they also suggest portfolio templates based on risk profile.

    Bit of work, but not difficult. And is what you would give your IFA 2% + 1% p.a. to do for you. What's your hourly rate?

    No I'm not pushing Hargreaves L. Just using as example of good info source.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    orraloon wrote:
    Allied Crowbar aka Dunbar became part of Zurich in the 90s. Oh my they liked to have a charge here, a cost there, a fee next along. Sounds like they continue the practices.

    You do not need to rush this. Repeat, do not rush.

    Do your research on comparable fees and costs. The HL example I mentioned above is useful to examine, they do provide concise fees and costs breakdowns.

    You can also get hold of performance comparisons across funds, so e.g. pit your Zurich managed funds against equivalent fund types, see what return for what cost. HL have a thing called Wealth 150, their pick of the 'best' funds by sector. I think I remember they also suggest portfolio templates based on risk profile.

    Bit of work, but not difficult. And is what you would give your IFA 2% + 1% p.a. to do for you. What's your hourly rate?

    No I'm not pushing Hargreaves L. Just using as example of good info source.
    Exactly it started as allied Dunbar, i honestly thought i was playing safe, until i delved deeper into the commission. Yes, all of my own making by not being more pro-active earlier, better late than never - eh, i think my plan is to see an IFA that will work for just a fee (that's acceptable to both of us) invest for a few more years posibly in a HL type self invested platform, then when it comes to drawdown, i get the impression you have to use an IFA for that, as some funds won't release to you without having taken IFA?
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • coopster_the_1stcoopster_the_1st Posts: 3,192
    edited December 2017
    The DIY option worries me, the IFA man rubbing his hands together with glee at the thought of me giving him 2% initially and 1% annually option worries me, staying with the same provider platform i've had for the last 30 years seems the safe option, but am not sure if i'm missing out on something.
    I am checking as much as poss, just looking for jewels of info from radarites ;)

    You're a remainer and blindly follow 'experts' no matter what their underlying motivation is. I don't see why you are struggling with this
    Fair-weather commuter
    Canyon Ultimate CF 8.0 in Black - WOW :)
    Giant Defy 2 - FCN 4(summer) / 5(winter) - Great bike
    Hybrid - FCN 8 - Relegated to the pub bike
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 11,026
    ^^^^ From the guy who doesn't even know where he is. ^^^^
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry wrote:
    ballysmate wrote:
    Unless I'm mistaken, none of us are qualified or really allowed to offer advice.

    But, bluntly, unless your profession is pensions, why would you free style it in an amateur fashion?

    This is your pension, not some broken cabinet in your living room you can bodge.

    Don't say this very often but I agree with Rick! :shock:
    Plus
    If you do make a complete bollox of it, how many days in your retirement do you think your missus would not be saying,"I told you so. I told you to get a professional to do it, but no, you wouldn't listen!"
    Now look what's happening, i'm veering towards playing safe now :oops:
    Exactly what you want for a pension, no? What kind of lunatic thinks having a flutter with your pension contributions is a good idea?

    Your comment comes as no surprise from a financially illiterate remainer! Having a flutter :lol::lol:
    Fair-weather commuter
    Canyon Ultimate CF 8.0 in Black - WOW :)
    Giant Defy 2 - FCN 4(summer) / 5(winter) - Great bike
    Hybrid - FCN 8 - Relegated to the pub bike
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,939
    rjsterry wrote:
    ballysmate wrote:
    Unless I'm mistaken, none of us are qualified or really allowed to offer advice.

    But, bluntly, unless your profession is pensions, why would you free style it in an amateur fashion?

    This is your pension, not some broken cabinet in your living room you can bodge.

    Don't say this very often but I agree with Rick! :shock:
    Plus
    If you do make a complete bollox of it, how many days in your retirement do you think your missus would not be saying,"I told you so. I told you to get a professional to do it, but no, you wouldn't listen!"
    Now look what's happening, i'm veering towards playing safe now :oops:
    Exactly what you want for a pension, no? What kind of lunatic thinks having a flutter with your pension contributions is a good idea?

    Your comment comes as no surprise from a financially illiterate remainer! Having a flutter :lol::lol:
    Try and keep it on topic eh :wink:
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 5,891
    Eff off Botster.

    No, there is no need to involve an IFA in drawdown. E.g. I have a SIPP fund which is crystallised, i.e. i have taken the 25% tax free component, but have been taking zero drawdown from it. All done by me and the SIPP provider, and all perfectly simple. [The cash was required as a bridge between property purchases and sales.]

    I had AD pots of types various from my multi change employment history; hindsight is great and it would have been better to sweep them into a (much) lower cost vehicle earlier, but hey, better late than.. etc.

    The fear factor of making one's own decisions can be high. However, example way of looking at it, if you make fund choices, this fund or that one, in your current provider's portfolio, then you are already making financial decisions. Step outside the envelope of a single provider and do the same. After doing your research of course. And no, not bitcoin! Not now.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 16,855
    rjsterry wrote:
    ballysmate wrote:
    Unless I'm mistaken, none of us are qualified or really allowed to offer advice.

    But, bluntly, unless your profession is pensions, why would you free style it in an amateur fashion?

    This is your pension, not some broken cabinet in your living room you can bodge.

    Don't say this very often but I agree with Rick! :shock:
    Plus
    If you do make a complete bollox of it, how many days in your retirement do you think your missus would not be saying,"I told you so. I told you to get a professional to do it, but no, you wouldn't listen!"
    Now look what's happening, i'm veering towards playing safe now :oops:
    Exactly what you want for a pension, no? What kind of lunatic thinks having a flutter with your pension contributions is a good idea?

    Your comment comes as no surprise from a financially illiterate remainer! Having a flutter :lol::lol:

    Thank you. Genuinely laughed at that.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    1980s BSA 10sp

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • robert88robert88 Posts: 2,706
    ballysmate wrote:
    Unless I'm mistaken, none of us are qualified or really allowed to offer advice.

    But, bluntly, unless your profession is pensions, why would you free style it in an amateur fashion?

    This is your pension, not some broken cabinet in your living room you can bodge.

    Don't say this very often but I agree with Rick! :shock:
    Plus
    If you do make a complete bollox of it, how many days in your retirement do you think your missus would not be saying,"I told you so. I told you to get a professional to do it, but no, you wouldn't listen!"

    My missus won't let me go near a professional. Whilst there's a chance a professional might have made us billionaires (we are millionaires) they might also have lost us loads.
  • If you meet the guys who run these funds you realise how little you know.

    I would not bother with an IFA if you are investing in a mainstream fund.

    Personally I like income funds as in theory they should be more stable. I only keep a few quid to play with and put the rest in Fundsmith and have been very happy. If you hear him speak on how he chooses stocks you realise his expertise is worth paying for.
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