Bedding in new winter studded tyres?

wolfsbane2k

prawny wrote:

How about on of them tyre liners like this?

That might work, but having ridden the SDW with that fitted I was quite disappointed at it's (lack of) performance

dinyull

Without wanting to hijack the thread...

How do you use your studded tyres and what conditions are they best for?

Year round commuter and have gotten away with the worst of the weather the past couple of years.

I commute in the north-east, and it's 99% main roads which are going into the city centre and always gritted well (same route as the busses). As far as I can tell I'd only really need studs for getting in and out of our estate.

Is it worth getting a pair or would my riding conditions destroy them?

fat daddy

studded tyres are best for ice .... the tyres are a soft compound rubber with lots of splits in the blocks allowing them to mould to the road surface, the spikes are short and stick in to the surface of ice.

so idealy you want to wear them when you would normaly be hitting patches of ice,

This morning was ideal, the roads were perfect white frost, but not that grippy fluffy frost, the smooth frost that forms on a previous wet road, so slippery , mix that with standing frozen puddles and streams of frozen ice that cross the road every now and again.

Junctions where cars sti and turn looked black and wet, BUT , a lot of that black wet had refrozen.

minor roads joining major roads had icy snow buildup on the corners,

This is the ideal time for spikes.

On the way home tonight though, I expect it will be warmer and either wet or dry with no ice,

The tyres are slow, they are heavy and riding tarmac does wear them down, but not as much as you would think . I only ver run them on an n+1 and use that bike when the conditions prevail, anything else and I take a bike with normal rubber

But more often than not my commute is 7am - frost and ice ... 5pm - warm and normal .. so 50% of the time I run on regular tarmac.

These tyres I am on my 3rd season, no need to change them yet, still have good wear, but dont use them everyday in the winter, just when its icy out

dinyull

fat daddy wrote:

studded tyres are best for ice .... the tyres are a soft compound rubber with lots of splits in the blocks allowing them to mould to the road surface, the spikes are short and stick in to the surface of ice.

so idealy you want to wear them when you would normaly be hitting patches of ice,

This morning was ideal, the roads were perfect white frost, but not that grippy fluffy frost, the smooth frost that forms on a previous wet road, so slippery , mix that with standing frozen puddles and streams of frozen ice that cross the road every now and again.

Junctions where cars sti and turn looked black and wet, BUT , a lot of that black wet had refrozen.

minor roads joining major roads had icy snow buildup on the corners,

This is the ideal time for spikes.

On the way home tonight though, I expect it will be warmer and either wet or dry with no ice,

The tyres are slow, they are heavy and riding tarmac does wear them down, but not as much as you would think . I only ver run them on an n+1 and use that bike when the conditions prevail, anything else and I take a bike with normal rubber

But more often than not my commute is 7am - frost and ice ... 5pm - warm and normal .. so 50% of the time I run on regular tarmac.

These tyres I am on my 3rd season, no need to change them yet, still have good wear, but dont use them everyday in the winter, just when its icy out

A mate of a mate is giving me an old CX hack so was thinking that would be ideal to throw a pair on.

Would at least ease my mind a bit, worrying about black ice on a morning.

timothyw

Yeah, the best thing I can say about the spikes this morning was that I didn't even notice that it was slippery (despite the numerous icy patches). Obviously common sense dictated that I rode a on tarmac where possible and at a steady pace but there were a few bits where ice was unavoidable.

Conversely was talking to a coworker describing how slippy it was in the car, how he could feel the wheels sliding on icy roads, how he was unable to properly park in our ice rink of a car park as the car was all over the place.

Getting a cx bike/hybrid and sticking some spiked tyres on seems like the only sensible way to do it if you want to keep bike commuting year round. Probably more sensible than driving too....

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Graeme_S wrote:

In general is there anything that can be done to prolong the life of unused tyres, or is it just the way of things? There's something really unsatisfying about throwing out a pair of tyres that will only have a couple of hundred miles on them because they've perished with age.

Yes, simply store them out of direct sunlight so UV cannot perish the rubber.

I've got some tyres that are in perfect condition from over ten years ago, I hang them on a pole, like a tyre wardrobe of sorts.

First day where the Gravdals were really needed, frost and ice patches all around Southampton, but not even a minor drama with the 252 studs per tyre. Probably will do some steady hill reps again on the way home, it's warmed up a lot during the morning, but still ice patches in the shadows.

wolfsbane2k

I've had them (marathon winters) fitted to my MTB for a month now, and have been riding it daily for the last 2 weeks after breaking a gear cable on the roadie that I've not fixed yet, and their on the second pair of wheels for that bike.

I ride across sections of rural roads that yesterday morning were absolutely coated in water from overflowing/blocked ditches drains - and last night they had frozen solid to become sheet ice.

I didn't realise how bad it was until I stopped to take a picture for prosperity of a flooded pothole that had been driven through a few times and sprayed ice/water onto the surrounding road, then freezing solid. Best part of a 10 meter ice trail... anyway, when I stopped to take a picture, I fell over - hadn't noticed I'd stopped the bike on a different puddle of ice!

There appears to be two main types of studded tyre - Snow and Ice tyres ( eg Ice spiker pros/ gravel north 45s) , and Ice Tyres ( marathon winters) - the ice spikers have a bigger tread and appear to be designed to cut into, and then shed snow/mud & reach the ice. The Marathon Winters have less tread then ( but still some) and spikes - more to deal with riding directly on the ice, rather than the need to cut through stuff on top of them.
Well, that's my perception anyway.

fat daddy

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

I
There appears to be two main types of studded tyre - Snow and Ice tyres ( eg Ice spiker pros/ gravel north 45s) , and Ice Tyres ( marathon winters) - the ice spikers have a bigger tread and appear to be designed to cut into, and then shed snow/mud & reach the ice. The Marathon Winters have less tread then ( but still some) and spikes - more to deal with riding directly on the ice, rather than the need to cut through stuff on top of them.
Well, that's my perception anyway.

pretty much yes, the marathon winters are quite hopeless in the snow, the spikes cant get down deep enough in the fluff to grip anything and the trad is too small and fast rolling so just becomes blocked.

When it snows I just grab a MTB and the big knobbles power through it

graeme_s-2

Ordered a new pair of 35C Marathon Winters on Monday, delivered yesterday. Fitted them last night, and in the process finally inspected my double punctured pair of Winters mentioned up thread. Turns out the bead had failed on both tyres, leaving pointy bits of wire sticking into the inner tubes.

I think it's probably down to my lousy technique for fitting tight tyre/rim combos. Managed to get the new set on with hands only, so hopefully I can avoid a repeat with this set. Rode them in this morning mostly on tarmac and careful not to do much in the way of hard braking or accelerating, so they should be halfway bedded in by the time I get home tonight. Just had some dusty snow about this morning, but more forecast for the next few days.

greenamex2

Run my 40c's this morning.

Zero slipping in the snow/ice, only dropped the pressures a squidge from Monday.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Is anyone else finding that quite small changes in tyre pressure can have a massive effect on the effort needed to keep studded tyres rolling, especially on the rear tyre?

~40/60PSI the other day on my 38mm Gravdals was incredibly hard work, increasing the rear to ~65PSI improved things a bit, but ~70PSI felt like I was flying in comparison to ~60PSI (this is for a total weight of ~91Kg for me on fatbike)!

Just for the novelty of it, I shall pop out after ~1000, once the extended snow rush hour should be finished... To see what riding these tyres on snow feels like.

itboffin

on fresh snow studded tyres arent any better than knobbles its hard packed and ice where they really shine

greenamex2

NitrousOxide wrote:

Is anyone else finding that quite small changes in tyre pressure can have a massive effect on the effort needed to keep studded tyres rolling, especially on the rear tyre?

~40/60PSI the other day on my 38mm Gravdals was incredibly hard work, increasing the rear to ~65PSI improved things a bit, but ~70PSI felt like I was flying in comparison to ~60PSI (this is for a total weight of ~91Kg for me on fatbike)!

Just for the novelty of it, I shall pop out after ~1000, once the extended snow rush hour should be finished... To see what riding these tyres on snow feels like.

Certainly Marathon Winters seem to drop off a cliff very quickly with rolling resistance. At 70PSI they are costing me a couple of minutes, at 50 PSI closer to 10 minutes with an even higher average heart rate.

wolfsbane2k

greenamex2 wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

Is anyone else finding that quite small changes in tyre pressure can have a massive effect on the effort needed to keep studded tyres rolling, especially on the rear tyre?

~40/60PSI the other day on my 38mm Gravdals was incredibly hard work, increasing the rear to ~65PSI improved things a bit, but ~70PSI felt like I was flying in comparison to ~60PSI (this is for a total weight of ~91Kg for me on fatbike)!

Just for the novelty of it, I shall pop out after ~1000, once the extended snow rush hour should be finished... To see what riding these tyres on snow feels like.

Certainly Marathon Winters seem to drop off a cliff very quickly with rolling resistance. At 70PSI they are costing me a couple of minutes, at 50 PSI closer to 10 minutes with an even higher average heart rate.

As above. They are perfect for resistance training...

greenamex2

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

greenamex2 wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

Is anyone else finding that quite small changes in tyre pressure can have a massive effect on the effort needed to keep studded tyres rolling, especially on the rear tyre?

~40/60PSI the other day on my 38mm Gravdals was incredibly hard work, increasing the rear to ~65PSI improved things a bit, but ~70PSI felt like I was flying in comparison to ~60PSI (this is for a total weight of ~91Kg for me on fatbike)!

Just for the novelty of it, I shall pop out after ~1000, once the extended snow rush hour should be finished... To see what riding these tyres on snow feels like.

Certainly Marathon Winters seem to drop off a cliff very quickly with rolling resistance. At 70PSI they are costing me a couple of minutes, at 50 PSI closer to 10 minutes with an even higher average heart rate.

As above. They are perfect for resistance training...

Will absolutely fly when I get off my Marathon Winter equipped 14.5Kg Hybrid back on to my X-One equipped 9Kg CX bike.

prawny

My conti Nordic spikes are murder, even at their 65psi max. Next winter I'm treating myself to some marathon winters, they've got to be better than this, I've done 120 miles on them this week and I'm shattered now.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

How low a tyre pressure are you guys (and girls?) using with your studded tyres now, compared to the recommended pressures on the sidewall and the approximate weight of you on the bike?

700x38 Gravdals have recommended pressures of 35-75PSI, I used ~35/60 (front/rear) for a very short (but very slow) trip to the shops yesterday, total weight me plus bike ~91Kg.

I was nervous as hell, trundling along in 24T/23T gear, because the ~10cm of freshly laid snow was covering compacted ruts that were ice-like, from lines cars took on the older snow. I had the odd split-second loss of traction, before some of the 252 studs pierced the ice and returned the grip.

I'm thinking of lowering the rear pressure towards ~50PSI if I have to go out again in this extreme weather, but given how I don't run tubeless, I'm concerned about snakebite punctures on the rear, which is supporting ~70% of the weight.

greenamex2

50/60

Probably could do with dropping a tad, now more ice than snow.

If its fresh snow...I hack along as fast as my little legs will take me. For ice on non-tarmac, the same. For ice on tarmac, take it easy, especially on the corners.

I weigh 60Kg, bike and other junk about 18-20Kg at a guess.

itboffin

8ft snow drifts here today and still snowing, studs or no studs there's no bike that can ride through that

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Has anyone on here had a serious slide/fall while riding this week, while having their bike equipped with studded tyres?

Been thinking more about my ride yesterday, using 35 at the front and 60 at the rear, having the odd very short bit of traction loss. I'm going to try 45 at the rear and give that a try before the snow goes, so I have a better idea of what to do next time we get snow here, something that happens very rarely (I can recall three times including now in the last 25 years in Southampton, where snow lasted more than 24 hours).

Very fortunately for me, I don't have to go anywhere beyond the local shops for the next 9 days as I'm on annual leave booked over a year ago, but at some point in the future I will be due to work and need to know if these Gravdals can safely get me there and back in one piece in these relatively extreme conditions.

greenamex2

Mostly easily corrected front end wandering.

I am still running high pressures so a little iffy on ice. OK for most of the 13 mile ride home. Got caught out one bit, off camber, ice and some churned up snow. Nearly hit the parked car my daughter rode into last year. Will drop the pressures if the ice continues.

ugo.santalucia

On normal "there might be the odd ice patch" days, I fit only a front 40 Marathon winter... and that costs me about 3 minutes on my 40-45 minutes commute.
On bad days, I fit both front and rear and that costs me about twice as much.

meanredspider

Not read the whole thread but I quickly learned that I might as well be on Ice Spiker Pros on my MTB as Marathon Winters on the CX. There was only a small amount in it on my 25km each way commute but the Ice Spikers were 100% reliable on even the worst ice. Because Marathon Winters are so heavy, there was nothing in it from a weight point of view. And the MTB was far more forgiving of rutted and refrozen ice and snow on the bike paths - especially across the Kessock bridge where there was only 18” of Armco between you and the oncoming traffic.

greenamex2

meanredspider wrote:

Not read the whole thread but I quickly learned that I might as well be on Ice Spiker Pros on my MTB as Marathon Winters on the CX. There was only a small amount in it on my 25km each way commute but the Ice Spikers were 100% reliable on even the worst ice. Because Marathon Winters are so heavy, there was nothing in it from a weight point of view. And the MTB was far more forgiving of rutted and refrozen ice and snow on the bike paths - especially across the Kessock bridge where there was only 18” of Armco between you and the oncoming traffic.

If it is snow/ice/mud/gravel all the way, probably a good choice.

prawny

Conti nordic spikes aren't infallible I learned this week

https://youtu.be/xD2BrRR1CbY

Still, did better than my slicks would have, but it's made me rethink my plan to go for the 120 stud schwalbes.

wolfsbane2k

prawny wrote:

Conti nordic spikes aren't infallible I learned this week

https://youtu.be/xD2BrRR1CbY

Still, did better than my slicks would have, but it's made me rethink my plan to go for the 120 stud schwalbes.

oops. I take it the conti Nordics you were running with also the 120s?

I've got the Schwable Snow Stud's in 100 spikes, and had a few tumbles on those, so went with Marathon Winters with 200 spikes. The difference was really noticeable - in terms of weight, noise, and grip.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

prawny wrote:

Conti nordic spikes aren't infallible I learned this week

https://youtu.be/xD2BrRR1CbY

Still, did better than my slicks would have, but it's made me rethink my plan to go for the 120 stud schwalbes.

Ouch! but looks a safe landing this time for you and bike?

Ah, so you are Mr Gray on the leaderboards... I knew from STW you did serious commute mileage, but I hadn't twigged that was you!

I found with my 252 stud Gravdals that it made heck of a difference to traction by running seriously low (but above the recommended 35-75PSI) tyre pressures. I didn't experience ice or frost, which is probably a good thing, I don't expect they would have improved my odds much of staying upright.

When I fitted them as a precaution because of ~0C temps at ~0600, I was running ~50/70PSI. This made them roll well in clear conditions, I could hit ~17+mph on the flats, close to normal tyres.

But when the snow first came in early March while on leave, even ~45/55PSI felt scary on the roads near home, even at ~5mph. I went out one time on the bike, then stuck to turbo sessions until the snow went.

When snow came earlier this week and I wasn't on annual leave this time, I went down to ~35/45PSI, which gave me far more confidence over those two days in Southampton... But when the thaw came, my god getting above ~12mph on the flat was really hard work!

prawny

NitrousOxide wrote:

Ah, so you are Mr Gray on the leaderboards... I knew from STW you did serious commute mileage, but I hadn't twigged that was you!

The very same!

The Nordics are 240 studs on the front but I've got a 120 on the back. I'm not sure which one went first, I probably could have ridden it out but I panicked a bit and tried to put a foot down, I didn't have spikes on my shoes sadly.

Landing was lovely, a managed to find a big ole snow drift to lie down in

I've not been massively impressed with the ice tyres to be honest either. My commute is too far to make them really viable for me, they really wear me out. It doesn't help that I can't seem to get comfy on the Hack that replaced the broken Tenet, it feels too long, it weighs a tonne, and the front end gets blown around a lot by the wind. I might replace it with something a bit more traditional, and get the train when the weather is really bad.