Canyon Ultimate vs Aeroad dilemma

pedalbasher

I have a 2014 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX, Dura Ace mechanical, good mid-depth carbon clincher wheels. I've loved riding this bike and I've clocked up about 12,000 miles riding and racing it. I wasn't really looking to upgrade or change until recently, when I rode a mate's Madone 9 and was blown away by the ease with which it held speed.

I can't afford a Madone 9, but it's opened my eyes to the benefits of aero bikes and I've spent a few days doing some proper research into possible upgrades. I use the word lightly, because I'm fully aware that the bike I have is a bl**dy good bike. It's stuff, responsive, very light (6.6kg with pedals) and a pleasure to thrash around... BUT am I missing a trick by not looking at aero options?

I'm sure people will ask whether the marginal speed gains are really that important. The answer is "yes, kind of" - I'm a 2nd cat racer and I'm looking to really push on and make a good go at road racing next season. I'm very light (60kg) so I'll never win a bunch kick, and I look for results from breaks. As such, I do spend a lot of time working hard trying to escape and holding off the chasers (occasionally). So yes, if an aero bike will give me significant advantage in a breakaway situation, that's a big factor.

On the flip side, I love hill climbs and always try to get away for a week or two in the mountains each year. The Ultimate is spot on for these events and arguably one of the best bikes out there for climbing and all day riding.

Anyway, I'm looking at the Aeroad 8.0 Disc Di2, which comes in at a touch under £4k and about 7.5kg. I've no doubt that it would be a help for road racing next season, and I'm sure it would be a blast to train on around the rolling terrain where I live - but if I buy it, I'll have to sell the Ultimate, in which case will I regret it when it comes to hill climb season, when I line up next to kids on 5kg super-drilled machines, or when I head over to the Alps for bragging rights in the mountains?

The weight thing is a big part of my hesitancy about the Aeroad. It's about 800g heavier in the disc version, which may or may not be significant... then again, it does have discs, which is a big plus.

Any thoughts / experience comparing the two different bikes? I guess the big question is:

If you wanted to do a combination of road racing (Regional A / National B level), epic rides in the mountains, and hill climbs (with one eye on doing the nationals), which bike would you choose?

Thanks

cougie

You won't get a measurable advantage with the aero bike. Spend your money on warm weather training camps.

pedalbasher

cougie wrote:

You won't get a measurable advantage with the aero bike. Spend your money on warm weather training camps.

Thanks. My training is pretty dialled in already. I actually tested a Madone recently and compared against the Ultimate, holding a selection of different average and normalised powers for timed laps of a closed circuit. Not error-free of course, but the results were interesting... the Madone was consistently 0.6 - 1.0mph faster across a power range from 250-300w. That's potentially huge in a race scenario! Get yourself down the road and after 10 minutes riding hard, you'll be the best part of 30 seconds further ahead than you would be on the Ultimate, which is potentially the difference between getting reeled in and the pack giving up and letting you go...

But will the heavier bike ruin my love of hill climbing and riding in the mountains more than it'll give me in a road race scenario? It would be good to hear the thoughts of anyone with an Aeroad about its climbing ability.

cookeeemonster

Isn't there a lighter rim braked aeroad you could buy? Or just a lighter aero bike from a different manufacturer?

pedalbasher

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Isn't there a lighter rim braked aeroad you could buy? Or just a lighter aero bike from a different manufacturer?

Yeah there's a rim brake option, but I'm reluctant on the basis of the way the technology is going... plus for mountain descents in the rain etc, discs will be so much better. I'm just not sure how much of a hit the extra weight will be when ragging it around the local lumps and bumps, and indeed in hill climb events.

Ultimately I need 2 bikes, don't I?!

redvision

pedalbasher wrote:

I actually tested a Madone recently and compared against the Ultimate, holding a selection of different average and normalised powers for timed laps of a closed circuit. Not error-free of course, but the results were interesting... the Madone was consistently 0.6 - 1.0mph faster across a power range from 250-300w. That's potentially huge in a race scenario!

That difference could well have been down to the Madone fitting you better.

pedalbasher

redvision wrote:

pedalbasher wrote:

I actually tested a Madone recently and compared against the Ultimate, holding a selection of different average and normalised powers for timed laps of a closed circuit. Not error-free of course, but the results were interesting... the Madone was consistently 0.6 - 1.0mph faster across a power range from 250-300w. That's potentially huge in a race scenario!

That difference could well have been down to the Madone fitting you better.

Afraid not. It was too small and not low enough for me (H2 fit). I've raced on the Ultimate for a couple of years and the position is pretty fine-tuned. So if anything, a well-fitted Madone would be quicker still.

I don't think the aero benefits (at race pace, 24-27mph anyway) are in dispute. My question's really more about how well the Aeroad will deal with hill climbs and mountains...

lettingthedaysgoby

pedalbasher wrote:

Ultimately I need 2 bikes, don't I?!

Well, yes, obviously

redvision

pedalbasher wrote:

I don't think the aero benefits (at race pace, 24-27mph anyway) are in dispute. My question's really more about how well the Aeroad will deal with hill climbs and mountains...

Well as I'm sure you're aware aero isn't really all that when you're in the middle of a peloton.

I was considering both of these a couple of years ago. I asked a very similar question regarding the differences to canyon and was told that the ultimate is designed to be a very light and stiff all rounder, whilst the aeroad is designed purely for speed on flat terrain.

The aeroad is no doubt a fantastic machine and loads of people on here will confirm that. And I'm sure it would handle many climbs with ease. But whilst you are quite likely to see faster times on tt's, I would be surprised if it was significantly faster on mixed terrain courses.

I would pick which ever you like best as both will be excellent bikes.

pedalbasher

redvision wrote:

pedalbasher wrote:

I don't think the aero benefits (at race pace, 24-27mph anyway) are in dispute. My question's really more about how well the Aeroad will deal with hill climbs and mountains...

Well as I'm sure you're aware aero isn't really all that when you're in the middle of a peloton.

I was considering both of these a couple of years ago. I asked a very similar question regarding the differences to canyon and was told that the ultimate is designed to be a very light and stiff all rounder, whilst the aeroad is designed purely for speed on flat terrain.

The aeroad is no doubt a fantastic machine and loads of people on here will confirm that. And I'm sure it would handle many climbs with ease. But whilst you are quite likely to see faster times on tt's, I would be surprised if it was significantly faster on mixed terrain courses.

I would pick which ever you like best as both will be excellent bikes.

Thanks. Yes I appreciate there's less of an aero advantage in the middle of a bunch, but as I said I typically look to get results with breaks, so typically forcing a move and riding in a small chaingang situation. Clearly these bikes are ideal for those situations.

Also, I think the current iteration of the Aeroad is significantly stiffer than the previous model which had issues. It's generally considered to be decent at climbing - hell, it's the popular choice within Katusha and Movistar, even with the punchy lightweight climbers (Purito etc)... I'm convinced it'll be a quicker race bike, but I'd just like to hear from someone who has experience racing it at a decent level and preferably with experience of the Ultimate to compare.

TTs... use a TT bike? :?

mamba80

redvision wrote:

pedalbasher wrote:

I don't think the aero benefits (at race pace, 24-27mph anyway) are in dispute. My question's really more about how well the Aeroad will deal with hill climbs and mountains...

Well as I'm sure you're aware aero isn't really all that when you're in the middle of a peloton.

I was considering both of these a couple of years ago. I asked a very similar question regarding the differences to canyon and was told that the ultimate is designed to be a very light and stiff all rounder, whilst the aeroad is designed purely for speed on flat terrain.

The aeroad is no doubt a fantastic machine and loads of people on here will confirm that. And I'm sure it would handle many climbs with ease. But whilst you are quite likely to see faster times on tt's, I would be surprised if it was significantly faster on mixed terrain courses.

I would pick which ever you like best as both will be excellent bikes.

First off, i dont like disc's, a decent Carbon tub has amazing braking in the wet, i spent 4 weeks riding around the Pyrenees, wet or dry, once that water flim is wiped off the braking is fcking amazing.
My daughter races an aeroad, its a brilliant bike and her solo training ride speeds shot up but dont ran away with the idea that it ll help you win races! but climbing ? no worries at all.
check out Tour Magazine on the adv of aero bikes or not over a 100km course, its on WW.

fwiw i would go rim brake OR wait until discs come with ABS which ll be when they ll be worth having plus will make all those without, obsolete.

ryan_w-2

Aeroad Disc may very well be my next bike. Buy it and don’t regret it.

Recently back from Barcelona and even in perfect conditions with new Enves, I was longing for disc brakes on the big descents. Sod the ‘purists’, you just can’t compete with disc brakes.

redvision

Ryan_W wrote:

Recently back from Barcelona and even in perfect conditions with new Enves, I was longing for disc brakes on the big descents. Sod the ‘purists’, you just can’t compete with disc brakes.

That's crap.
Try using alloy rims rather than carbon and your braking on the big descents would be much better.

sloppyschleckonds

redvision wrote:

Ryan_W wrote:

Recently back from Barcelona and even in perfect conditions with new Enves, I was longing for disc brakes on the big descents. Sod the ‘purists’, you just can’t compete with disc brakes.

That's crap.
Try using alloy rims rather than carbon and your braking on the big descents would be much better.

He's a fat lad

ryan_w-2

redvision wrote:

Ryan_W wrote:

Recently back from Barcelona and even in perfect conditions with new Enves, I was longing for disc brakes on the big descents. Sod the ‘purists’, you just can’t compete with disc brakes.

That's crap.
Try using alloy rims rather than carbon and your braking on the big descents would be much better.

I’ve used pretty much every time of wheel and braking system over the past 20+ years on all different types of bikes.

I stand by my previous comment.


OP: Buy the Aeroad Disc mate, I’m trying to convince myself I don’t need one for a winter training bike Such good value for money.

mfin

So, OP has tried a completely different bike to the one he's considering, and putting all the gains he experienced down to aero properties alone. I don't understand how people get a bit of data then use it to attribute it to those properties which suit what marketing they've bought into. You might have got on a different non-aero bike and seen some increases, you just don't know (and it is quite possible).

Also, why worry about being reluctant on buying something because of where you think technology is going, your current bike you've only had for 3 years. You probably won't keep this one any longer.

cougie

If the madone was that much faster than your current bike it should have wiped the floor in the pro peleton. 1mph is huge.

Maybe you're too low on the canyon and it's hampering your power output.

gsk82

You clearly want the aeroad and are just looking to justify it. For the past couple of years I wanted a Bianchi Specialisima. There's no better justification than wanting one. You'll get one eventually anyway so stop waiting for someone else to justify it for you.

Re you seeing a huge difference with the Madone. I moved from a 2012 cf slx ultimate 9.0 and see a huge difference despite the bianchi also being a light weight, not aero bike. Don't put it all down to the frame being say 10% more aero. The bike accounts for 10 to 20% of air resistance. So at the very most that's a 2% overall saving. It could be as simple as it had tyres with lower rolling resistance.

But as I said, you clearly want one, so go get one if you have the money.

mallorcajeff

Exactly as above. Ive had a foil, and a cervelo s5 vwd and now got an aeroad. Only difference i coukd tell was that the cervelo was seriously bad at anything going uphill, the aeroad is one of the quickest bikes ive ridden (road bike) but at our level of riding i think youll find the benefits are minimal and make as much as no difference. Just buy what you like. I do and thats the best way to go. Stuff will only get dearer too so the sooner the better

cougie

OP hasn't been back in almost a month.

DeVlaeminck

A lot of money for a marginal aero advantage, for me it doesn't then make sense to buy it with non-aero discs.

pedalbasher

I'm back!

Thanks for the thoughts, appreciated. I've pulled the trigger and ordered the Aeroad. Figured it's a worthy upgrade in terms of tech (discs, new di2, aero frameset) and I can still sell the Ultimate for good whack which helps justify the purchase.

All reviews are excellent and whilst the aero gains are of course marginal, at least I'll be putting them to use with a loaded race season.

sloppyschleckonds

pedalbasher wrote:

All reviews are excellent and whilst the aero gains are of course marginal, at least I'll be putting them to use with a loaded race season.

British Cycling : disc brakes are banned in all domestic road and closed circuit racing

fenix

Pretty sure that's old news...

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about ... rom-2018-0

pedalbasher

DeVlaeminck wrote:

A lot of money for a marginal aero advantage, for me it doesn't then make sense to buy it with non-aero discs.

Errr, the discs cost 0.8 watts. That will be more than negated by better braking under all conditions etc. And also means I can run one wheelset for all races?

dorin.boca

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

pedalbasher wrote:

All reviews are excellent and whilst the aero gains are of course marginal, at least I'll be putting them to use with a loaded race season.

British Cycling : disc brakes are banned in all domestic road and closed circuit racing

Hi there, may I ask how did the Aroad felt and performed compared to the Ultimate? I have an ultimate that I totally love, super comfortable at double centuries, climbs excellent.
As I own 303 and 404 rims, I am limited to rim brake version.

My reason for upgrade: love the cherry red color

Many thanks for your reply,
Dorin