Light Alloy clincher wheelset advice

PeteK25

beanstalk wrote:

PeteK25 wrote:

I also had considered the Fulcrum Racing Zero's and the Hunt Aero Wide's. Ended up buying ROL Race SL's which have been amazing (very stiff, corner well, and very stable going downhill). They come in at 1555g which is probably in the upper limit of what you're considering.

https://www.rolwheels.com/wheels/wheel/race-sl

What did you pay for them?

$675 USD or approx £500.

beanstalk

Seems a bit expensive.

Hendrix2430

very informative thread... thanks for contributing!

bmxboy10

Ksyrium Pro Exalith will be a good place to start. Awesome ride and stopping Power.

Hendrix2430

Interesting, been looking at having a new Open Pro rim build.

In terms of quality/stiffness/weight, how would a 2017 Open Pro with CX ray spokes and quality hub (Hope RS4 for example) compare to the stock Ksyirum Pro?

Cheers

nicklong

Prime carbon RR-28 or RR-38, 1414-1450g, under £450 with a BC discount.

Was in the same boat as you, went with the RR-28s to complement my 41mm depth Reynolds wheels. Really impressed with the braking, no issues in the winter so far. Standard Novatec hubs and pillar spokes so if anything goes wrong it will be pretty easy to fix and maintain.

cycleclinic

the open pro is a wider rim. the open pro is a light rim it is quite stiff . Given the spoke count you could have a wheel that is at least as stiff is not stiffer than the krysiums. you can place the wheel you have been thinking about on the rear end end cap and heave down on the rim and there is little give in the wheel. It is not an "aero rims" though. The only difference I can find between the mavic op ust rim and the Kinlin XR22T is a few grams and looks. The mavic rim is funky looking but not a better rim. Tubeless tyre fitting is similar to the kinlins, you still need levers.

you need to decide what you want though. Compared to a sapim race or force spoke with an alloy nipple to a CX-ray with allow nipple you will save 45g on the rear wheel. Given the cost of CX-rays and the 394g weight of the hope RS4 hubs you have to ask are they worth it. you could also ask given they are only 30g lighter than the miche primato's are the hopes actually worth it given the significant extra cost.

A 24F/28R mavic op UST wheelset with CX-ray/brass nipples and Hope RS4's should be 1515g but with sapim race or force/alloy nipples weight is 1560g and the rear wheel will be stiffer radially, latterally and torsionally.

Brass nipples adds 36g but should be avoided with Cx-rays. brass nipples cause more twist which is a problem with CX-rays due to how thin they are.

Hendrix2430

Thanks - read more about the Open Pro rim... seems like the new was made to accommodate only 28mm tyres (and recommend sub 85psi too). Strange by Mavic! Or is there another new Open Pro rim other than the ksyrium lookalike Open Pro UST...

Hanners

I'm using the new open pro ust rim on dt Swiss 350 hubs and revolution spokes. The wheelset feels very smooth I'm running 25mm tubeless on them with no issues at all. Max psi of 87 recommended ,you don't need more on a tubeless set up. I think the 28mm tyre recommendation is only form them to push the wide internal width I'm sure you could run 23s if you wanted with no issues.

cycleclinic

no that not true the mavic rim is 19mm internal width. they will take 23mm and 25mm tyres just fine. The 87 psi limit is more mavic CYA. tyres can be inflated to higher pressures but it actually depends on the bead of the tyre some tyre hook in more securely than others.

With tubeless tyres you wont be using more than 87 psi anyway even with clinchers and tubes 87 psi is not a limit that will cause limitations.

Mavic are making a rod for there own back with there warnings. people seem to take there recomendations so seriously.

Also if you are looking at the Hope RS4's look at Campagnolo record hubs, they can come with a steel shimano body and even with the high spoke count the resulting wheel is not heavy if lighter spokes are used.

you do need to decide what kind of wheel you want. one for racing that eeks out every last advantage or just a nice reliable set for riding.

Also the way you are looking at this OP will have you going round in circles. you are thinking "quality" when I think you mean reliable. Taking the two terms will lead you to HED rims and Chris King for quality or to Kinlin, H plus Son, Mavic and Miche or shimano 105 hubs for reliable. So be careful about the term you use to guide your choices.

Also OP please dont start thinking that one rims is going to be significantly better than another. There have been a couple of ropy rims like the Pacenti SL23 V1 and V2 which are no longer made but out of the rims currently made there is really one that is bad. they are all as round as each other and how stiff they are is governed by the cross section. Take two different rims but with similar cross sections and as if by magic they are about as stiff as each other. Look at the rims cross section. For it to be stiff it needs to be 24mm wide or wider (19mm or 20mm internal width will result) and at least 22mm deep. Deeper is stiffer though and means lower spoke counts are . You will find as if by magic that all of the rims with that width feel fairly similar to each other.

The same applies to hubs to a certain extent but you have to look at the hub dimensions, bearing size and placement, pawl arrangement, ratchet ring tooth count. What you cant tell is how precisely the bearing seats are made in a particular hub which may account for the reported shorter bearing life in some hubs compared to others.

So avoid going round in circles. What make a good wheel is pretty simple. Stiff means reliable this comes from the rim cross section, spoke count and spoke cross section and hub bracing angles. Spoke well one is not really better than another if they are double butted butted. Triple butted spokes offer greater fatigue resistance at the elbow where it matters. Stress near the hub flange is the highest. Then there is a hub. Big bearing help reliability (6803, 6902, 6001 are all good sixes to have for cartridge bearings), stiff axles (steel or big 17mm alloy) help reduce abnormal loads on the bearings and bearings that spaced wide apart help too but there is only so much that can be done here with 130mm rear spacing but some hubs put the NDS bearing too far inboard due to the placement of the NDS flange but again we are talking +/- a small handful of mm so not much in it. Hubs with the widest flange spacing give the stiffest wheels. freehub pawl count matters and it it does not. The more pawls and the higher the ratchet tooth count the louder the hub. Also the more teeth on the ratchet ring the weaker it is (i.e the lower the load required to break a tooth or damage a pawl), this can be overcome by adding more pawls. So the Hope rs4 has a 44T ratchet ring which means a 4T pawl ring is required to stop things breaking. This results in less rotation before engagement which makes no practical difference to your cycling but it helps Hope market there hubs.

So don't go around in circles OP.

Hendrix2430

Thanks all, very informative! Could you run regular 25mm tyres and inner tubes on this rim? Or do you need another Open Pro rim (not USP)?

Hendrix2430

By the way @thecyclecinic, you're absolutely correct : i am (was?) running in circles sadly...

prhymeate

Did you settle on a wheelset Hendrix? I'm in the same boat at the moment... Trying to decide between DT Swiss RR21, Ksyrium Pro, Hunt Aero Wide and Ultegras.

Hendrix2430

Hi, I ended up getting some Magic Ksyrium Pros - got a great deal on some which I couldn't pass up! I must say...lovely lovely lovely wheels!

prhymeate

Hendrix2430 wrote:

Hi, I ended up getting some Magic Ksyrium Pros - got a great deal on some which I couldn't pass up! I must say...lovely lovely lovely wheels!

Yea, they do look like good value. Slightly swayed away from Mavic as the reason I'm looking for new wheels is that the rim on my current Mavics cracked and am tempted to try something else. Swaying towards DT Swiss, but glad to hear you're happy with them.

beanstalk

Prhymeate wrote:

Hendrix2430 wrote:

Slightly swayed away from Mavic as the reason I'm looking for new wheels is that the rim on my current Mavics cracked and am tempted to try something else.

Then try something else!
This is a no-brainer.

bendertherobot

Hendrix2430 wrote:

Hi, I ended up getting some Magic Ksyrium Pros - got a great deal on some which I couldn't pass up! I must say...lovely lovely lovely wheels!

The Exalith ones or normal? I've just got the former, a mere £575...

Hendrix2430

The normal ones...