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1x common on new 2018 bikes, why?

kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
edited December 2017 in MTB general
Had a look around online and at the new Voodoo range. They have gone with 1x 10 for the Hoodoo and 1 x 11 for the Bizango. I dont get the benifit of the reduced gearing especially for more budget spec bikes. Are the manufacturers just following the latest fashion at the cost of less ideal gear ranges and more tired legs?!
Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
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  • JGTRJGTR Posts: 1,404
    Less weight, cheaper, frees up space on bar for dropper lever, more flexibility for frame design, less hassle with setup, one less thing to concern yourself with when riding and don’t need the range of a 2x or 3x on a trail bike. Plus you can get the same range as a 2x with 1x so why wouldn’t you?

    If you are doing long distances and need both the high and low gears of a 2x or 3x then buy a XC bike with a 2x or 3x or a gravel/cyclocross bike.
  • 02GF7402GF74 Posts: 1,294
    It's the latest trend, 29 in wheels and 1x11 or 1x12 gears,, 1x10 being cheap end.

    Of course there is a compromise as said in that the range is lower (1x12 addresses that a bit) but generally I find the simplicity outweighs the lack of gears.

    And manufacturers can charge more for less.
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    The 1 x systems are lighter and less to think about etc. Alot of customers buying around the 5 to 600 price point are more likely going to be weekend riders than xc racers and would be better off with the easier gears?
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,301
    Front mech setup is one of the worst parts of setup that bike retailers usually get wrong, and can be an irritating pain for non-mechanically minded individuals to get right. With the range of decent cassettes at the back, less build time etc it seems a no-brainer to me to build that way.

    Though when 45 year old dad turns up at the shop trying to buy a bike with "loads" of gears for his teenage son, because that's what they were used to when they were a lad, it might be a USP that doesn't actually generate sales at that level!
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #3s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • Ahh, the days of boasting to your mates that you had 21 gears and they only had 18... :mrgreen:

    1x is better than 2x/3x, with the 10/11/12 speed cassettes now you've got nearly the same range, and they're simpler, lighter, catch less mud, the chains stay on better.

    In fact a 2x system on a bike now would put me off buying it. The lowest gears are plenty to allow you to sit and spin up steep climbs, and if you want to pedal to add speed when in the top gear riding offroad then you're braver than me! Ok on the road they'll be top speed limited, but no-one buys a £600+ MTB to ride loads of tarmac, you ride on the road to get to the trails.
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    Ok, I am a 47 year old dad....and I was very proud of my ten speed Raleigh Winner in the early 80's!
    However, if I were to compare with the new 2018 Bizango 1 x set up 32 chain set with an 11 42 cassette with my older 2 x 10 Bizango Id have to remove my 11 36 rear cassette and refit an 11 29 (if they made one) to acheive a lowest gear equally as hard as the 1 by set up. Still doesnt make sense to me. I think Sram Eagle 12 probably has the range covered but the other 1 by set ups dont. I guess its a choice of either giving your left thumb an easier ride or your legs.
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    I'm older than you and rode a 1x9 using a conventional 11:34 Cassette for nearly 4 years, now running 1x10 to get a higher top gear. Each chainring only really adds 2-3 gears as the rest are overlaps.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    When it gets claggy and i needed the inner ring i couldn't use it because it is so covered in censored that the chain won't run over it. So I removed it. Never used anyway.

    I would not consider a 3x or 3x drive train now. They are retro and fone on a period bike. One of the main advantage apart from a ring that can't get clogged is you don't get any front mis shifting issues. Gear range is pretty similar and as there is no front mech tyres can get wider.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    I expect my next purchase may well be a bike with a 1x set up then. Sometime in the future.....
    Or by then its all gone a bit e bike?
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    kirkee wrote:
    ...
    Or by then its all gone a bit e bike?
    Wash your mouth out...
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

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    Parktools
  • The Rookie wrote:
    I'm older than you and rode a 1x9 using a conventional 11:34 Cassette for nearly 4 years, now running 1x10 to get a higher top gear. Each chainring only really adds 2-3 gears as the rest are overlaps.

    That.

    A quick look at a ratio comparison chart will tell you that most modern 1x11 or 1x12 set ups have more or less the same range (and certainly the "most ridden" range) of gears as 3x set ups of 10 years ago or 2x set ups of 5 years ago.
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
    Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
    Allround - Cotic Solaris
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    To get back to original post. The point being if I were to buy the latest 2018 version of my existing 2x 2016 Bizango, the 300 meter 20% avg climb to get to the start of a trail on the weekend would have been alot more difficult if I only had a 22 x 29 sprocket lowest ratio. 22 29 is the same as the 2018 one by low gear of 32 x 42. They are going with the latest sales trend thats got a benefit of simplicity but lacks genuine versatility. The modern train of thought in cycling is to spin lower gears. The bike industry just sells customers the bike they want to sell, not the bike customers actually need. Fashion trends equals more sales.
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    The Rookie wrote:
    I'm older than you and rode a 1x9 using a conventional 11:34 Cassette for nearly 4 years, now running 1x10 to get a higher top gear. Each chainring only really adds 2-3 gears as the rest are overlaps.

    That.

    A quick look at a ratio comparison chart will tell you that most modern 1x11 or 1x12 set ups have more or less the same range (and certainly the "most ridden" range) of gears as 3x set ups of 10 years ago or 2x set ups of 5 years ago.
    You got it - 'more or less'. More or less doesn't have it covered and is lacking by virtue of being 'more or less'.
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • JGTRJGTR Posts: 1,404
    The bike industry just sells customers the bike they want to sell, not the bike customers actually need. Fashion trends equals more sales.

    OMG :shock: Really, wow, holy censored .....so I didn’t actually need that 1x12 setup that I pawned my wife’s jewellery for?

    I’m part true, the industry is driven by trends and marketing but I’m pretty happy with the bike that the industry sold me so is it that big of a problem?

    Reality is, if your feel the need for 2x, the industry will sell you one of those, happy days, we’re all winners :D
  • kirkee wrote:
    The bike industry just sells customers the bike they want to sell, not the bike customers actually need. Fashion trends equals more sales.
    Nope, it's actually the other way around.

    The single chainring thing was started by the riders, obviously it started with DH riders and spread from there, but way back in 2009/2010 a lot of riders were using 1x9 or 1x10 systems.

    I doubt you'll find a single bike from that era that came with less than 3 chainrings as standard!!! SLX, XT were 3x in 2010, XTR was 2x or 3x, 1x off the shelf systems didn't exist back then. The bike industry is actually giving the riders what they want. If people coped back then with 1x9 systems I'm sure we can cope now with 1x11 and 1x12 with the same range as a double chainring set up.

    Maybe in the days of 7 or 8 speed cassettes you needed 2/3 chainrings, but not now.
  • kirkeekirkee Posts: 369
    No, the bike industry are selling budget model bikes with a compromised 1x gear system giving less versatility than the previous models that were 2x. If they offered build options to have a 1 or 2 x then I wouldnt have started the post. The choice is narrowing, its being decided for us. Horses for courses, but theres a reason why SRAM invested and offer 10 x 50 cassettes that are 12 speed.
    Caveat - I buy and ride cheap, however, I reserve the right to advise on expensive kit that I have never actually used and possibly never will
  • JGTRJGTR Posts: 1,404
    tallpaul_s wrote:
    kirkee wrote:
    The bike industry just sells customers the bike they want to sell, not the bike customers actually need. Fashion trends equals more sales.
    Nope, it's actually the other way around.

    The single chainring thing was started by the riders, obviously it started with DH riders and spread from there, but way back in 2009/2010 a lot of riders were using 1x9 or 1x10 systems.

    I.

    Maybe.....or it’s just that DH is seen as cool, cool sells bikes therefore it’s adopted by bike companies to sell us stuff we don’t need???
  • Websta24Websta24 Posts: 162
    I've recently taken delivery of my first MTB in many years. It has a 2x11 drive train and i must say that so far i've not used the small ring once.

    It has a 11-42 at the rear and 34/24 upfront....i cannot imagine ever needing to use 24/42 so there is little point of keeping it so i will probably switch it over to 1x at the earliest oppertunity
  • 02GF7402GF74 Posts: 1,294
    ^^^^^that's mad. Swap out the two rings for 32 or 30t. If you don't ride up steep hills then you may get away with 34t.
  • kajjalkajjal Posts: 3,380
    My 29” xc hardtail is 24/38 and 11-36. As I ride longer distances on natural trails this gives me a wider range of closer together gears with good top end speed and a low gears for long steep climbs.

    1 x 11 etc. just doesn’t suit my needs and is too much of a compromise. Get the gearing you need for your fitness and the trails you ride and forget trends or marketing.

    My mid 1990’s xc hard tail has v brakes, elastomer forks and 3 x 8 gearing. I ride it happily in the Irish mountains when visiting relatives. The 3 x 8 gearing takes a few minutes to get used to and then you don’t really notice it. The gear changes are very smooth. Not having disc brakes and the bike being a lot twitchier than modern bikes makes for interesting riding.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    I presume maths isn't a strong point?
    24:36 your lowest gear is 1:1.5
    If you had a SRAM Eagle with a 50t, a 32t front would give you a 1:56.
    You'd lose a fraction at the top end going from 3.45:1 to 3.2:1.

    I've never found the 36t on a ten useable with a granny anyway, just not going fast enough to balance, so you could use a 34t and get the same top gear.
  • doomanicdoomanic Posts: 238
    kajjal wrote:
    My 29” xc hardtail is 24/38 and 11-36.
    So is my 27.5" 160mm travel enduro bike. I'm old, fat and unfit and I don't use the small ring. I'm not claining I ride up Snowdon, but there are a few slight gradients at the FoD that I tackle.
  • kajjalkajjal Posts: 3,380
    edited November 2017
    The Rookie wrote:
    I presume maths isn't a strong point?
    24:36 your lowest gear is 1:1.5
    If you had a SRAM Eagle with a 50t, a 32t front would give you a 1:56.
    You'd lose a fraction at the top end going from 3.45:1 to 3.2:1.

    I've never found the 36t on a ten useable with a granny anyway, just not going fast enough to balance, so you could use a 34t and get the same top gear.

    What is 24 / 36 ?

    (a) 1.5

    (b) 0.6667

    :wink:
  • kajjalkajjal Posts: 3,380
    doomanic wrote:
    kajjal wrote:
    My 29” xc hardtail is 24/38 and 11-36.
    So is my 27.5" 160mm travel enduro bike. I'm old, fat and unfit and I don't use the small ring. I'm not claining I ride up Snowdon, but there are a few slight gradients at the FoD that I tackle.

    Wheel size also has an effect, my bike has 29" wheels which means for the same performance you need slightly easier gears. It also means compared to small wheeled bikes for me it grips better when climbing. My 29" bike will climb trails the 26" slips out on.

    Thats why having the range of gear ratios from 0.67 to 3.45 is very usable for my fitness and where I ride.

    The 50t example above Rookie gives has a range of 0.64 to 3.2 is a poor compromise for my riding. He explains he could not use my lowest gear so loses out straight away at the climbing gears of 50t cassette. Then the top end is slow meaning for me a big compromise. Also he does not allow for wheel size either.

    As I said get what suits you best and enjoy the riding :D
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    kajjal wrote:
    The Rookie wrote:
    I presume maths isn't a strong point?
    24:36 your lowest gear is 1:1.5
    If you had a SRAM Eagle with a 50t, a 32t front would give you a 1:56.
    You'd lose a fraction at the top end going from 3.45:1 to 3.2:1.

    I've never found the 36t on a ten useable with a granny anyway, just not going fast enough to balance, so you could use a 34t and get the same top gear.

    What is 24 / 36 ?

    (a) 1.5

    (b) 0.6667

    :wink:
    24:36 is the same ratio as 1:1.5, not hard to figure.
  • kajjalkajjal Posts: 3,380
    The Rookie wrote:
    kajjal wrote:
    The Rookie wrote:
    I presume maths isn't a strong point?
    24:36 your lowest gear is 1:1.5
    If you had a SRAM Eagle with a 50t, a 32t front would give you a 1:56.
    You'd lose a fraction at the top end going from 3.45:1 to 3.2:1.

    I've never found the 36t on a ten useable with a granny anyway, just not going fast enough to balance, so you could use a 34t and get the same top gear.

    What is 24 / 36 ?

    (a) 1.5

    (b) 0.6667

    :wink:
    24:36 is the same ratio as 1:1.5, not hard to figure.

    :D , getting there.....
  • 3x sucked because the small ring was too small and the big one too big to be useful and the shifting wasn't that good so peopled ended up just riding it like a 1x.

    With Shimano 2x and rhythm rear cog spacing, front shifting is easy to set up, reliable, and smooth. Gears are close enough to find the right cruising gear in the rear.

    Why the move to 1x? Probably more noobs out there buying bikes according to what they read by the 1x evangelists on internet forums, who basically are people easily confused by a front shifter.
  • For a lot of people 1x11 etc is fine. However there will always be people where it isn't fine. All depends on where / how long you ride for / whatbsort of riding you do.

    My new bike in May came with Sram 1x11 - it's got a 30t chainring with a 10-42 cassette on it. I regularly use the 42t sprocket when I go to places like Cwmcarn with a big steepish hill on the main trail - but can't say I've used the 10t very much. So I'm pretty happy with the spread of gears and no left shifter means I can run a shifter style dropper lever.

    I dont do long xc type slogs though - I guess I may think differently if I did.

    Sram GX Eagle would give me more range and I could run either a bigger front chainring to get more top end speed, or could keep the same one to have more skinny up hill options. For me I don't need hat though so I'll stick to my GX 1x11.
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