New wheel rim depth

LWLondon

So, I’m looking at a set of carbon wheels (and yes I know the gain from then almost definitely isn’t worth the price), but I had a question about rim depth!

My options at the same price point are 40/40, 60/60 or a combination of 40/60 (60 at the back)

While i appreciate there won’t be much tangible difference, I’ve got the choice so why not.

My riding is largely casual/training, with a number of crits coming up. Ideally once I get thru cat4 I can go for the flatter road races

w00dster

As gets said a lot on here, in crits or the peloton there is no, or very small gain from aerodynamics.
In crits, especially the ones i race, there tends to be short sharp hills, corners with sprints, slowing down, speeding up to a sprint to hold the wheel etc.
Some courses are old airfields, car tracks etc so can be exposed to wind.
60/60 for me would be unnecessary. I had different wheels for different conditions, but 40mm depth for me covers most bases. I have vision metron 40mm clinchers. I also have a set of very light 35mm and also a set of 50mm. 90% of the time and I'm happy with the 40s. In the wet i use my 50mm or an old set of wheels, just so i have the more confident braking with the alloy track. Some of the hairpins will mean you want confidence that you will slow enough but without being too grabby that you lose too much soeed.
For crits specifically i would be looking at lightweight first then aero second. You will be sprinting, while its all about the rider, positioning etc, small gains all help.

Matthewfalle

60/60 tubular. Anything else is just weak. Fits all bills, does all purposes, looks the best, sounds the best.

It's a bit like going back to TDNFNATN's house after a hot date and saying that you aren't really into lab coats and can you have a nice camomile tea instead.

imposter2.0

Despite the random comments above - aero is largely irrelevant in UK airfield, town centre or closed circuit crits. If you have the legs, you can win on practically anything. Some of the Team GB/ODA juniors used to rock up to my local midweek crits and clean up while riding their training wheels. If you do badly in next season's crits, it won't be because of your wheel choice.

StillGoing

Yes, well moving on from the rambling poster :roll: Personally, I'd go 35s, 38s or 40. I had a 38F and 50R combo at one time, which was ok suffering no side wind gusts on the front, but still had that aero look.

philclubman

If going for carbon, then my view is 60mm tubs too. If going for mid depth clinchers then Kinlin xr31Ts are great (aluminium).

60mm rims will look ace.

sloppyschleckonds

I agree with Imposter & Matthewfalle

If you are lacking power, or insecure about not having 40/50/60mm carbon wheels then fill yer boots

Whatever you buy make sure they are tubeless and have a 23/ 25mm wide rim ideally with an enhanced braking track.

HTH

TIA

w00dster

Dont really understand the benefit of 60mm wheels for cat4 crits. Its eyeballs out sprinting or sitting in the pack. Heavy braking, sprinting, short sharp hill, sit in the pack.
Tubeless i agree. But dont really see the benefit of adding extra weight and potentially impacted by wind gusts on the wide open crit circuits.
Happy to listen to the positives from those who think they are beneficial in crit racing terms.

nicklong

If you see yourself as a soloist or getting into long breaks, go for the 60s. Likewise if you want to dabble in TTs go for the 60s.

Best all rounder, 40mm.

Crits, as stiff and light as possible. I've just got a pair of light & cheap 28mm rims for hill climbs and crits, to go with my 41mm Reynolds Assault general race wheels.

LWLondon

I swear when I peaked in the other day there were twicer as many replies?!

Thanks for all the feedback! Interesting noone recommended the 40/60, but that was what the shop really seemed keen on! (built to order, so not like they have spare stock).

Definitely some food for thought. I see the point on crits, I guess my original thinking was that while Crits will be good, I'd liek to move onto road races eventually and that the 40/60 may be a good combo. Now thginking maybe 40/40 is the one!

mfin

LWLondon wrote:

I swear when I peaked in the other day there were twicer as many replies?!

Thanks for all the feedback! Interesting noone recommended the 40/60, but that was what the shop really seemed keen on! (built to order, so not like they have spare stock).

Definitely some food for thought. I see the point on crits, I guess my original thinking was that while Crits will be good, I'd liek to move onto road races eventually and that the 40/60 may be a good combo. Now thginking maybe 40/40 is the one!

You won't notice a rats arse worth of difference between a 60 and a 40 on the back in performance terms. So forget it, they will also appeal to less people when you want to sell them because you're convinced you should upgrade to something else.

So, 40/40 is fine.

As per other people up thread, deep sections not needed for what you are doing with them, they won't make a difference to how well you fair, but maybe if your existing wheels are heavy and crap and the new ones you buy are lighter and stiffer and better then that alone will make a bit of a difference. If it makes you happy buying them though, why not get some 40/40 wheels.

It's more important to find the right ones, a crap heavy set of deep sections that aren't actually that aero will be worse than a good shallow section really. Most people don't care, cos what they really want is "the look", and they convince themselves of the benefits or the need.

nicklong

Although, "the look" will make you go faster purely from a psychological placebo perspective!

cycleclinic

the whole shallow rim on the front and deeper on the back is also bogus. How stable your bike is in cross winds with deep wheel has more to do with rim profile and tyre width relative to rim width than rim depth. With the right profile you dont need a shallower rim on the front.
Also the front wheel has the highest drag so you actually want that to be deeper although in fairness the difference in CdA of the 40mm deep and 50mm deep rim head on is pretty small.

w00dster

nicklong wrote:

Although, "the look" will make you go faster purely from a psychological placebo perspective!

And don't forget the sound, woosh, woosh - that will also scare your rivals into submission.

I do love the sound of deep rims.

daniel_b

w00dster wrote:

nicklong wrote:

Although, "the look" will make you go faster purely from a psychological placebo perspective!

And don't forget the sound, woosh, woosh - that will also scare your rivals into submission.

I do love the sound of deep rims.

Do 40's still give a hearty whoosh, whoosh?

And do you have to go tubeless to get a decent weight - the heftiness of them (relative to my 1370g clinchers) always makes me not complete a purchase.

Matthewfalle

60s give the best whooooosh whoooooosh ever (so potent in fact that it has been known to steal the souls of people riding lesser wheels) and combine all the benefits of all the other wheels into one ego boosting cool as hell looking bicycle.

Boonen rode 60s. Dopestrong didn't. Word on the street is that Mugabe rides 40s. Say no more.

w00dster

Ah, you cant put me and Mugabe on the same wheels.
My 40s make a little whoosh, not as impressive as my 50's, but if you listen closely you can hear it.
I used to have a set of planet x tubulars back in yesteryear, they made an awesome sound, felt great, but heavy as a brick and scary in a crosswind. Looked and sounded awesome so scientifically proven to give a rider an additional 10 watts (thats not true...)
My 50's last season weighed 1440 grams. Tubeless compatible but i preferred them with latex tubes. Still light though. My 40s are reasonably heavy for a clincher but they are on a disc brake bike so the entire bike is heavy. Not sure of any real quantifiable speed or aero benefit, but they look good.

daniel_b

Matthewfalle wrote:

60s give the best whooooosh whoooooosh ever (so potent in fact that it has been known to steal the souls of people riding lesser wheels) and combine all the benefits of all the other wheels into one ego boosting cool as hell looking bicycle.

Boonen rode 60s. Dopestrong didn't. Word on the street is that Mugabe rides 40s. Say no more.

So 60's are dictator wheels, is that we are saying?

I have some cheap as chips, and potentially made from chinese potatoes, 60mm carbon clinchers which I must have bought some 3-4 years ago, if not more. They will only take up to 10spd, and are now destined for my still to be built TT bike.

Dopestrong didn't need the whoosh from his wheels, he had that from his transfusions.

w00dster wrote:

Ah, you cant put me and Mugabe on the same wheels.
My 40s make a little whoosh, not as impressive as my 50's, but if you listen closely you can hear it.
I used to have a set of planet x tubulars back in yesteryear, they made an awesome sound, felt great, but heavy as a brick and scary in a crosswind. Looked and sounded awesome so scientifically proven to give a rider an additional 10 watts (thats not true...)
My 50's last season weighed 1440 grams. Tubeless compatible but i preferred them with latex tubes. Still light though. My 40s are reasonably heavy for a clincher but they are on a disc brake bike so the entire bike is heavy. Not sure of any real quantifiable speed or aero benefit, but they look good.

Your 50's 'last' season - so you sold them?
1440 sounds entirely reasonable, what brand and model were they out of interest?

I keep liking the idea of some 40's on my Scott, but it's currently sub 7kg I think, and it somehow seems a backwards step - would be nice to try a set though, and see if I can detect any benefit on longer rides.

w00dster

Bontrager Aelous 5 D3. In tubular they weigh in about 1150 grams. Mine were borrowed and returned.
I had a Trek Emonda SLR so messed about getting the weight as low as i could, thats been sold.
I'm actually thinking of getting a CAAD or a Supersix for next season.....

lakesluddite

LWLondon wrote:

I swear when I peaked in the other day there were twicer as many replies?!

Thanks for all the feedback! Interesting noone recommended the 40/60, but that was what the shop really seemed keen on! (built to order, so not like they have spare stock).

Definitely some food for thought. I see the point on crits, I guess my original thinking was that while Crits will be good, I'd liek to move onto road races eventually and that the 40/60 may be a good combo. Now thginking maybe 40/40 is the one!

Have you seen the Black Friday deal on Prime RR 50mm clinchers? RRP £730 (yeah, right) down to £500.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/prime-rr-50-car ... heelset-1/

I couldn't resist the bargain, so order some last week from Wiggle. They are also the same at Chain Reaction, but there's no BC discount on them hence using Wiggle. The grey decals are actually more subtle than the photo shows, they blend into the black carbon really nicely. I still have them in my office at work, and can't help taking a peak about three times a day!

Matthewfalle

Should make a cool shoooommm shooooommmm noise as well. Good buy that man.

daniel_b

LakesLuddite wrote:

LWLondon wrote:

I swear when I peaked in the other day there were twicer as many replies?!

Thanks for all the feedback! Interesting noone recommended the 40/60, but that was what the shop really seemed keen on! (built to order, so not like they have spare stock).

Definitely some food for thought. I see the point on crits, I guess my original thinking was that while Crits will be good, I'd liek to move onto road races eventually and that the 40/60 may be a good combo. Now thginking maybe 40/40 is the one!

Have you seen the Black Friday deal on Prime RR 50mm clinchers? RRP £730 (yeah, right) down to £500.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/prime-rr-50-car ... heelset-1/

I couldn't resist the bargain, so order some last week from Wiggle. They are also the same at Chain Reaction, but there's no BC discount on them hence using Wiggle. The grey decals are actually more subtle than the photo shows, they blend into the black carbon really nicely. I still have them in my office at work, and can't help taking a peak about three times a day!

I am confused by this bit, has something changed with BC discount?
It always used to be you were given one code on a purchase of £99 or over to use at CRC, and diddly squat for Wiggle.
Has this reversed, or swapped about?
If anything, I was hoping they would find a code to use on both sites, accepting they are now the same company ostensibly.

lakesluddite

Daniel B wrote:

LakesLuddite wrote:

LWLondon wrote:

I swear when I peaked in the other day there were twicer as many replies?!

Thanks for all the feedback! Interesting noone recommended the 40/60, but that was what the shop really seemed keen on! (built to order, so not like they have spare stock).

Definitely some food for thought. I see the point on crits, I guess my original thinking was that while Crits will be good, I'd liek to move onto road races eventually and that the 40/60 may be a good combo. Now thginking maybe 40/40 is the one!

Have you seen the Black Friday deal on Prime RR 50mm clinchers? RRP £730 (yeah, right) down to £500.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/prime-rr-50-car ... heelset-1/

I couldn't resist the bargain, so order some last week from Wiggle. They are also the same at Chain Reaction, but there's no BC discount on them hence using Wiggle. The grey decals are actually more subtle than the photo shows, they blend into the black carbon really nicely. I still have them in my office at work, and can't help taking a peak about three times a day!

I am confused by this bit, has something changed with BC discount?
It always used to be you were given one code on a purchase of £99 or over to use at CRC, and diddly squat for Wiggle.
Has this reversed, or swapped about?
If anything, I was hoping they would find a code to use on both sites, accepting they are now the same company ostensibly.

No, it's simply because the Black Friday deals are not covered by the BC discount. This from the BC website (the last bit):

Terms and conditions

Codes are single use each month and linked to your British Cycling membership account
You must first log in to use your discount code
Minimum spend of £99 (being the basket value of product before the voucher is applied)
All transactions must be in GBP
Voucher code not valid when buying gift vouchers
Your unique discount code expires at the end of each calendar month
New codes will be issued at the start of each month
British Cycling and Chain Reaction Cycles reserve the right to end this promo at any time
Your discount voucher cannot be used in conjunction with another discount voucher or offer
Voucher has no cash value
Discount not applicable on top of Black Friday deals

Therefore I went to Wiggle not because of BC discount (there isn't any), but the price was exactly the same. I could have gone to CRC, but as it's the same company now it makes no difference.

daniel_b

Never noticed that before - as an experiment (I haven't completed the purchase) it certainly accepted my code though:



Unless it would error at checkout or something.

lakesluddite

Daniel B wrote:

Never noticed that before - as an experiment (I haven't completed the purchase) it certainly accepted my code though:



Unless it would error at checkout or something.

I owe you a pint Daniel, you've just saved me £50! Set up a return for the Wiggle pair, and successfully ordered from CRC with BC discount working now. This forum rocks!

daniel_b

LakesLuddite wrote:

I owe you a pint Daniel, you've just saved me £50! Set up a return for the Wiggle pair, and successfully ordered from CRC with BC discount working now. This forum rocks!

Ah good stuff, I always tend to give it a try, and see what happens!

This forum is rather excellent, though it has probably cost me signficantly more money than it has saved me if you get my drift!