Best Wheelest for Around £400

Kenb1889

Hi,
I am looking to buy some New Wheels and wanted some advice on the Best Wheelsets around for approx £400.

I have been looking at Mavic & Fulcrum wheelsets but not sure which would be best wheelset for me.

I and a Sportive rider and weigh approx 82kg and love to climb so want wheels that will be good for Sportive usually between 50 to 100 miles and good climbing wheels.

Regards

Ken

trivial_poursuivant

Can’t go wrong with Campag Zonda 2 way fit

mrb123

http://www.stradawheels.co.uk/product/sportive-wheels/

How about these? The new Mavic Open Pro rims handbuilt with some nice, light hubs.

arlowood

Have a look at the handbuilt range offered by Malcolm at Cycleclinic

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collection ... -wheelsets

One example in your budget could be the new Mavic Open Pro UST on Miche Primato hubs - comes in at 350

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collection ... e-wheelset

I have a set built by Malcolm with H Plus Son Archetype rims on Miche Primato hubs and they have been faultless. Plenty of other forumites will vouch for his wheel building capabilities.

At least with handbuilts you can have repairs and servicing done easily with no weird machine built set-ups that defy fixing at a reasonable cost.

If you're determined to by off the shelf the the Zonda's are a good shout.

shiznit76

Cero AR24, very light (1462g) and now selling at £189,

Just bought a set a week ago and very impressed

https://www.cycledivision.co.uk/cero-ar ... elset-2017

chadders81

Fulcrum 3 or Campag Zondas. You'll have great wheels and cash left over.

Tiesetrotter

If you go for a wheel builder then after you have worn the rims out it's a repair job not a new wheel.

https://dcrwheels.co.uk/custom-wheelset ... estions-2/

trivial_poursuivant

Tiesetrotter wrote:

If you go for a wheel builder then after you have worn the rims out it's a repair job not a new wheel.

https://dcrwheels.co.uk/custom-wheelset ... estions-2/

If I can use the above website as an example. They offer wheels that look good at a lower price point - but the hubs are terrible. In nearly all wheels, the vast majority of the value is the hubs. Hand built wheels on crap hubs are still crap. If you want a serious set with quality hubs like DTSwiss then they rise is cost substantially. For the price you are, more often than not, getting a better deal with factory wheels. I have wheels with 10s of 1000’s of km on them and the rims are still great. Reason being I buy better quality brake blocks instead of rock hard stock shimano ones . A set of swissstop pads will extend a Rims life by double or more.

I’m not saying hand-built wheels are all rubbish, but at this price point they make very little sense. Sure re-lace new rims onto expensive hubs but a set of novatech or DCR? Hardly worth the hassle imo. Campagnolo or Mavic offer much better quality in their factory built packages

ATYapton

Another recommendation for the cycle clinic. I’ve got the 30mm version with Miche hubs and they are excellent.

hypster

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Tiesetrotter wrote:

If you go for a wheel builder then after you have worn the rims out it's a repair job not a new wheel.

https://dcrwheels.co.uk/custom-wheelset ... estions-2/

If I can use the above website as an example. They offer wheels that look good at a lower price point - but the hubs are terrible. In nearly all wheels, the vast majority of the value is the hubs. Hand built wheels on crap hubs are still crap. If you want a serious set with quality hubs like DTSwiss then they rise is cost substantially. For the price you are, more often than not, getting a better deal with factory wheels. I have wheels with 10s of 1000’s of km on them and the rims are still great. Reason being I buy better quality brake blocks instead of rock hard stock shimano ones . A set of swissstop pads will extend a Rims life by double or more.

I’m not saying hand-built wheels are all rubbish, but at this price point they make very little sense. Sure re-lace new rims onto expensive hubs but a set of novatech or DCR? Hardly worth the hassle imo. Campagnolo or Mavic offer much better quality in their factory built packages

But handbuilts are not just about re-lacing worn out rims. I've had a couple of pairs of expensive factory wheels over the years, one set I broke a spoke in and the other pulled a spoke out of the rim. Because of the proprietary spokes and hubs in use it was actually cheaper in both cases to buy a new set of wheels. This is mainly why I started building my own wheels.

Novatec hubs are not rubbish either and the bearings are easy to replace when they do wear out. Your claim about Swissstop pads is also spurious. It's the crap on the road that causes the wear mainly, not the pad composition.

mfin

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Reason being I buy better quality brake blocks instead of rock hard stock shimano ones . A set of swissstop pads will extend a Rims life by double or more.

Not true. Current Shimano blocks are not significantly harder and no way on earth that a set of swisstop pads will extend a rim's life by double or more, that's whether looked at by common sense, basic physics, or experience. I'd doubt if you'd find anyone who'd agree with you let alone get any consensus.

What makes a hub crap?

OP. If you are looking for factory builts your budget falls at that point where spending less (Zonda etc) will be a great shout, but £400 is not enough to make the leap to anything that could be perceived in significantly better. Once you start breaking £500 you would have other good suggestions but it seems that £400 is a bit of wasteland with not many standout good candidates. That's my feeling anyway.

trivial_poursuivant

mfin wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Reason being I buy better quality brake blocks instead of rock hard stock shimano ones . A set of swissstop pads will extend a Rims life by double or more.

Not true. Current Shimano blocks are not significantly harder and no way on earth that a set of swisstop pads will extend a rim's life by double or more, that's whether looked at by common sense, basic physics, or experience. I'd doubt if you'd find anyone who'd agree with you let alone get any consensus.

What makes a hub crap?

OP. If you are looking for factory builts your budget falls at that point where spending less (Zonda etc) will be a great shout, but £400 is not enough to make the leap to anything that could be perceived in significantly better. Once you start breaking £500 you would have other good suggestions but it seems that £400 is a bit of wasteland with not many standout good candidates. That's my feeling anyway.

Swissstop yellow king are very soft and will extend Alu rims in all conditions. I know so cos I use them on all wheels, carbon and Alu.

As for hubs, a set of 20 quid novatech hubs are not a patch on a decent hub like DTSwiss or Chris King. The difference is massive. Spending money getting a set of rims laced to cheap hubs is a waste of money. Granted if you had top end hubs that cost a few hundred quid alone it’s worth it. Otherwise why bother?

hypster

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

As for hubs, a set of 20 quid novatech hubs are not a patch on a decent hub like DTSwiss or Chris King. The difference is massive. Spending money getting a set of rims laced to cheap hubs is a waste of money. Granted if you had top end hubs that cost a few hundred quid alone it’s worth it. Otherwise why bother?

I've got DTSwiss 240 hubs on one set of wheels and Novatec on several others. The only way you could possibly tell the difference between them blindfolded is the freehub on the DTSwiss is a lot noisier. Chris King are even worrse in that respect if you watch any of the YouTube videos on the subject. You might like that, I don't.

You're obviously a bike snob who likes to be seen riding expensive kit (nothing wrong with that) but please don't make the mistake of equating cost with quality. Especially in a case like this thread where the OP is asking for advice on a set of wheels with a £400 budget.

Also please let me know where I can get a set of Novatec hubs for £20? I'll gladly buy fifty pairs.

trivial_poursuivant

hypster wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

As for hubs, a set of 20 quid novatech hubs are not a patch on a decent hub like DTSwiss or Chris King. The difference is massive. Spending money getting a set of rims laced to cheap hubs is a waste of money. Granted if you had top end hubs that cost a few hundred quid alone it’s worth it. Otherwise why bother?

I've got DTSwiss 240 hubs on one set of wheels and Novatec on several others. The only way you could possibly tell the difference between them blindfolded is the freehub on the DTSwiss is a lot noisier. Chris King are even worrse in that respect if you watch any of the YouTube videos on the subject. You might like that, I don't.

You're obviously a bike snob who likes to be seen riding expensive kit (nothing wrong with that) but please don't make the mistake of equating cost with quality. Especially in a case like this thread where the OP is asking for advice on a set of wheels with a £400 budget.

Also please let me know where I can get a set of Novatec hubs for £20? I'll gladly buy fifty pairs.

So you’re saying a set of top end hubs are no better than budget ones. I’m not a snob but O know the difference between high end quality and budget. If you don’t then fine, just don’t make yourself look a fool by saying there is little difference.

apreading

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

So you’re saying a set of top end hubs are no better than budget ones. I’m not a snob but O know the difference between high end quality and budget. If you don’t then fine, just don’t make yourself look a fool by saying there is little difference.

What is the difference then? What makes DT Swiss and Chris King hubs good that Novatec hubs dont have, or vice versa?

apreading

While soft brake pads may sound like they will be kinder to wheels, as I understand it also means they may pick up more debris and contaminants, which when rubbed across the surface of the rims will be what does the damage.

imposter2.0

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

So you’re saying a set of top end hubs are no better than budget ones. I’m not a snob but O know the difference between high end quality and budget. If you don’t then fine, just don’t make yourself look a fool by saying there is little difference.

I think you're digging yourself a hole here. Define 'better'?? Like others, I struggle to spot the difference, when riding, between my 'best' wheels laced to a set of Dura Ace hubs, and others sets, with 'low end' Mavic or Fulcrum hubs. Ironically, the lightest wheelset I ever had came with a set of 'cheap' Novatech hubs.

trivial_poursuivant

Imposter wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

So you’re saying a set of top end hubs are no better than budget ones. I’m not a snob but O know the difference between high end quality and budget. If you don’t then fine, just don’t make yourself look a fool by saying there is little difference.

I think you're digging yourself a hole here. Define 'better'?? Like others, I struggle to spot the difference, when riding, between my 'best' wheels laced to a set of Dura Ace hubs, and others sets, with 'low end' Mavic or Fulcrum hubs. Ironically, the lightest wheelset I ever had came with a set of 'cheap' Novatech hubs.

I’m digging a hole? Really? So a set of hubs that cost nearly 200 quid are just that price for the hell of it? There is a big difference in weight, amount and quality of the bearings, possibly ceramic etc.

As for brakes, as mentioned by another. Softer brakes are kinder to rims. They don’t pick up more debris. They are not sticky just a softer compound. Some people making up random bullshit now to make an argument me thinks

lostboysaint

Children, children.

Always worth remembering that the rim is a disposable item - if the shite roads don't get them then the brake pads will. Whilst a nice rim is always good the bit that should always be considered, because it should be with you a LOT longer, is the hub.

I've got handbuilts on every one of my bikes and have a variety of Hope and Novatech and I've also had Miche Primato. Can I notice the difference? Yes - but only on engagement, the older Hope hubs have less pawls and so the engagement isn't quite as instant. Otherwise? Nope. All are very easily serviced, very well made, light enough, definitely strong enough and look fine.

Talk to a decent wheelbuilder and get the feedback, don't rely on forums.

nicklong

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Define 'better'?? Like others, I struggle to spot the difference, when riding, between my 'best' wheels laced to a set of Dura Ace hubs, and others sets, with 'low end' Mavic or Fulcrum hubs. Ironically, the lightest wheelset I ever had came with a set of 'cheap' Novatech hubs.

I’m digging a hole? Really? So a set of hubs that cost nearly 200 quid are just that price for the hell of it? There is a big difference in weight, amount and quality of the bearings, possibly ceramic etc.

Not sure, I agree with Imposter that it's difficult to quantify what you're paying for when it comes to super-high end hubs.

What is the end-goal - being faster?

What's the difference between a cheap hub and an expensive hub in terms of frictional losses?

Does 100g in weight over 2 hubs, ie 50g at either end, make a difference?

Assuming good maintenance, is there a case to argue that ceramic bearings are over-kill?

As long as QC is maintained, why pay extra for ultra fine tolerances for a component which is only rotating at circa 238rpm at 30kmh?

I raise the questions as I'm going through the same thought process, do I plump for Zondas, Novatec Jetfly, Cero AR, Hunt Aero etc or put the money into some DA or DT Swiss handbuilt set for double the price?

apreading

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

So a set of hubs that cost nearly 200 quid are just that price for the hell of it? There is a big difference in weight, amount and quality of the bearings, possibly ceramic etc.

Thats more an argument for better bearings, not better hubs. You can get quality bearings, probably even ceramic for a novatec hub. Only argument in your post for hubs is weight - and novatec hubs are pretty light.

The only real significant difference which is actually down to the hub in my mind is the design of the freehub i.e. points of engagement and reliability of pawls etc. No problem with novatec there, so why pay more? They are really easy to service, reliable and can easily be adjusted for different axle types.

I have expensive american classic hubs, I have DT hubs but I cant see anything better on either of those than my novatec hubs after years of using them. And the novatec hubs are easier to service.

There are alot of cheap hubs that I wouldnt touch but novatec (and apparently miche) seem to be the exceptions.

Biggest thing I want from a hub is actually quietness - as important as weight and reliability to me! Thats why I got the American Classic in the first place because they are super quiet. Novatec can be quiet too as long as you keep the grease topped up in the freehub.

imposter2.0

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

I’m digging a hole? Really? So a set of hubs that cost nearly 200 quid are just that price for the hell of it? There is a big difference in weight, amount and quality of the bearings, possibly ceramic etc.

You're paying for higher quality billet, lower production runs, higher production costs and lower economies of scale when compared to mass-produced hubs, that's for sure. What you are not paying for, however, is any guarantee of a performance benefit when you build them into wheels. Like I said to you earlier - define 'better'..

mfin

There's nothing wrong with having something that's well engineered. With rear hubs obviously the freehub mechanism can differ.

Reliability (as in longevity) under mucky conditions could be a positive facet of some designs, but then again it's not like cost means better sealing. Serviceability might be an aspect that's seen as good, but again, not price related (note Chris King which can apparently be a pig, needing special tools). Performance would be another aspect, but the most expensive of hubs don't offer any perceivable real world advantage (as a related example anyone who has noticed speed changes when moving to ceramic bearings in hubs is in cloud cuckoo land). Less weight gives naff all advantage really.

So, I think "better" hubs are too difficult to define, and certainly they are not automatically related to higher prices you pay, that's my guess.

Like I said at the start, there's nothing wrong with having something that's well engineered. It's not worth buying into the marketing crap though, people can't help buying into it though and is why marketing works, otherwise it would just be spec sheets and nothing else.

I own some nice wheels, with nice hubs (apparently), but never have I appreciated any performance difference in any hub when pedalling any of my bikes.

Most wheelbuilders will only point out the odd hub here and there that they don't like, and they'll have reasons, low cost won't be one of the reasons.

trivial_poursuivant

apreading wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

So a set of hubs that cost nearly 200 quid are just that price for the hell of it? There is a big difference in weight, amount and quality of the bearings, possibly ceramic etc.

Thats more an argument for better bearings, not better hubs. You can get quality bearings, probably even ceramic for a novatec hub.

And if you did, they wouldn’t be cheap. The hub is a collection of components and the bearings indeed are a large part of what makes them better or worse. So if you bought cheap hubs and replaced the bearings with better expensive ones it’s the same damn thing!!

apreading

Rubbish, quality bearings from SKF etc dont cost much. And more expensive hubs like DT Swiss dont come with ceramic and fancy things as standard anyway. And bearings need replacing at some point anyway - they are a consumable part of a hub.

I am starting to think you are just trolling...

trivial_poursuivant

apreading wrote:

Rubbish, quality bearings from SKF etc dont cost much. And more expensive hubs like DT Swiss dont come with ceramic and fancy things as standard anyway. And bearings need replacing at some point anyway - they are a consumable part of a hub.

I am starting to think you are just trolling...

Wah wah. I don’t like the way you talk. Wah wah. Your a troll.

It’s called having a discussion. If that’s too cerebral for you then find somewhere else. Don’t cry troll cos someone disagrees with you.

apreading

I only cried troll because if you actually believe what you are saying then I feel sorry for you. Its utter tripe.

Only conclusion if you are a sane and reasonable person is that you are doing this on purpose.

imposter2.0

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

apreading wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

So a set of hubs that cost nearly 200 quid are just that price for the hell of it? There is a big difference in weight, amount and quality of the bearings, possibly ceramic etc.

Thats more an argument for better bearings, not better hubs. You can get quality bearings, probably even ceramic for a novatec hub.

And if you did, they wouldn’t be cheap. The hub is a collection of components and the bearings indeed are a large part of what makes them better or worse. So if you bought cheap hubs and replaced the bearings with better expensive ones it’s the same damn thing!!

Replacing bearings (even if you were gullible enough to buy ceramic) is not going to add £100 to the cost of ownership though, is it...

mrb123

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

So you’re saying a set of top end hubs are no better than budget ones. I’m not a snob but O know the difference between high end quality and budget. If you don’t then fine, just don’t make yourself look a fool by saying there is little difference.

I think you're digging yourself a hole here. Define 'better'?? Like others, I struggle to spot the difference, when riding, between my 'best' wheels laced to a set of Dura Ace hubs, and others sets, with 'low end' Mavic or Fulcrum hubs. Ironically, the lightest wheelset I ever had came with a set of 'cheap' Novatech hubs.

I’m digging a hole? Really? So a set of hubs that cost nearly 200 quid are just that price for the hell of it? There is a big difference in weight, amount and quality of the bearings, possibly ceramic etc.

As for brakes, as mentioned by another. Softer brakes are kinder to rims. They don’t pick up more debris. They are not sticky just a softer compound. Some people making up random bullshit now to make an argument me thinks

The Novatec and DCR (Bitex) hubs are actually some of the lightest around and are perfectly good for most conditions. You'd have to spend a hell of a lot more to make any significant weight saving.

The Miche Primato favoured by Malcolm weigh more but are super well built and usable across 4 seasons.

trivial_poursuivant

apreading wrote:

I only cried troll because if you actually believe what you are saying then I feel sorry for you. Its utter tripe.

Only conclusion if you are a sane and reasonable person is that you are doing this on purpose.

So now you’re throwing insults about. That is trolling.

I’m saying from the start. That lower quality hubs on handbuilt wheels are not worth it compared to comparable priced factory wheels. As you go up in price - and the website I used as an example quite clearly shows it- better hubs cost more and would no doubt purely down to the original cost be worth keeping and putting new rims on. You need to factor in the cost of the work. Wheelsmiths don’t do this for free you know! So for the cost of a set of say Campagnolo Zonda wheels you get an inferior package with hand built in my opinion. You may disagree but I have my opinion and I am damn well entitled to it.

beanstalk

Get something with a steel or titanium freehub body, if you use Shimano or Sram sprockets.
First this makes the wheel/hub choice much easier.
Then there is this durability thing...