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kurt kinectic working with Zwift

shiznit76shiznit76 Posts: 640
Hi, I am about to get my first smart trainer, kurt kinectic road machine, and interested in using it with Zwift. Basically, how does it connect with my laptop and do I need buy anything to do it? I've seen mentions elsewhere about an ANT+ dongle, do need this?
Does anyone else run this machine with Zwift? What's your verdict on it if you do?

Posts

  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Kk road machine is not a smart trainer???

    You can make it work with Zwift by getting the inride which converts wheel speed to power. Then you connect via Bluetooth I think to an iOS device or a laptop.
  • hi, sorry should have said, it is the smart version of the KK road machine.
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Hi, the word ‘smart’ is a bit misleading. To me smart implies the ability of the turbo to control or change the resistance, the kks do not do this. Anyway, from a quick read of the turbo description, you get the inride converter as part of the package so you’re good to go.

    Mine works over Bluetooth to my iOS devices, so not sure how it works to a pc, I’m pretty sure that ant+ is not involved though.

    My thoughts on trainer and Zwift. The turbo is excellent but the power measurement is a bit of a pia. For it to read consistently you have to perform a 10 min warm up and a calibration. I prefer to more or less jump on and get going so I use my stages powermeter with Zwift instead.
  • chrisw12 wrote:
    Hi, the word ‘smart’ is a bit misleading. To me smart implies the ability of the turbo to control or change the resistance, the kks do not do this. Anyway, from a quick read of the turbo description, you get the inride converter as part of the package so you’re good to go.

    Mine works over Bluetooth to my iOS devices, so not sure how it works to a pc, I’m pretty sure that ant+ is not involved though.

    My thoughts on trainer and Zwift. The turbo is excellent but the power measurement is a bit of a pia. For it to read consistently you have to perform a 10 min warm up and a calibration. I prefer to more or less jump on and get going so I use my stages powermeter with Zwift instead.

    Cheers for info.
    How do you find zwift? Do you screen shot it from apple device on to your television?
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    No problems. Love Zwift. I used to use Apple TV but there were too many drop outs so I’ve switched to a direct cable from iPad to tv. The cable failed last night as well so I’m going to just stick the iPad on the aero bars.

    By the way, the kk seems to get great reviews as a turbo trainer and I really rate mine. It might not have all the bells and whistles of a proper smart trainer but you’ve made a good choice there.
  • chrisw12 wrote:
    No problems. Love Zwift. I used to use Apple TV but there were too many drop outs so I’ve switched to a direct cable from iPad to tv. The cable failed last night as well so I’m going to just stick the iPad on the aero bars.

    By the way, the kk seems to get great reviews as a turbo trainer and I really rate mine. It might not have all the bells and whistles of a proper smart trainer but you’ve made a good choice there.

    Do you use the kk smart road machine? Do you need anything else like a dongle to hook up to laotop? What's your opinion of Zwift?
  • I have a KK Road Mach. Theres couple of diff ways to use with Zwift depending whether your sensors are Bluetooth or Ant. I use bluetooth and Heres what i do. Wahoo cadence on shoe, wahoo rpm on back wheel, wahoo HR, Zwift mobile app loaded on android tablet (or phone), old dell laptop with Zwift softwzre loaded.

    Start Zwift software on laptop, start mobile app on tablet and login, start pedaling to wake sensors, turn tablet bluetooth on but no need to pair devices...it only needs to "see them available", Zwift software on laptop "sees the sensors" because both laptop and mobile app is communicating back to "zwift central servers" via home wifi, And once those sensors are being seen by Zwift laptop... its ready to ride.

    you will have to set up a few mics one time items like profile. Zwift will factor Your weight along with cadence, and wheel rpm to project speed and watts on the screen as your rider moves. Rider slows on inclines... your actual resistence doesnt change with KK.. so you have to pedal faster or hit a bigger gear and grind it up to make rider go faster up incline. It sounds like it would be a big drawback but the KK Road Machine is a great trainer because of the fluid design. If you want to feel like youre pedaling up a hill ..upshift to higher gear (smaller cog) so it feels like youre mashing. KK provides big value zwift experience at entry level price.
  • DGWRECK wrote:
    I have a KK Road Mach. Theres couple of diff ways to use with Zwift depending whether your sensors are Bluetooth or Ant. I use bluetooth and Heres what i do. Wahoo cadence on shoe, wahoo rpm on back wheel, wahoo HR, Zwift mobile app loaded on android tablet (or phone), old dell laptop with Zwift softwzre loaded.

    Start Zwift software on laptop, start mobile app on tablet and login, start pedaling to wake sensors, turn tablet bluetooth on but no need to pair devices...it only needs to "see them available", Zwift software on laptop "sees the sensors" because both laptop and mobile app is communicating back to "zwift central servers" via home wifi, And once those sensors are being seen by Zwift laptop... its ready to ride.

    you will have to set up a few mics one time items like profile. Zwift will factor Your weight along with cadence, and wheel rpm to project speed and watts on the screen as your rider moves. Rider slows on inclines... your actual resistence doesnt change with KK.. so you have to pedal faster or hit a bigger gear and grind it up to make rider go faster up incline. It sounds like it would be a big drawback but the KK Road Machine is a great trainer because of the fluid design. If you want to feel like youre pedaling up a hill ..upshift to higher gear (smaller cog) so it feels like youre mashing. KK provides big value zwift experience at entry level price.

    Cheers for info, very useful, especially the pairing up bit.
    My version on the road machine is the smart one, so will that increase resistance automatically when come to climbs?
  • navrig2navrig2 Posts: 1,703
    shiznit76 wrote:
    DGWRECK wrote:
    I have a KK Road Mach. Theres couple of diff ways to use with Zwift depending whether your sensors are Bluetooth or Ant. I use bluetooth and Heres what i do. Wahoo cadence on shoe, wahoo rpm on back wheel, wahoo HR, Zwift mobile app loaded on android tablet (or phone), old dell laptop with Zwift softwzre loaded.

    Start Zwift software on laptop, start mobile app on tablet and login, start pedaling to wake sensors, turn tablet bluetooth on but no need to pair devices...it only needs to "see them available", Zwift software on laptop "sees the sensors" because both laptop and mobile app is communicating back to "zwift central servers" via home wifi, And once those sensors are being seen by Zwift laptop... its ready to ride.

    you will have to set up a few mics one time items like profile. Zwift will factor Your weight along with cadence, and wheel rpm to project speed and watts on the screen as your rider moves. Rider slows on inclines... your actual resistence doesnt change with KK.. so you have to pedal faster or hit a bigger gear and grind it up to make rider go faster up incline. It sounds like it would be a big drawback but the KK Road Machine is a great trainer because of the fluid design. If you want to feel like youre pedaling up a hill ..upshift to higher gear (smaller cog) so it feels like youre mashing. KK provides big value zwift experience at entry level price.

    Cheers for info, very useful, especially the pairing up bit.
    My version on the road machine is the smart one, so will that increase resistance automatically when come to climbs?

    Doesn't look like it. Check on this page and search for Kurt. It will take you to the table of trainers which are not FE-C compatible. This review was written in July '16 so worth checking with Kurt.

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/07/eve ... iners.html
  • Navrig2 wrote:
    shiznit76 wrote:
    DGWRECK wrote:
    I have a KK Road Mach. Theres couple of diff ways to use with Zwift depending whether your sensors are Bluetooth or Ant. I use bluetooth and Heres what i do. Wahoo cadence on shoe, wahoo rpm on back wheel, wahoo HR, Zwift mobile app loaded on android tablet (or phone), old dell laptop with Zwift softwzre loaded.

    Start Zwift software on laptop, start mobile app on tablet and login, start pedaling to wake sensors, turn tablet bluetooth on but no need to pair devices...it only needs to "see them available", Zwift software on laptop "sees the sensors" because both laptop and mobile app is communicating back to "zwift central servers" via home wifi, And once those sensors are being seen by Zwift laptop... its ready to ride.

    you will have to set up a few mics one time items like profile. Zwift will factor Your weight along with cadence, and wheel rpm to project speed and watts on the screen as your rider moves. Rider slows on inclines... your actual resistence doesnt change with KK.. so you have to pedal faster or hit a bigger gear and grind it up to make rider go faster up incline. It sounds like it would be a big drawback but the KK Road Machine is a great trainer because of the fluid design. If you want to feel like youre pedaling up a hill ..upshift to higher gear (smaller cog) so it feels like youre mashing. KK provides big value zwift experience at entry level price.

    Cheers for info, very useful, especially the pairing up bit.
    My version on the road machine is the smart one, so will that increase resistance automatically when come to climbs?

    Doesn't look like it. Check on this page and search for Kurt. It will take you to the table of trainers which are not FE-C compatible. This review was written in July '16 so worth checking with Kurt.

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/07/eve ... iners.html

    I am under the impression that the kurt Kinect smart road machine does alter the resistance (built in smart machine, not the one with optional add on as in DC review) , I have included a link below, am I wrong?

    https://www.evanscycles.com/kinetic-roa ... vg_1319812
  • navrig2navrig2 Posts: 1,703
    shiznit76 wrote:
    Navrig2 wrote:
    shiznit76 wrote:
    DGWRECK wrote:
    I have a KK Road Mach. Theres couple of diff ways to use with Zwift depending whether your sensors are Bluetooth or Ant. I use bluetooth and Heres what i do. Wahoo cadence on shoe, wahoo rpm on back wheel, wahoo HR, Zwift mobile app loaded on android tablet (or phone), old dell laptop with Zwift softwzre loaded.

    Start Zwift software on laptop, start mobile app on tablet and login, start pedaling to wake sensors, turn tablet bluetooth on but no need to pair devices...it only needs to "see them available", Zwift software on laptop "sees the sensors" because both laptop and mobile app is communicating back to "zwift central servers" via home wifi, And once those sensors are being seen by Zwift laptop... its ready to ride.

    you will have to set up a few mics one time items like profile. Zwift will factor Your weight along with cadence, and wheel rpm to project speed and watts on the screen as your rider moves. Rider slows on inclines... your actual resistence doesnt change with KK.. so you have to pedal faster or hit a bigger gear and grind it up to make rider go faster up incline. It sounds like it would be a big drawback but the KK Road Machine is a great trainer because of the fluid design. If you want to feel like youre pedaling up a hill ..upshift to higher gear (smaller cog) so it feels like youre mashing. KK provides big value zwift experience at entry level price.

    Cheers for info, very useful, especially the pairing up bit.
    My version on the road machine is the smart one, so will that increase resistance automatically when come to climbs?

    Doesn't look like it. Check on this page and search for Kurt. It will take you to the table of trainers which are not FE-C compatible. This review was written in July '16 so worth checking with Kurt.

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/07/eve ... iners.html

    I am under the impression that the kurt Kinect smart road machine does alter the resistance (built in smart machine, not the one with optional add on as in DC review) , I have included a link below, am I wrong?

    https://www.evanscycles.com/kinetic-roa ... vg_1319812

    I don't know. From what I have read the terminology you should be looking for is ERG and/or FE-C compatibility.

    If you read the blurb about the Tacx Vortex it is quite clear:

    https://www.evanscycles.com/tacx-vortex ... r-EV220389

    The Kinetic blurb is much less clear. I'd be very careful and make sure you do your research. Working with TrainerRoad can be said of any trainer for which TR has the power profile because they can calculate a power output from cadence, speed, heart rate etc. Some of this data is collected from the trainer by Bluetooth but that doesn't mean the trainer will respond to software changes. This is known in TR as virtual power.

    Control of the trainer by TR (or Zwift) needs FE-C or ERG.
  • joey54321joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    As far as I know the smart part of the KK is just doing what Zwift/TrainerRoad do with speed. It is measuring the speed of the rear wheel, converting that power using the trainers known resistance curve and then broadcasting power. Nothing that a rear wheel speed sensor + TR/Zwift can't do (for a lot less money).

    This is my reading of it anyway.
  • so if it doesn't control resistance what happens in Zwift "gameplay" when come to a hill or gradient changes
  • joey54321joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    shiznit76 wrote:
    so if it doesn't control resistance what happens in Zwift "gameplay" when come to a hill or gradient changes

    You imagine yourself going up a hill.

    Nothing changes in the turbo. As an aside, with it being a fluid turbo I have no idea how you could even get an electrical signal to increase/decrease resistance. Unless you could somehow control the viscosity of the fluid? Though I guess the simple answer is an electromagnetic brake + the fluid resistance?

    edit/ps I could well be wrong! This is just how I understand it.
  • navrig2navrig2 Posts: 1,703
    shiznit76 wrote:
    so if it doesn't control resistance what happens in Zwift "gameplay" when come to a hill or gradient changes

    You change to a harder gear on your bike, just as you would in real life (although you would change in the opposite direction) however you wont be able to easily "replicate" the gradient on the Zwift video or the gradient of a hill in real life. You may have to adjust the change in order to maintain the (perceived) effort.

    I am not sure how long FE-C/ERG trainers have been around but there is a bit of confusion out there. I use TrainerRoad and their help guys are excellent. If you were to email them with details of a proposed trainer they would tell you in the software will change the trainer resistance.
  • So instead of shelling out for this would I really just be as well off pairing my Garmin ANT+ speed and cadence sensor really?
  • navrig2navrig2 Posts: 1,703
    shiznit76 wrote:
    So instead of shelling out for this would I really just be as well off pairing my Garmin ANT+ speed and cadence sensor really?

    I would suggest you go to the TrainerRoad website and read their guidance on Virtual Power. They will explain it much better than we can. They will also give an indication of whether your current trainer is in their database and can be used to calculate Virtual Power. Zwift probably have similar guidance but I am not familiar with it.
  • joey54321joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    shiznit76 wrote:
    So instead of shelling out for this would I really just be as well off pairing my Garmin ANT+ speed and cadence sensor really?

    If you are riding either Zwift or TR then, imo, yes. It'll be much cheaper to just use a Garmin speed sensor.

    If you only have access to something like a Garmin headunit and you really want a power number then you'll need the smart unit to convert speed in to power for you.

    I know TR highly recommend the KK as having a very consistent and 'smooth' power curve.


    https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/arti ... t-support-

    KK road and rock n roll are supported as Virtual power (z) trainers.
  • joey54321 wrote:
    shiznit76 wrote:
    So instead of shelling out for this would I really just be as well off pairing my Garmin ANT+ speed and cadence sensor really?

    If you are riding either Zwift or TR then, imo, yes. It'll be much cheaper to just use a Garmin speed sensor.

    If you only have access to something like a Garmin headunit and you really want a power number then you'll need the smart unit to convert speed in to power for you.

    I know TR highly recommend the KK as having a very consistent and 'smooth' power curve.


    https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/arti ... t-support-

    KK road and rock n roll are supported as Virtual power (z) trainers.


    Yeah I have the garmin speed and cadence sensor so might just try that first. Not overly fussed about power readings, its more something to break the monotony of riding turbo in house over the winter
  • shiznit76 wrote:
    Navrig2 wrote:
    shiznit76 wrote:
    DGWRECK wrote:
    I have a KK Road Mach. Theres couple of diff ways to use with Zwift depending whether your sensors are Bluetooth or Ant. I use bluetooth and Heres what i do. Wahoo cadence on shoe, wahoo rpm on back wheel, wahoo HR, Zwift mobile app loaded on android tablet (or phone), old dell laptop with Zwift softwzre loaded.

    Start Zwift software on laptop, start mobile app on tablet and login, start pedaling to wake sensors, turn tablet bluetooth on but no need to pair devices...it only needs to "see them available", Zwift software on laptop "sees the sensors" because both laptop and mobile app is communicating back to "zwift central servers" via home wifi, And once those sensors are being seen by Zwift laptop... its ready to ride.

    you will have to set up a few mics one time items like profile. Zwift will factor Your weight along with cadence, and wheel rpm to project speed and watts on the screen as your rider moves. Rider slows on inclines... your actual resistence doesnt change with KK.. so you have to pedal faster or hit a bigger gear and grind it up to make rider go faster up incline. It sounds like it would be a big drawback but the KK Road Machine is a great trainer because of the fluid design. If you want to feel like youre pedaling up a hill ..upshift to higher gear (smaller cog) so it feels like youre mashing. KK provides big value zwift experience at entry level price.

    Cheers for info, very useful, especially the pairing up bit.
    My version on the road machine is the smart one, so will that increase resistance automatically when come to climbs?

    Doesn't look like it. Check on this page and search for Kurt. It will take you to the table of trainers which are not FE-C compatible. This review was written in July '16 so worth checking with Kurt.

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/07/eve ... iners.html

    I am under the impression that the kurt Kinect smart road machine does alter the resistance (built in smart machine, not the one with optional add on as in DC review) , I have included a link below, am I wrong?

    https://www.evanscycles.com/kinetic-roa ... vg_1319812

    No, Zwift will not control the resistence directly to your KK Road machine version. Your Kk is same as mine, fluid, and is engineered so that faster you spin the flywheel.. the more resistence it places on your effort. Its sophistically engineered and the resistence mimics outdoor flat road pedling. The Zwift software supports that trainer , understands the engineering resistence curve, and calcs it into its game determing what your speed should be. If you know what it feels like to sustain 20mph on flat road no wind... you will be close that same feel when zwifting a flat road at same 20mph. When you encounter an incline in zwift you will not feel any resistence change.. but your rider will slow based on your weight and watts. You can simply keep pedailing feeling same resistance or you can simualte the feel of going up hill by switching into higher gear to feel likeyoure mashing it.. put out more watts will increase speed. Since you already have that KK road machine you try it with Zwift. Plenty of zwifters are using it. KK is using the term "smart" very loosely.. where other mfg are uaing rhe term to indicate interqctive resistence controlled via sofware... now kk came out with models using the term "smart control" ... Thats tbeir high end interctive resistence version.
    One more note: there are hills in Zwift hitting 15% plus sustained... and if youre a person that cant handle that type of power to climb.. the KK fluid road machine allows you to ride/experience those hilly routes without killing yourself. I suppose the true smart control triners can be adjusted but it seems i see riders in zwift completely drop when they hit those big inclines.
  • Cheers dude, that's all the info I've been needing
  • navrig2navrig2 Posts: 1,703
    Thanks DGW that was quite informative.

    Everyday is a school day!
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