Newbie seeking advice for tour

majster

Hi there,

I am hoping to complete a 7 day cycling tour next year in Europe, approximately 40-45 miles per day and although flat sections some hills also. I am not particularly fit and strictly a fair weather cyclist on my very old Marin Larkspur hybrid. Cycling racks and panniers are a must and we will be expected to carry approx 10kg luggage. I think the terrain will be mainly roads or smoothish paths

I have tried a road bike before, however, I purchased a Focus off a Wiggle sale which was mainly in a race style geometry and tended to get back pain on this

I am looking for suggestions in relation to a bike that I could get now and start training on. Requirements are comfort, light weight, easy gearing for hills (my hybrid has triple and I tend to use mainly 1st and 2nd gears on front and rarely 3), able to carry luggage, comfortable ride without really skinny tyres

Not sure whether to go for a endurance road bike, newer hybrid (has the technology moved on since 2004?), cyclocross, Flat bar road bike or other genre of bike

Any comments will be gratefully received.

Thanks

haydenm

What sort of budget do you have? I wouldn't bother with another hybrid personally. I would go for a bike with drop bars, clearance for wide tyres and comfortable geometry (subjective but if all else fails, stick some spacers under the stem and buy a brooks saddle!). I use a Genesis equilibrium disc for touring and I get on with it extremely well, the Genesis Croix de fer is very popular for touring also. I would look at the Genesis CDA if I were buying now, it's a bit lighter than the others (not so much of a consideration unless you are packing extremely light). It's not steel framed like the others but it certainly looks good, not ridden one.

Steel is popular in touring bikes as it's comfortable (please don't lynch me forumites), durable and can take the loads from panniers. It's certainly not a necessity though, I just like it. There are plenty of cheaper options about if your budget dictates, I get on with my Genesis hence the suggestions but as I said before, anything you get on with comfort wise that has pannier mounts will do!

bigmitch41

Depends on budget, 45 miles per day isn't big miles either. Id look at the Tri-Cross, Defy or Synapse with mounts to run panniers. Less is more with luggage, try and keep the weight down.

arthur_scrimshaw

You can tour on pretty much any bike, a few things to take into account would be how much luggage you want (or need) to carry and the kind of terrain and road conditions you are going to encounter and how fast you want to travel.

At one end of the spectrum are steel framed 26" wheel tourers which can cope with pretty much any road conditions (including no road) and can carry vast amounts of luggage through to carbon road or gravel bikes for bikepacking which are designed for traveling fast and light. Both types of bikes are capable of world tours but refer to my first sentence. For a European tour an alloy framed hybid will be fine, they normally come with mounting points for racks and mudguards and can be bought with mountain bike groupsets (which will help you climb hills with luggage)
The argument for steel frames normally centers around comfort and the ability to repair it in far flung places.The first is a bit of a myth, any bike material can give a soft or hard ride, it's more about design than what it's made of and the second may have some truth in it but you will be in Europe not Nepal. Lots of people tour on steel and aluminium bikes, fewer probably on carbon frames but that's more about cost than strength?
Anyway I ramble - I'd be looking at the suggestions above but make sure you have low enough gears, e.g an mtb triple or double, I recently bought a Kona Sutra and I was also looking at the Genesis Tour de Fer, in the end it was the gearing that made my choice, the Genesis has road triple gears and no good (imo) for loaded touring. I'm not embarrassed to say I used the granny gear quite a few times on a recent trip down to Cornwall (28-34) - I'm mainly a road cyclist and you have to forget that kind of riding style when on a loaded touring bike, you can't power up hills, you select a low gear and twiddle. Well me anyway.

haydenm

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

The argument for steel frames normally centers around comfort and the ability to repair it in far flung places.The first is a bit of a myth, any bike material can give a soft or hard ride, it's more about design than what it's made of and the second may have some truth in it but you will be in Europe not Nepal. Lots of people tour on steel and aluminium bikes, fewer probably on carbon frames but that's more about cost than strength?

I'd agree there tbh, most of the reason I and others like steel is because it's generally used for bikes which happen to be comfortable by design. You can get a carbon supersix for less than £1000, and people frequently tour on very expensive bikes so I wouldn't say cost is the main reason it's not so popular, probably more marketing hype and the fact it's not generally used for bikes with pannier capacity? Side loads on tubes? Not sure but there are definitely exceptions as with everything. I'd suggest steel because I really like the Genesis range for comfort, I'd guess a decent alu bike with pannier mounts would come in a better price because steel is for hipsters

The GF did the NC500 on my supersix with no luggage (whilst I had 24kg on mine) so I can attest the fact steel is very strong, carbon is fine, and race geo makes no difference... But don't tell anyone as I want more bikes for different niches

majster

In terms of budget was looking to spend between £1000-£1500. Although the bike will be used for a tour, I suspect that this will not be the case exclusively, and I would hope to use the bike more general riding such as weekend rights locally. Furthermore, I would not say that I am very fit and even on my hybrid bike, I have to use the “granny“ gears quite a lot. Hence, the thought of riding relatively long distances (45 miles per day will be the longest ride I have ever done for a sustained period of time) with luggage worries me and the comfort of having lots of hillclimbing gears would be reassuring.

I guess in a nutshell, I am looking for something that is as light as possible, able to carry luggage, comfortable and has good gearing for carrying luggage and hillclimbing for a novice like me.

Thank you for your continued help

arthur_scrimshaw

Majster wrote:

In terms of budget was looking to spend between £1000-£1500. Although the bike will be used for a tour, I suspect that this will not be the case exclusively, and I would hope to use the bike more general riding such as weekend rights locally. Furthermore, I would not say that I am very fit and even on my hybrid bike, I have to use the “granny“ gears quite a lot. Hence, the thought of riding relatively long distances (45 miles per day will be the longest ride I have ever done for a sustained period of time) with luggage worries me and the comfort of having lots of hillclimbing gears would be reassuring.

I guess in a nutshell, I am looking for something that is as light as possible, able to carry luggage, comfortable and has good gearing for carrying luggage and hillclimbing for a novice like me.

Thank you for your continued help

45 miles a day in in all but the most challenging terrain is very achievable. Think about it in hours in the saddle, if you can sit on your bike for six hours that’s averaging 7.5 miles per hour which doesn’t sound too taxing does it?
So you need a bike that you can ride for that time, comfort is vital and then you just need to keep adding fuel throughout that period. A good excuse to stop and eat.
You can can get some great bikes for that money, the Kona I have can be bought now for about £1100 or less ( I wouldn’t consider the “Limited” version with 1x11 gears) Also look at the Trek 920 which is an excellent bike, the Surly long haul trucker or disk trucker, Salsa Vaya, Ridgeback Panarama all worth your attention.

Edit, check out this website, lots of good advice, look under the bikes tab, none of them are as light as possible though!

http://tomsbiketrip.com/

rolf_f

What does the luggage consist of? If it includes tents and the like, then 10kg seems very light. If it doesn't then 10kg seems really heavy! 7 days is a really short tour and a lot of Europe in Summer will be mostly warm - so being brutal with not carrying unnecessary crap is a very good idea. I think with a ride like that it should be possible to use any bike with a big seat pack and a bar bag which can easily handle 10kg. That way you can be riding a bike that weighs say 9kg rather than 16kg plus. My fully loaded touring setup consists of about 18-19kg of luggage and 16kg of bike though that has been for colder climates than most of Europe.

So I would have cycling shoes and some very lightweight shoes/sandals/flipflops, one shirt for off the bike, one pair of trousers for off the bike and no more than two pairs of any cycling kit. You really don't need to carry much.

vwillrocku

Majster wrote:

In terms of budget was looking to spend between £1000-£1500. Although the bike will be used for a tour, I suspect that this will not be the case exclusively, and I would hope to use the bike more general riding such as weekend rights locally. Furthermore, I would not say that I am very fit and even on my hybrid bike, I have to use the “granny“ gears quite a lot. Hence, the thought of riding relatively long distances (45 miles per day will be the longest ride I have ever done for a sustained period of time) with luggage worries me and the comfort of having lots of hillclimbing gears would be reassuring.

I guess in a nutshell, I am looking for something that is as light as possible, able to carry luggage, comfortable and has good gearing for carrying luggage and hillclimbing for a novice like me.

Thank you for your continued help

I just finished a 3 months cycling trip in Alps with a BMC AC02 Deore. It was a hybrid with pannier rack compatible and also with side stand holes which was really good when loading luggage or stop for photos. This bike was around 11kg and my luggage added 10kg more on it. If I took a road bike with me, I am sure it was unable to finish that trip as the gears of road bikes are not low enough for my weak legs.

haydenm

vwillrocku wrote:

Majster wrote:

In terms of budget was looking to spend between £1000-£1500. Although the bike will be used for a tour, I suspect that this will not be the case exclusively, and I would hope to use the bike more general riding such as weekend rights locally. Furthermore, I would not say that I am very fit and even on my hybrid bike, I have to use the “granny“ gears quite a lot. Hence, the thought of riding relatively long distances (45 miles per day will be the longest ride I have ever done for a sustained period of time) with luggage worries me and the comfort of having lots of hillclimbing gears would be reassuring.

I guess in a nutshell, I am looking for something that is as light as possible, able to carry luggage, comfortable and has good gearing for carrying luggage and hillclimbing for a novice like me.

Thank you for your continued help

I just finished a 3 months cycling trip in Alps with a BMC AC02 Deore. It was a hybrid with pannier rack compatible and also with side stand holes which was really good when loading luggage or stop for photos. This bike was around 11kg and my luggage added 10kg more on it. If I took a road bike with me, I am sure it was unable to finish that trip as the gears of road bikes are not low enough for my weak legs.

Touring bikes have different gears or you change it yourself which isn't too hard in most cases. If the OP buys a specific touring bike, or a comfortable road bike with the right gears he will be fine. That BMC looks like a surprisingly nice bike for the word 'hybrid' in the title though!

majster

Sorry guys been away for a while. Hoping to wrap this up over Christmas and make a decision. Having done some more research and I understand the touring bike genre more now

Ideally I would like a triple cog at the front with the lowest possible and a high cassette at the back. So ideally low down to 20/22 at the front and if possible 40 at the back - I’m really not very fit and I have to be realistic and need gearing that will get me out of trouble if needed

Genesis seem to offer 24/34 on a triple

Any suggestions please on a bike with the lowest gearing possible? If possible would prefer to buy bike with desired gearing installed already rather than modify

cougie

Where are you touring ? I'd think getting fitter should be your best option - that way you'll enjoy the tour much more.

There's no rush for the bike.

majster

The tour is in June and in Germany, however, there are preparation rides coming up from Jan/Feb hence I would prefer to settle into my bike before the tour

Also i’d Like to get it sorted now to avoid a last minute rush

Any suggestions would be most appreciated

Thanks

pblakeney

If you need anything easier than a 30 at the front and a 32 at the back then you may as well be walking. At 80rpm that translates to 5.9mph. At 60rpm it is only 4.4mph.
20x40 at 60rpm is only 2.4mph.

majster

Ok I understand. However any suggestions on touring type bikes with this sort of ultra low gearing option. Any help or suggestions would be most appreciated

mercia_man

If you are touring with luggage, typical road bike gearing such as 50/34, 11-28 or 32 is not really low enough to get up hills comfortably. A touring bike with triple chainset would be worth considering. Something like this.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p298 ... eel-Tourer

whoof

PBlakeney wrote:

If you need anything easier than a 30 at the front and a 32 at the back then you may as well be walking. At 80rpm that translates to 5.9mph. At 60rpm it is only 4.4mph.
20x40 at 60rpm is only 2.4mph.

If you look at this in the rather old fashioned but useful for comparison gear inches 30f/32r is 25". For the past 15 years my touring bike has had a low gear of 22f/28r on a mountain bike wheel which equates to 20", so the above lowest recommendation would be 25% "harder". I've ridden over most of the major climbs in the Alpes, Pyrenees, Mont Ventoux etc fully loaded with camping gear and can ensure you it's a lot quicker than walking. I know as I've passed many over geared riders who were walking. I know your are probably not carrying camping gear but as you have said your fitness isn't what it could be.
A quick look at the spec of your Larkspur and it has 28f/32r 24". It seems like it would make a perfectly usable touring bike. Consider spending a bit of money on this especially if you are comfortable on it already.Gear wise Measure the BCD of the inner chain,google Sheldon Brown BCD and look at Spa Cycles for a replacement 26 tooth ring, which would give you a 22" gear.