alumnium v carbon
shiznit76
Posts: 640
so, still looking for a new bike. My needs are 50 odd mile runs at weekend and couple 25-30 mile during week. Not looking for low profile racing geometry and now wanting to burst the bank. Been looking round and quite fancy both these bikes, B'twin Ultra 720 AF and also the Planet x carbon:
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/ultra-720-a ... 31274.html
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXSLPUL ... -road-bike
Both get good reviews and both fully Uletgra spec'ed. Think wheels on the B'twin are better, but is it worth going for the Planet X for the carbon frame? Weightwise not much in it. Are B'twins looked down on by some due to their heritage?
Any views?
Cheers agaaaaaain
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/ultra-720-a ... 31274.html
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXSLPUL ... -road-bike
Both get good reviews and both fully Uletgra spec'ed. Think wheels on the B'twin are better, but is it worth going for the Planet X for the carbon frame? Weightwise not much in it. Are B'twins looked down on by some due to their heritage?
Any views?
Cheers agaaaaaain
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There are a lot of bikes available at the £1000 price point - I'd go and talk to your local bike shop.
I have 11 speed 105 on one bike and 11 speed ultegra on another and there is barely anything between them so I'd suggest going with 105.0 -
If you are in any wY mechanically minded, build your own. For £1K you will able to build equivalent of 2-3k bike from the shops, if you can live with the odd scuff here and there0
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kleinstroker wrote:If you are in any wY mechanically minded, build your own. For £1K you will able to build equivalent of 2-3k bike from the shops, if you can live with the odd scuff here and there
Ha, unfortunately mechanic wise I'm useless, surprisingly as I work as a joiner and can usually turn my hand to most things!0 -
A look at the geometry chart might help with the decision.
Aluminium vs. carbon:
Find a picture of a crashed Al frame with a big dent.
Then consider how a carbon frame would look after that kind of impact and on which frame you still can limp home.0 -
beanstalk wrote:A look at the geometry chart might help with the decision.
Aluminium vs. carbon:
Find a picture of a crashed Al frame with a big dent.
Then consider how a carbon frame would look after that kind of impact and on which frame you still can limp home.
The carbon one because it'll take a lot more force to get to that state?
The carbon/Alu debate is a red herring, there wont be much between them so buy the one that fits best and has the nicest spec. Check out Cannondale for some good deals as well0 -
I've got nothing but praise for BTwin and Decathlon. If you're near a store, they are usually excellent even it comes to service etc and the France covers with a lifetime warranty. The 720 is a great bike.
Still, there's so much choice at the £1000 mark. I've recommended a friend to go for a Cannondale Supersix Evo or CAAD12 from Paul's Cycles or elsewhere, even if it is a bit over budget you should be able to find a 2016 tiagra or 105 version around £1000 and that would blow both of the above away. (It's where my money would go).
E.g. https://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b65s6p7 ... 2-105-2017
https://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b65s6p6 ... TEGRA-20160 -
beanstalk wrote:A look at the geometry chart might help with the decision.
Aluminium vs. carbon:
Find a picture of a crashed Al frame with a big dent.
Then consider how a carbon frame would look after that kind of impact and on which frame you still can limp home.
Unless you race (and with inexperienced people it is worse, cat 4, cat 3) then you probably won't crash a bike that often unless you are a brainless berk who doesn't know how to ride the bike you've bought. I think a crash every 20 years is about right on average for a non-racing rider and even then the bike might not get damaged.0 -
nicklong wrote:I've got nothing but praise for BTwin and Decathlon. If you're near a store, they are usually excellent even it comes to service etc and the France covers with a lifetime warranty. The 720 is a great bike.
Still, there's so much choice at the £1000 mark. I've recommended a friend to go for a Cannondale Supersix Evo or CAAD12 from Paul's Cycles or elsewhere, even if it is a bit over budget you should be able to find a 2016 tiagra or 105 version around £1000 and that would blow both of the above away. (It's where my money would go).
E.g. https://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b65s6p7 ... 2-105-2017
https://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b65s6p6 ... TEGRA-2016
I stay 5mins from a Decathlon that's why raised the question of the Btwin, had a sit on one and quite impressed. The wheels on it are better than the others on offer here I think. Just think bike snobs might look down their nose on them.
This Canyon also a possibility but I'd like to sit on bike before I buy really
www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/endurace/2016/endurace-al-7-00 -
For a road bike around that budget, I'd get a CAAD optima 105 for around £900.0
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This looks a great bike for the money
https://www.dolan-bikes.com/road/road-b ... -5800.html
If you're near a decathlon - they do this carbon number
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/triban-560- ... 77758.html
With the above the above decath you get a nicer looking bike than the alu one u listed - ok its tiagra not 105 - but you can upgrade to 105 callipers for £50 - and if you felt the need you could probably upgrade the shifters to 105 and not be much over £1000 - Decath might even do it for you....
Personally I would go for a carbon frame over group set.
I ve had a couple of bikes from decathlon - the service from the shop has always been excellent.0 -
there's nothing on a bike that an old Estwing can't sort out.shiznit76 wrote:kleinstroker wrote:If you are in any wY mechanically minded, build your own. For £1K you will able to build equivalent of 2-3k bike from the shops, if you can live with the odd scuff here and there
Ha, unfortunately mechanic wise I'm useless, surprisingly as I work as a joiner and can usually turn my hand to most things!0 -
hahaha, couldn't agree moreovi wrote:
there's nothing on a bike that an old Estwing can't sort out.shiznit76 wrote:kleinstroker wrote:If you are in any wY mechanically minded, build your own. For £1K you will able to build equivalent of 2-3k bike from the shops, if you can live with the odd scuff here and there
Ha, unfortunately mechanic wise I'm useless, surprisingly as I work as a joiner and can usually turn my hand to most things!0 -
Had Giant TCR alliance for a while now, couldn’t be happier. Just got old alloy bike out ready for winter n been on few rides, got aches and pains to do with fit but it’s okay but just not as responsive as the giant. Doesn’t need to be for winter though because I’ll soend most of time in cafe0
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For heavens sake buy carbon fibre if you can afford it. :idea:
Alu bikes on well maintained undressed tarmac give away almost nothing to a carbon fibre bikes, but all things being equal on underfunded austerity rough British roads a carbon fibre bike is just so much smoother and more enjoyable to ride all other things equal vs alu. The UK roads are littered with pot-holes and low grade large diameter stone surface dressing and sometimes gravel on the edges. Things tend to get worse the prettier and more rural the landscape.
Carbon fibre seat posts, carbon fibre forks and larger volume lower pressure tyres help an alu bike be smoother and less jarring, but you can use this to smooth out a carbon fibre bikes ride characteristics too. Personally I find even low end carbon fibre is far more enjoyable than alu, and mid and higher end carbon fibre just gets smoother, livelier and lighter as you spend more.
The idea that carbon fibre is weak or not robust isn't true, unless you are really abusing it doing hardcore touring or bikepacking, but even then you'd probably be OK but for normal training and racing it's amazingly strong and durable.
Beware of the aluminium alloy 'lifetime warranty' this actually means 7 years, the 'service life' of an aluminium bicycle frame.
Get the Carbon and start saving for Zonda wheels IMHO.
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I don't know who said "There are no bad materials, just poor applications" but he was right. It's possible to make a super rigid and harsh carbon frame and also to design an aluminium frame with a luxurious ride. It's the person who selects the tube diameters and thickness and the frame angles who decides how a frame feels. My own 2 cents - wheel and tyre choice play easily as big a part in how a bike feels and how much of road buzz and so on gets through to the rider and the idea that aluminium is an inferior product to carbon is flawed.0
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Wheel choice, tire choice and seat-post choice are just red herrings as anyone with a carbon fibre frame can do that too.Shortfall wrote:I don't know who said "There are no bad materials, just poor applications" but he was right. It's possible to make a super rigid and harsh carbon frame and also to design an aluminium frame with a luxurious ride. It's the person who selects the tube diameters and thickness and the frame angles who decides how a frame feels. My own 2 cents - wheel and tyre choice play easily as big a part in how a bike feels and how much of road buzz and so on gets through to the rider and the idea that aluminium is an interior product to carbon is flawed.
Simply try a carbon fibre bike vs the same alu bike for example some of the Trek range, I'll promise you that you'd prefer a carbon fibre bike, the rougher the road - all the more.
I'll be honest, I feel the people banging the drum for alu alloy are owners of only those bikes, trying to rationalize their purchases. Yet the people (like me) that have many bikes made from many materials incl alu all seem to prefer steel, titanium or carbon fibre for general road use, yet would be happy with alu for flat smooth road crit racing, velodrome or full suspension mountain bikes.0 -
I am kind of ambivalent to it all really ..... Ithere is a difference in feel between my CF and Alu bikes .. but the are different bikes, so are going to feel different anyway .... go figure my Alu CAAD10 feels stiff, hooks up imediately and feels like it wants to be abused, the CF Roubaix feels like I can ride on Bristol roads all day long and still get off and walk . But thats the nature of the bikes Geo anyway
The biggest difference is the feel of the bike when you hold it or tap it with your finger, or you clean it and see the carbon weave through the thin paint ... at that point the carbon bike wins wins WINS !!!!!
get carbon, it is nicer to touch !0 -
Buy from a local reputable bike shop that will 'support' you and your bike.
You will pay more than being online but at least you should get proper advice and guidance and hopefully hinder future posts like ' my gears make a noise, what to do ? '...0 -
SiFromBrewed wrote:Had Giant TCR alliance for a while now, couldn’t be happier. Just got old alloy bike out ready for winter n been on few rides, got aches and pains to do with fit but it’s okay but just not as responsive as the giant. Doesn’t need to be for winter though because I’ll soend most of time in cafe
Is it the TCR advance you have? Looking at one also, Sizing seems different, what size did you go for and what height are you?0 -
ZMC888 wrote:
Wheel choice, tire choice and seat-post choice are just red herrings as anyone with a carbon fibre frame can do that too.Shortfall wrote:I don't know who said "There are no bad materials, just poor applications" but he was right. It's possible to make a super rigid and harsh carbon frame and also to design an aluminium frame with a luxurious ride. It's the person who selects the tube diameters and thickness and the frame angles who decides how a frame feels. My own 2 cents - wheel and tyre choice play easily as big a part in how a bike feels and how much of road buzz and so on gets through to the rider and the idea that aluminium is an interior product to carbon is flawed.
Simply try a carbon fibre bike vs the same alu bike for example some of the Trek range, I'll promise you that you'd prefer a carbon fibre bike, the rougher the road - all the more.
That's the point though. If you make essentially the same bike out of different materials then the alu one will likely be harsher. But if you set out to make a comfortable bike from aluminium then you'll select different diameter tubes with the right guage and butting and then put it together with geometry to give the ride characteristics you want. Equally there are examples of carbon bikes out there that are rock hard and unforgiving because that's what the designer had in mind. Titanium bikes used to have a reputation for being whippy when they came on the market, but then frame builders quickly cottoned on to the fact that using larger tubing with a thinner guage gave a stiffer ride whilst maintaining the strength and lightness that titanium is renowned for. For what it's worth I don't have any particular bias having owned carbon, alu and titanium bikes. I currently own a ti bike which I absolutely love and an aluminium Felt for the Winter. The Felt is very comfortable.0 -
I have an alu Racelight Tk and a carbon CR1-SL. Obviously I'm comparing apples with haddock, but with both on 25mm tyres at sensible pressures there's very little difference in the ride quality. The lighter carbon bike is possibly slightly less buzzy, a bit livelier to chuck about, maybe a bit snappier accelerating, but that could well be all in my head.
What I'm pretty sure about is that if I were to crash them both in the same way, the alu bike would be much more likely to sustain unrepairable damage. The downtube in particular feels / sounds terrifyingly thin. I think repairs to carbon fibre are now pretty commonplace.0 -
Well, after all this I got a carbon Giant TCR advanced 1 second hand for a steal, like brand new, and only for £500! Very happy0
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keef66 wrote:shiznit76 wrote:Well, after all this I got a carbon Giant TCR advanced 1 second hand for a steal, like brand new, and only for £500! Very happy
As long as it's a good fit for you and it wasn't literally a steal, excellent choice!
Ha, no , made sure he had all the original paperwork for it. He bought it to ride a sportif, realised cycling is harder than the pros make it look and decided to jack it in after less than 500 miles ridden0 -
Medium, I'm only 5'8". Perfect and just had a bike fit so some adjustments, getting seat flatter and a couple of mil higher. Changed stem and a few other bits and pieces, don't ask me what I just ride it. Bike is even better now. Got the winter bike matched up to but thinking of getting a good turbo for winter.0
